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The Offensive Line Doesn't Matter


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#1 Rob's House

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:47 AM

A popular myth that bounces around here from time to time is that the offensive line isn't important because it's really the QB that makes the difference. Certainly a good QB can sometimes mask an offensive line's deficiencies, just as sometimes the ugly guy gets the girl or the 120 lb guy beats up the 220 lb guy. But usually the ugly guy watches the hot girl make out with the pretty boy, the 220 lb guy pounds the 120 lb guy's face, and the QB behind the pourous O-line gets his ass handed to him. Let's take a few arguments one by one:

1. A great O-line doesn't matter, but a strong pass rush can make all the difference.  :blink: So a great pass rusher can make all the difference but a guy who can nullify that pass rusher's impact is a waste? If you can't see the internal inconsistency in that statement I'm sure I can't help you.

2. But Aaron Rogers and Big Ben had success without great lines. Not only are those 2 of the most well equipped QBs to play behind a bad line, (Both are fairly mobile, Ben is had to bring down, and Rogers has a quick release and plays in a quick release offense) their teams have suffered when their linemen have been injured. Both teams have invested heavily in O-line in recent years for that very reason. You don't see Brees or Brady playing behind scrubs.

3. But the teams with the best LTs like the Dolphins and Browns suck. Right, but LT is one position on a line of 5 players. No one in the history of the world [who doesn't have a chronic drooling problem] has ever claimed that a good LT is a panacea. An LT can't make a QB accurate or get a WR open. However he can stop a pass rusher from taking the QBs head off before the play develops.

4. But look at what round SB LTs have been taken. Look at what round lots of SB positions have been drafted. Justin Tuck was drafted in the 3rd and Osi Umenyiora in the 2nd. Victor Cruz and Wes Welker went undrafted. Jared Allen wasn't in the SB but he's the best pass rusher in the game and he was taken in the 4th. Good teams usually have good offensive lines regardless of where their LT was drafted.

#2 Lurker

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:20 PM

View PostRob, on 18 March 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Good teams usually have good offensive lines regardless of where their LT was drafted.
Good OL depth is the key.  Having backups that can capabably fill in without having to adjust the game plan when a starter goes down.  

The Bills need at least 2 more guys--that hopefully will come in this draft (regardless of round taken)--that can improve on  the group we have now.

#3 spartacus

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostLurker, on 18 March 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Good OL depth is the key.  Having backups that can capabably fill in without having to adjust the game plan when a starter goes down.  

The Bills need at least 2 more guys--that hopefully will come in this draft (regardless of round taken)--that can improve on  the group we have now.

At a minimum the Bills need an NFL caliber starting LT and a quality backup C/G due to the uncertainty about Wood

#4 QCity

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:27 PM

Just look at last season. When Bell and Wood went down, the offense started to look like a circus.

Edited by QCity, 18 March 2012 - 12:27 PM.


#5 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:27 PM

The Bills should be all set on the interior with Levitre, Wood, and Urbik, plus Rinehart and Colin Brown.

That's a lot of talent and good depth.

#6 John Cocktosten

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostRob, on 18 March 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

A popular myth that bounces around here from time to time is that the offensive line isn't important because it's really the QB that makes the difference. Certainly a good QB can sometimes mask an offensive line's deficiencies, just as sometimes the ugly guy gets the girl or the 120 lb guy beats up the 220 lb guy. But usually the ugly guy watches the hot girl make out with the pretty boy, the 220 lb guy pounds the 120 lb guy's face, and the QB behind the pourous O-line gets his ass handed to him. Let's take a few arguments one by one:

1. A great O-line doesn't matter, but a strong pass rush can make all the difference.  :blink: So a great pass rusher can make all the difference but a guy who can nullify that pass rusher's impact is a waste? If you can't see the internal inconsistency in that statement I'm sure I can't help you.

2. But Aaron Rogers and Big Ben had success without great lines. Not only are those 2 of the most well equipped QBs to play behind a bad line, (Both are fairly mobile, Ben is had to bring down, and Rogers has a quick release and plays in a quick release offense) their teams have suffered when their linemen have been injured. Both teams have invested heavily in O-line in recent years for that very reason. You don't see Brees or Brady playing behind scrubs.

