29 replies to this topic

[vegas55]

There are certain players who have mad athletic talent but come up small in the biggest moments. They can be valuable contributors to a teams success, but put them in those big moments and disaster follows. Ronnie Harmon was a perfect example. From his 5 fumbles in the Rose Bowl to his dropped TD pass in the Cleveland playoff game, these are players that will break your heart, will choke in the biggest moments. Mckelvin certainly appears to be in that category. Lets go back to the Monday night New England game, where, on the verge of a huge upset victory, he fumbles the kickoff and loses the game. Whats often overlooked is that Mckelvin also fumbled the previous kickoff that game, but the Bills recovered.  So in that huge moment, with a huge upset win on the national stage, he fumbles two consecutive kickoffs.
And this Sunday against Pittsburg, with a wide open field, this most gifted and coordinated of athletes trips over his teamates legs. With all the room in the world
Another commonality with these guys is that they appear to be oblivious to their own hall of fame choking. Harmon never understood the fuss over his dropped pass, and Mckelvin, after stumbling the game away, comes off the field pounding his chest in triumph.

But you live with these guys because on a game by game basis, they are valuable contributors because of their natural ability. But please, in those big moments, keep them away from the ball!!

[KD in CT]

Wasn't Harmon getting paid for all those Rose Bowl fumbles?

[vegas55]

vegas55, on 02 December 2010 - 04:56 PM, said:

There are certain players who have mad athletic talent but come up small in the biggest moments. They can be valuable contributors to a teams success, but put them in those big moments and disaster follows. Ronnie Harmon was a perfect example. From his 5 fumbles in the Rose Bowl to his dropped TD pass in the Cleveland playoff game, these are players that will break your heart, will choke in the biggest moments. Mckelvin certainly appears to be in that category. Lets go back to the Monday night New England game, where, on the verge of a huge upset victory, he fumbles the kickoff and loses the game. Whats often overlooked is that Mckelvin also fumbled the previous kickoff that game, but the Bills recovered.  So in that huge moment, with a huge upset win on the national stage, he fumbles two consecutive kickoffs.
And this Sunday against Pittsburg, with a wide open field, this most gifted and coordinated of athletes trips over his teamates legs. With all the room in the world
Another commonality with these guys is that they appear to be oblivious to their own hall of fame choking. Harmon never understood the fuss over his dropped pass, and Mckelvin, after stumbling the game away, comes off the field pounding his chest in triumph.

But you live with these guys because on a game by game basis, they are valuable contributors because of their natural ability. But please, in those big moments, keep them away from the ball!!

And of course I forgot to mention that after stumbling the game away, he was given one more oppurtunity in overtime - and fumbled the punt away

[Mr_Blizzard]

vegas55, on 02 December 2010 - 04:56 PM, said:

There are certain players who have mad athletic talent but come up small in the biggest moments. They can be valuable contributors to a teams success, but put them in those big moments and disaster follows. Ronnie Harmon was a perfect example. From his 5 fumbles in the Rose Bowl to his dropped TD pass in the Cleveland playoff game, these are players that will break your heart, will choke in the biggest moments. Mckelvin certainly appears to be in that category. Lets go back to the Monday night New England game, where, on the verge of a huge upset victory, he fumbles the kickoff and loses the game. Whats often overlooked is that Mckelvin also fumbled the previous kickoff that game, but the Bills recovered.  So in that huge moment, with a huge upset win on the national stage, he fumbles two consecutive kickoffs.
And this Sunday against Pittsburg, with a wide open field, this most gifted and coordinated of athletes trips over his teamates legs. With all the room in the world
Another commonality with these guys is that they appear to be oblivious to their own hall of fame choking. Harmon never understood the fuss over his dropped pass, and Mckelvin, after stumbling the game away, comes off the field pounding his chest in triumph.

But you live with these guys because on a game by game basis, they are valuable contributors because of their natural ability. But please, in those big moments, keep them away from the ball!!

So why are we beating up McKelvin?

[vegas55]

Mr_Blizzard, on 02 December 2010 - 05:01 PM, said:

So why are we beating up McKelvin?

Nobody is beating up Mckelvin, its a fair observation of his performance in big moments. These are not amateurs, they are professionals, making huge bucks, and its certainly okay to critique their performance.

[DrDareustein]

funny that someone named "vegas" would start a Harmon thread.

Wasnt it discovered, or rumored, that his Rose Bowl performance and his Bills dropped pass performance was due to gambling problems??

KD in CT, on 02 December 2010 - 04:58 PM, said:

Wasn't Harmon getting paid for all those Rose Bowl fumbles?

thats what I remember hearing too...

Im sure we'll never really know.

[Spun]

I still think he is the best returner.  

