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LOST...Season 6


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#1001 Scraps

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:00 PM

View PostDrFishfinder, on May 24 2010, 03:13 PM, said:

Man, I don't even feel remotely interested in television right now. It's back to being the vapid void it used to be.


What, no love for Dancing With The Stars?

#1002 DrDareustein

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:02 PM

View PostUB2SF, on May 24 2010, 03:46 PM, said:

I've been wanting to post something all day, but I was kind of scared off by the enthusiasm that has pervaded most of the posts today.  But hey, we're a community and differing views are accepted, right?  Even if it's "my fault" if I wasn't satisfied?   :blink:

Anyway, I was thoroughly frustrated by the finale and with the series in general.  I loved the characters and the acting was superior to anything I've ever seen on TV, but I can't help but feel that the time I invested in the show has been badly wasted.  As I've posted over the years, I grew weary of the impossible ratio of questions to answers, but I continued watching in the hope that the ratio would be reversed in the end.  But we are ultimately left with way more questions than answers.  I would like a cosmic refund of all the hours and neurons I spent crawling down plot-line worm-holes that ultimately served no purpose.  

Today I'm left with a profound feeling of symmetry between being a Lost viewer and being a Bills fan.  "They're all dead" = yet another losing season.

And the flaming will begin in 3...  2...  1...  <I BETTER PUSH THE BUTTON!>

i keep hearing this from the complainers, and each time I ask them to list some of the unanswered questions, and EACH TIME they either cant/dont or the questions they do list have been answered. at least to an extent that allows you to draw your own conclusion.

so, with that being said, lay some of the unanswered questions on us, and we'll work out some answers!  :blush:

#1003 ricojes

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:04 PM

View PostScraps, on May 24 2010, 04:00 PM, said:

What, no love for Dancing With The Stars?
Well, there you have it.  Lets get a petition to get "Kate" on the show!

#1004 John Adams

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:04 PM

View PostDrDankenstein, on May 24 2010, 04:02 PM, said:

i keep hearing this from the complainers, and each time I ask them to list some of the unanswered questions, and EACH TIME they either cant/dont or the questions they do list have been answered.

There are a bunch of unanswered questions in just this thread.

Here's a simple one: why women can't have babies...unless they're Claire or the twin's mom?

#1005 Andrew in CA

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:06 PM

View PostJohn Adams, on May 24 2010, 01:04 PM, said:

There are a bunch of unanswered questions in just this thread.

Here's a simple one: why women can't have babies...unless they're Claire or the twin's mom?
I thought it was because they were pregnant when they came to the island.  I don't think anyone who conceived on-island was able to have their baby on the island as well.

#1006 ricojes

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:08 PM

View PostAndrew in LA, on May 24 2010, 04:06 PM, said:

I thought it was because they were pregnant when they came to the island.  I don't think anyone who conceived on-island was able to have their baby on the island as well.
I believe that's correct. Sun got pregnant on the island, but delivered her baby off the island. Not being able to survive giving birth when conceiving on the island was the reason that Juliet was brought to the island...

#1007 DrFishfinder

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:21 PM

View Posttgreg99, on May 24 2010, 03:42 PM, said:

:worthy:

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long.  Also, hopefully I can answer some of John Adam's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...  :devil:

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.  

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...  

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.  

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.  

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode.  I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
  
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

And awesome stuff, as always, from everyone on here over the past few years! You guys rock!
Wow.

To know that the island was real, the characters were real and their lives on the island were real.....that means a LOT to me, as odd as that may sound.

The one I will miss the most is Sawyer. The quintessential bad ass (long) con man, who found his Juliette (pardon me, Will) and hence, some sort of peace with himself. Or at least to know that he could attain peace. What a blast it was to live vicariously thorough him.

You guys rock, TG. Thank you for 6 years of turning television programming inside out. It went from the aptly named "The Boob Tube" to something I never could have expected in my wildest dreams.

Please, I'm begging you all, hurry up and fill the void.

#1008 DrFishfinder

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:24 PM

View PostScraps, on May 24 2010, 04:00 PM, said:

What, no love for Dancing With The Stars?
I'd rather watch the Three Stooges.  :worthy:

Actually, I love those guys.

#1009 Cugalabanza

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:31 PM

View Postricojes, on May 24 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

awesome stuff, thank you.... :worthy:
Yes, thank you Tgreg.  That summary was really excellent!

#1010 DrDareustein

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:32 PM

View Posttgreg99, on May 24 2010, 04:20 PM, said:

Actually that was answered. The incident (the release of the electromagnitism that resulted in the Swan station being built) caused the infertility of the women on the island.

btw, thanks for that awesome post above. i hope you dont mind but i copied and pasted it into a note on FB for some of my friends who are struggling with the finale. i let them know that "someone" at Bad Robot wrote it, but didnt give any other details.

#1011 Kelly the Dog

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:37 PM

View PostDrFishfinder, on May 24 2010, 01:21 PM, said:

You guys rock, TG. Thank you for 6 years of turning television programming inside out. It went from the aptly named "The Boob Tube" to something I never could have expected in my wildest dreams.

Please, I'm begging you all, hurry up and fill the void.
There is a lot of good stuff on TV these days. Not as good or as compelling/complex as LOST, which was freakish, but a lot of the HBO, Showtime, AMC and network series are excellent shows, stories, characters and storytelling. Movie people used to look down on TV people as being lessers, but TV caught up fast in the last decade or more, while movies, at least IMO, have gone downhill, for various reasons.