3. But the teams with the best LTs like the Dolphins and Browns suck. Right, but LT is one position on a line of 5 players. No one in the history of the world [who doesn't have a chronic drooling problem] has ever claimed that a good LT is a panacea. An LT can't make a QB accurate or get a WR open. However he can stop a pass rusher from taking the QBs head off before the play develops.

4. But look at what round SB LTs have been taken. Look at what round lots of SB positions have been drafted. Justin Tuck was drafted in the 3rd and Osi Umenyiora in the 2nd. Victor Cruz and Wes Welker went undrafted. Jared Allen wasn't in the SB but he's the best pass rusher in the game and he was taken in the 4th. Good teams usually have good offensive lines regardless of where their LT was drafted.

There are 700 threads regarding this topic already.

#7 Kelly the Dog

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:30 PM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 18 March 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

There are 700 threads regarding this topic already.
True. But this is the only brand new thread on the same topic.

#8 Whitewalker Merriman

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:31 PM

Ok, good. I was worried for a moment that this wasn't sarcasm.

That said, while I agree that we need someone to replace Bell if he leaves and our depth needs serious work, I don't know if this translates into a 1st round draft pick. Certainly some picks somewhere, but the O-line we have did better than anyone expected last year. Part of it was doubtless part of the style of offense we played, but they didn't do half bad.

#9 DefenseWinzChampionshipz

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:39 PM

I haven't heard about Bell signing anywhere so my guess is that when Nix said that they offered him a certain amount, that Bell hasn't heard a better offer yet maybe? Either way it wouldn't hurt to get him back and still draft a LT.

#10 Rob's House

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 18 March 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

There are 700 threads regarding this topic already.
I know, I consolidated all of them. Think of it as an op/ed you guys get to comment on.

View PostDefenseWinzChampionshipz, on 18 March 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

I haven't heard about Bell signing anywhere so my guess is that when Nix said that they offered him a certain amount, that Bell hasn't heard a better offer yet maybe? Either way it wouldn't hurt to get him back and still draft a LT.
What I'm curious about is that he didn't even provide a counter offer. I'm not familiar with the internal workings so maybe that's just the way it goes, but that seems kind of like giving the team the proverbial middle finger. Am I wrong?

Edited by Rob's House, 18 March 2012 - 12:41 PM.


#11 DefenseWinzChampionshipz

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:53 PM

View PostRob, on 18 March 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I know, I consolidated all of them. Think of it as an op/ed you guys get to comment on.


What I'm curious about is that he didn't even provide a counter offer. I'm not familiar with the internal workings so maybe that's just the way it goes, but that seems kind of like giving the team the proverbial middle finger. Am I wrong?


Yeah that does sound like a F U to me also but in the interview he had at locker clean out day he said somewhere along the lines of, This is my first time being a free agent. I love Buffalo. I know it's a process but I want it to be over with already and it didn't even start yet. So I'm guessing he was nervous about free agency and really was sincere about coming back to Buffalo and then maybe ended up having fun in free agency? I don't know. The guy should have been retained before the season ended IMO and then if Buffalo didn't want him, we could have traded him for a 6th rounder at least. In free agency teams are ALWAYS looking for a LT. Injury prone or not I believe he would at least be worth THAT much.

Nix had a couple at bats in the offseason. He hit a triple with re-signing Stevie. Then came up to bat and hit a double by getting Chandler back which led to a scoring run. Then hit a single with the re-signing of Morrison which has guys at 1st and 3rd. Then hit another single with the tenders of Rhinehart and Urbik which let to another score and struck out by not getting Bell back with guys at 1st and 2nd. But by signing Mario he hit a homerun which led to 3 scores. So at 6 bats he has 5 hits, a homerun, a triple, a double and two singles with 5 RBI's and one strike out. Not too bad if you ask me. OH and by the way. I hate baseball... It was the best way to explain it though.

Edited by DefenseWinzChampionshipz, 18 March 2012 - 01:05 PM.


#12 ndirish1978

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:22 PM

View PostRob, on 18 March 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

A popular myth that bounces around here from time to time is that the offensive line isn't important because it's really the QB that makes the difference. Certainly a good QB can sometimes mask an offensive line's deficiencies, just as sometimes the ugly guy gets the girl or the 120 lb guy beats up the 220 lb guy. But usually the ugly guy watches the hot girl make out with the pretty boy, the 220 lb guy pounds the 120 lb guy's face, and the QB behind the pourous O-line gets his ass handed to him. Let's take a few arguments one by one:

1. A great O-line doesn't matter, but a strong pass rush can make all the difference.  :blink: So a great pass rusher can make all the difference but a guy who can nullify that pass rusher's impact is a waste? If you can't see the internal inconsistency in that statement I'm sure I can't help you.