Even after the trip, a couple of first downs and a field goal, bye-bye dish rags.

Harmon's drop against the Browns made me violent.  Norwood's miss simply stunned me and shut me up for about five hours.  Then came the nightmares.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think Vegas raises a valid point. It's not beating up on McKelvin IMO…this is a pivotal year for him and it's fair to discuss where he is in his career.

To sharpen that point, McKelvin was taken 11th overall in the 2008 draft. This is his 3rd season in the NFL.

The other top corners in that draft were Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Aquib Talib.

Rodgers-Cromartie was drafted 16th overall and has shown flashes of brilliance. He has 11 career interceptions.

Talib was drafted 20th overall and is an unbelievable talent…who could end up on the police blotter at any moment. He has 15 career interceptions.

McKelvin has also shown flashes of brilliance…but also shows flashes of not having a very good football IQ…in the form of numerous crucial fumbles. In 18 career starts, he has 2 career interceptions (2 more wiped out by penalty, one of them being a long TD return).

In my view, McKelvin really needs to step it up or he'll be viewed as one of the more recent Bills' draft blunders.

[qdawg in philly]

San Jose Bills Fan, on 02 December 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:

I think Vegas raises a valid point. It's not beating up on McKelvin IMO…this is a pivotal year for him and it's fair to discuss where he is in his career.

To sharpen that point, McKelvin was taken 11th overall in the 2008 draft. This is his 3rd season in the NFL.

The other top corners in that draft were Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Aquib Talib.

Rodgers-Cromartie was drafted 16th overall and has shown flashes of brilliance. He has 11 career interceptions.

Talib was drafted 20th overall and is an unbelievable talent…who could end up on the police blotter at any moment. He has 15 career interceptions.

McKelvin has also shown flashes of brilliance…but also shows flashes of not having a very good football IQ…in the form of numerous crucial fumbles. In 18 career starts, he has 2 career interceptions (2 more wiped out by penalty, one of them being a long TD return).

In my view, McKelvin really needs to step it up or he'll be viewed as one of the more recent Bills' draft blunders.

I agree 100%! Not only was he drafted 11th! He was rated as the best cb in that draft! He has not lived up to it! He is a great return guy, but his corner play is barely average to me! And the two other corners you compared him with just proves my point and yours!

[Sisyphean Bills]

http://ncaafootball....n-for-hawkeyes/

[Simon]

If you have any understanding of the nuances of corner play, you should rewatch McKelvin's performance during the 4th quarter of the win over the Lions. He was big money during crunch time and a huge factor in that win.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Simon, on 02 December 2010 - 11:35 PM, said:

If you have any understanding of the nuances of corner play, you should rewatch McKelvin's performance during the 4th quarter of the win over the Lions. He was big money during crunch time and a huge factor in that win.

Perhaps, Simon. But my point (and I think many others agree) is that in nearly three years, he has not lived up to his draft position.

Furthermore, in his most recent game he committed at least one and maybe two big errors at crunch time.

People readily admit he has show in flashes but I'd actually like to see him turn the corner and become a solid, consistent pro worthy of his draft position. He's not the player Jabbari Greer was and he's not yet the best cornerback on his own team…although I sure hope he is soon.

[bowery4]

San Jose Bills Fan, on 03 December 2010 - 12:55 AM, said:

Perhaps, Simon. But my point (and I think many others agree) is that in nearly three years, he has not lived up to his draft position.

Furthermore, in his most recent game he committed at least one and maybe two big errors at crunch time.

People readily admit he has show in flashes but I'd actually like to see him turn the corner and become a solid, consistent pro worthy of his draft position. He's not the player Jabbari Greer was and he's not yet the best cornerback on his own team…although I sure hope he is soon.

One guy who never made a lot of interceptions but still is a great player comes to mind and we are playing his team this week.

[billsfan89]

McKelvin is still a young guy and yeah he has had some heart breaking moments BUT until the Bills make the playoffs or play games in the last 2-3 weeks of the season that are meaningful towards a playoff push then he hasn't really ever played in a "big" game his whole career with the Bills.

[BillsPhan]

vegas55, on 02 December 2010 - 04:56 PM, said:

There are certain players who have mad athletic talent but come up small in the biggest moments. They can be valuable contributors to a teams success, but put them in those big moments and disaster follows. Ronnie Harmon was a perfect example. From his 5 fumbles in the Rose Bowl to his dropped TD pass in the Cleveland playoff game, these are players that will break your heart, will choke in the biggest moments. Mckelvin certainly appears to be in that category. Lets go back to the Monday night New England game, where, on the verge of a huge upset victory, he fumbles the kickoff and loses the game. Whats often overlooked is that Mckelvin also fumbled the previous kickoff that game, but the Bills recovered.  So in that huge moment, with a huge upset win on the national stage, he fumbles two consecutive kickoffs.
And this Sunday against Pittsburg, with a wide open field, this most gifted and coordinated of athletes trips over his teamates legs. With all the room in the world
Another commonality with these guys is that they appear to be oblivious to their own hall of fame choking. Harmon never understood the fuss over his dropped pass, and Mckelvin, after stumbling the game away, comes off the field pounding his chest in triumph.

