[Joe In Macungie]

gringo starr, on Jul 28 2010, 10:43 AM, said:

Don't worry. You have exactly the same amount of credibility here as you have ever had, or ever will.

<crowd chant>

Gringo! Gringo! Gringo!

</crowd chant>

[Doc]

DC Tom, on Jul 27 2010, 11:05 PM, said:

Nicely mathematical. :blink:



Obviously. Otherwise you wouldn't be making statements like "and wish to get there in some human lifespan timeframe(s), you'd need to find a way to travel MUCH faster than the SOL." Because, as you said (but clearly don't understand), time is relative.

Mathematically and theoretically, traveling at the SOL could be considered "time travel." As a practical matter (and that's how I'm approaching things, and how I approached the possible discovery of Earth-like planets, when I said that even if we could, we'd probably die-off before achieving the tech to get to there), only traveling from Earth and back should be considered "time travel," since one has a frame of reference. And that's how the classic theory/example has been explained, i.e. someone leaving Earth for 3 years, coming back and many, many more years have passed. The idea being to see the future of Earth. When traveling to a distant planet, you're not looking to see its future, just get there.

Also as a practical matter, if a spaceship were built that could achieve any significant velocity, it would take generations to get to wherever you wanted to go. But fuel and food sources are not infinite. I chose several human lifetime timespans because that's probably the limit of how much fuel/food a spaceship could carry. Maybe it's longer, who knows? But even though you're traveling at the SOL, you're still aging (like those 3 years in the example above). Again, theoretically. And then there are issues of how many people you take, since it would be a one-say trip to get off a dying Earth.

[gringo starr]

Mathematically, theoretically, psychologically, philosophically and actually, me sitting in my chair looking at my shoes while the clock ticks from 12:42 to 12:43 could be considered time travel.

[Fan in San Diego]

Booster4324, on Jul 27 2010, 07:00 PM, said:

So you doubt it is possible in a centuries+ time frame? Honest question.

I have no clue about light speed travel if it's even possible. It would be cool if possible!

[DC Tom]

Doc, on Jul 28 2010, 12:30 PM, said:

Mathematically and theoretically, traveling at the SOL could be considered "time travel." As a practical matter (and that's how I'm approaching things, and how I approached the possible discovery of Earth-like planets, when I said that even if we could, we'd probably die-off before achieving the tech to get to there), only traveling from Earth and back should be considered "time travel," since one has a frame of reference. And that's how the classic theory/example has been explained, i.e. someone leaving Earth for 3 years, coming back and many, many more years have passed. The idea being to see the future of Earth. When traveling to a distant planet, you're not looking to see its future, just get there.

Also as a practical matter, if a spaceship were built that could achieve any significant velocity, it would take generations to get to wherever you wanted to go. But fuel and food sources are not infinite. I chose several human lifetime timespans because that's probably the limit of how much fuel/food a spaceship could carry. Maybe it's longer, who knows? But even though you're traveling at the SOL, you're still aging (like those 3 years in the example above). Again, theoretically. And then there are issues of how many people you take, since it would be a one-say trip to get off a dying Earth.

Do you want me to catalog ALL the mistakes in the above, or do you want to try to figure them out yourself?

Because if you want me to do it, it'll have to wait until later. But I'll start by pointing out that you have no understanding of the idea of "frame of reference". You can start by pondering that (hint: it's not "the Earth".)

[Doc]

DC Tom, on Jul 28 2010, 01:28 PM, said:

Do you want me to catalog ALL the mistakes in the above, or do you want to try to figure them out yourself?

Because if you want me to do it, it'll have to wait until later. But I'll start by pointing out that you have no understanding of the idea of "frame of reference". You can start by pondering that (hint: it's not "the Earth".)

Take all the time you need and enlighten me Tom. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm too dumb to understand Einstein's theory of general relativity.

[LanaK6]

ExiledInIllinois, on Jul 27 2010, 09:38 PM, said:

New car! :censored: I thought you were still driving that late model Corolla that has a zillion years on it... You know what the eco/carbon-footprint is on that (new car) bad boy?... :blink:

Yeah, and that RELIABLE, old Corolla is still running strong! :censored: Family member is using it for a couple of years til they can afford a new car.

You will probably freak out but the new car is also a Toyota! <_<

[DC Tom]

Doc, on Jul 28 2010, 01:02 PM, said:

Take all the time you need and enlighten me Tom. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm too dumb to understand Einstein's theory of general relativity.

And yet, you're arguing about it with a physicist. :blink:

[Doc]

DC Tom, on Jul 28 2010, 07:26 PM, said:

And yet, you're arguing about it with a physicist. :censored:

Didn't know that. But I shoulda figured. :blink:

And since I stepped in it, give me an edumication. While I don't believe we'll achieve interstellar travel, it doesn't mean I'm not fascinated by the concept.

[LeviF91]

Doc, on Jul 28 2010, 08:07 PM, said:

Didn't know that. But I shoulda figured. :blink:

And since I stepped in it, give me an edumication. While I don't believe we'll achieve interstellar travel, it doesn't mean I'm not fascinated by the concept.

Good luck there. Tom is as forthcoming with knowledge that can further your mind as he is with links.

[BillsRUs]

Well....currently I live 8 hours in the future. Anything you need to know??? I will be traveling back in time from my past( to your present) sometime next week.
:sick:

[Just Jack]

BillsRUs, on Jul 28 2010, 11:08 PM, said:

Well....currently I live 8 hours in the future. Anything you need to know??? I will be traveling back in time from my past( to your present) sometime next week.
:sick:

Just 8 hours? Kiwi Bills Fan is a whole day in the future.

[ExiledInIllinois]

LanaK6, on Jul 28 2010, 05:46 PM, said:

Yeah, and that RELIABLE, old Corolla is still running strong! :nana: Family member is using it for a couple of years til they can afford a new car.

You will probably freak out but the new car is also a Toyota! :P

:beer: :D

No not at all (red)! I would buy a Toyota... Really...

[K-9]

This discussion reminds me of something Woody Allen said years ago. There could be aliens out there that may be as much as twenty seconds more advanced than we are.

[DrFishfinder]

gringo starr, on Jul 28 2010, 12:44 PM, said:

Mathematically, theoretically, psychologically, philosophically and actually, me sitting in my chair looking at my shoes while the clock ticks from 12:42 to 12:43 could be considered time travel.

Or your lunch break.

You really should eat something instead of staring at your shoes.

[DrFishfinder]

K-9, on Jul 29 2010, 03:47 PM, said:

This discussion reminds me of something Woody Allen said years ago. There could be aliens out there that may be as much as twenty seconds more advanced than we are.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

Hobbes