2. But Aaron Rogers and Big Ben had success without great lines. Not only are those 2 of the most well equipped QBs to play behind a bad line, (Both are fairly mobile, Ben is had to bring down, and Rogers has a quick release and plays in a quick release offense) their teams have suffered when their linemen have been injured. Both teams have invested heavily in O-line in recent years for that very reason. You don't see Brees or Brady playing behind scrubs.

3. But the teams with the best LTs like the Dolphins and Browns suck. Right, but LT is one position on a line of 5 players. No one in the history of the world [who doesn't have a chronic drooling problem] has ever claimed that a good LT is a panacea. An LT can't make a QB accurate or get a WR open. However he can stop a pass rusher from taking the QBs head off before the play develops.

4. But look at what round SB LTs have been taken. Look at what round lots of SB positions have been drafted. Justin Tuck was drafted in the 3rd and Osi Umenyiora in the 2nd. Victor Cruz and Wes Welker went undrafted. Jared Allen wasn't in the SB but he's the best pass rusher in the game and he was taken in the 4th. Good teams usually have good offensive lines regardless of where their LT was drafted.

The fact that you sit around and watch this happens worries me  :huh:

Edited by ndirish1978, 18 March 2012 - 01:23 PM.


#13 JPS

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostSan Jose Bills Fan, on 18 March 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

The Bills should be all set on the interior with Levitre, Wood, and Urbik, plus Rinehart and Colin Brown.

That's a lot of talent and good depth.
Who is Colin Brown? Seriously.  I have hopes for an unknown guy on the roster named Jake Vermiglio, but that's for personal reasons. I have no idea how good his is. I know he's huge and nimble.  

Is Brown good enough to be the man in case Wood becomes a chronic injury guy.

Edited by JPS, 18 March 2012 - 01:37 PM.


#14 BILLriant

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostDefenseWinzChampionshipz, on 18 March 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

I haven't heard about Bell signing anywhere so my guess is that when Nix said that they offered him a certain amount, that Bell hasn't heard a better offer yet maybe? Either way it wouldn't hurt to get him back and still draft a LT.

agreed... Bell can compete with the new guy at LT and Hairston can focus on RT behind Pears. When and If Bell gets hurt Hairston can back up both, or play LT if the new guy isnt ready or if he is hurt to. Worst case scenario we will have some good depth at tackle.

Bell is to injury prone to be relied on, which is why he is not being offered starting LT money anywhere.

#15 #34fan

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:22 PM

So when my wife says that size doesn't matter, she...... Aww man!

#16 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:51 PM

View PostJPS, on 18 March 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Who is Colin Brown? Seriously.  I have hopes for an unknown guy on the roster named Jake Vermiglio, but that's for personal reasons. I have no idea how good his is. I know he's huge and nimble.  

Is Brown good enough to be the man in case Wood becomes a chronic injury guy.
Colin Brown is a 3rd year player out of Missouri.

He's a former 5th round pick of the Kansas City Chiefs. He's 6'7" and 328 pounds and has played tackle throughout most of his career.

Due to injuries to the O-line at season's end, he started at center for the week 17 game against New England and played very well.



#17 Dragonborn10

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:24 AM

Bell is worth bringing back only if his deal does not hamper the ability to resign Levitre.  Regardless of what they do with Bell, Jonathan Martin #10.

#18 Mr. WEO

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:28 AM

View PostRob, on 18 March 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:


1. A great O-line doesn't matter, but a strong pass rush can make all the difference.  :blink: So a great pass rusher can make all the difference but a guy who can nullify that pass rusher's impact is a waste?


3. But the teams with the best LTs like the Dolphins and Browns suck../b] Right, but LT is one position on a line of 5 players

"If you can't see the internal inconsistency in that statement I'm sure I can't help you."

Edited by Mr. WEO, 19 March 2012 - 06:31 AM.


#19 Rob's House

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:27 AM

View PostMr. WEO, on 19 March 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

"If you can't see the internal inconsistency in that statement I'm sure I can't help you."
If only that was as clever as you think it is.

#20 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:36 AM

Rob, all three of your assertions come as a great relief.