But you live with these guys because on a game by game basis, they are valuable contributors because of their natural ability. But please, in those big moments, keep them away from the ball!!

I think that's a fair comparison, although it seems that Leodis has had many more gaffs then poor Ronnie, who was never the same after he dropped that pass. (I don't think he came back to the Bills for the 1990 season, did he?)  Plus, you are right about McKelvin's stupid cocky reaction after he allowed Moats to tackle him 50 yards away from a wide open end zone that would have ended the game just as OT started.  Because on this football team, getting pumped up about a 45 yard return that was easily a 95 TD return if not for tripping over his own guy is wrong on two counts.  Obviously, he should have been more pissed then happy himself.  And secondly, Stevie was on the bench waiting for his own chance to inexplicably refuse to win the game for the Bills.  If ever there was a football team in the NFL that should never celebrate until the obese lady screams, it is this Buffalo Bills bunch!!

[Mark Vader]

San Jose Bills Fan, on 03 December 2010 - 12:55 AM, said:

Perhaps, Simon. But my point (and I think many others agree) is that in nearly three years, he has not lived up to his draft position.

Furthermore, in his most recent game he committed at least one and maybe two big errors at crunch time.

People readily admit he has show in flashes but I'd actually like to see him turn the corner and become a solid, consistent pro worthy of his draft position. He's not the player Jabbari Greer was and he's not yet the best cornerback on his own team…although I sure hope he is soon.

This is the key statement you make, SJ. McKelvin was injured last year, very early in the season, and that I think was a major blow to his development. McKelvin has shown flashes of brilliance, and I think he will live up to the hype when he was drafted. Yes Rodgers-Cromartie, Talib and also Antoine Cason have posted better numbers as far as INT's go, but McKelvin has shown good cover skills as well.

[JPS]

Put this guy behind a pass rush and he'd have 7-10 picks with 2 or 3 TDs.  I really think he's that talented. If they build that front 7 over the next 2 years, McKelvin should be a pro bowler.

On a completely unrelated note, he's one of the worst interviews in all of sports. So bad that Howard Stern turned one into a pretty funny bit. You can barely understand the guy.

And every time I hear "Ronnie Harmon", I just can't forget Paul Maguire's WTF way of saying "Ronnie Harmon!!?".

[Albany,n.y.]

BillsPhan, on 03 December 2010 - 02:25 AM, said:

I think that's a fair comparison, although it seems that Leodis has had many more gaffs then poor Ronnie, who was never the same after he dropped that pass. (I don't think he came back to the Bills for the 1990 season, did he?)  

He was better after he left the Bills, signing with SD as a plan B free agent.  He became one of the leagues most feared receiving RBs with SD.  Here's his career stats:

http://www.nfl.com/p...le?id=HAR215150

[stony]

San Jose Bills Fan, on 02 December 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:

I think Vegas raises a valid point. It's not beating up on McKelvin IMO…this is a pivotal year for him and it's fair to discuss where he is in his career.

To sharpen that point, McKelvin was taken 11th overall in the 2008 draft. This is his 3rd season in the NFL.

The other top corners in that draft were Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Aquib Talib.

Rodgers-Cromartie was drafted 16th overall and has shown flashes of brilliance. He has 11 career interceptions.

Talib was drafted 20th overall and is an unbelievable talent…who could end up on the police blotter at any moment. He has 15 career interceptions.

McKelvin has also shown flashes of brilliance…but also shows flashes of not having a very good football IQ…in the form of numerous crucial fumbles. In 18 career starts, he has 2 career interceptions (2 more wiped out by penalty, one of them being a long TD return).

In my view, McKelvin really needs to step it up or he'll be viewed as one of the more recent Bills' draft blunders.

Don't forget Mike Jenkins, who's been benched by the Cowboys. So at least we got that going for us.

Also, and it appears by the way this thread is going that I'll be in the minority, I don't blame Leodis for tripping over Moats. He's going full speed and if you look, Moats is kind of just wandering around at 1/2 speed looking for someone to block. When he sees Leodis, he starts towards someone that is right in the path of where Leodis is going.

[papazoid]

i like McKelvin ALOT...sure he's had a few disaster plays....but so has most other players....i think he is playing very well at corner and i expect him to get better.....he has special return skills.....he has huge upside.