#1012 stevewin

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:41 PM

One thing that seemed different than I thought - by "pulling the plug" and extinguishing the light, was the only ramification that the island would be destroyed?  I thought there was some connection to all life related to the light/energy being protected - ie. that if it went out all life would be extinguished, but that didn't seem to end up being the case at all.

My wife called the "they're all dead" ending when things first switched to the church...

BTW - did anyone notice that the scene when they went back to the cliff after the epic rain-drenched Flocke battle it was bone dry?

#1013 DrFishfinder

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:47 PM

View PostKelly the Fair and Balanced Dog, on May 24 2010, 04:37 PM, said:

There is a lot of good stuff on TV these days. Not as good or as compelling/complex as LOST, which was freakish, but a lot of the HBO, Showtime, AMC and network series are excellent shows, stories, characters and storytelling. Movie people used to look down on TV people as being lessers, but TV caught up fast in the last decade or more, while movies, at least IMO, have gone downhill, for various reasons.
There is better stuff on TV than there was during the Three's Company era, to be sure. Haven't seen much I would classify as "good stuff," but that's just me. Lost hit me in a spot that nothing else has come close to. Several spots, actually. I think you're right about movies. I just watched Legion, for example. An angel with a buzz-saw-mace thingy? I hurl in the producer's general direction.

#1014 Rico

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:55 PM

Thanks Tgreg!  :worthy:

#1015 Scraps

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:56 PM

View PostKelly the Fair and Balanced Dog, on May 24 2010, 04:37 PM, said:

There is a lot of good stuff on TV these days. Not as good or as compelling/complex as LOST, which was freakish, but a lot of the HBO, Showtime, AMC and network series are excellent shows, stories, characters and storytelling.

Like what?  Setting Lost aside, since that was in a category of its own, what excellent shows are there?

Network TV has been to much into cutting costs, leaving us with the likes of Dancing With The Stars, American Idol, Big Brother and a host of other "reality" shows that tell no story at all.  NBC put Leno on at 10 in part because his show was cheap to make compared with an ER, Hill Street Blues or Homicide.  24 is coming to an end.  Heroes ended up being rudderless and fizzled.  Flash Forward was a good concept but didn't catch on.  What shows are you talking about?

#1016 Scraps

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:05 PM

View Posttgreg99, on May 24 2010, 03:42 PM, said:

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it.

Desmond?  Libby?  Penny?

#1017 plenzmd1

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:05 PM

View PostScraps, on May 24 2010, 04:56 PM, said:

Like what?  Setting Lost aside, since that was in a category of its own, what excellent shows are there?

Network TV has been to much into cutting costs, leaving us with the likes of Dancing With The Stars, American Idol, Big Brother and a host of other "reality" shows that tell no story at all.  NBC put Leno on at 10 in part because his show was cheap to make compared with an ER, Hill Street Blues or Homicide.  24 is coming to an end.  Heroes ended up being rudderless and fizzled.  Flash Forward was a good concept but didn't catch on.  What shows are you talking about?
First thanks TGREG for the excellent rercap..thourghly enjoyed it!

In terms of stuff on TV, I find Treme to be great right now, but outside of that not one other show outside of PTI and or cooking shows going on the DVR.

#1018 Kelly the Dog

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:06 PM

View PostScraps, on May 24 2010, 01:56 PM, said:

Like what?  Setting Lost aside, since that was in a category of its own, what excellent shows are there?

Network TV has been to much into cutting costs, leaving us with the likes of Dancing With The Stars, American Idol, Big Brother and a host of other "reality" shows that tell no story at all.  NBC put Leno on at 10 in part because his show was cheap to make compared with an ER, Hill Street Blues or Homicide.  24 is coming to an end.  Heroes ended up being rudderless and fizzled.  Flash Forward was a good concept but didn't catch on.  What shows are you talking about?
Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Treme, The Tudors, Californication just off the top of my head are all really well written, directed and acted shows, IMO. Not so much the network shows except for a few. But I'm partial to the pay TV shows, and Mad Men. Even HBO's Hung, I think, is a sneakily good show. I'm not talking all-time great epic shows. But there is a lot of good stuff. Treme is fantastic, IMO.

#1019 udonkey

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:20 PM

View PostScraps, on May 24 2010, 04:56 PM, said:

Like what?  Setting Lost aside, since that was in a category of its own, what excellent shows are there?

For starters, I suggest Treme on HBO, which just showed episode 7 of its first 10 episode season.  Has already been picked up for a second season.  Completely different type show, but it sucked me in after ep. 1 and I'm a big fan.

Edit:  Didn't see plez's comment above.  That said, I second his recommendation.  If you have cable, check the On-Demand channels - you should be able to get caught up quickly.

#1020 John Adams

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 04:28 PM

Tgreg, excellent post: thanks for sharing.

I still have questions but as I said even in my first post, I am a fan of the characters getting their resolution and feeling that it's resolved. Also a huge fan of the entire Sideways world scenes...it was a poignant way to say goodbye to all the characters that we've gotten to know over the last 6 years. Again, can't say enough about how touching the Jin/Sun see Sawyer scene was.

The evil plug is not something I'll ever particularly enjoy in the LOST plot. Same with the MIB/Jacob/CJ plotline.