41 replies to this topic

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

MarkyMannn, on 17 April 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I did not read the article.  But with the numbers you are posting, then why renovate RWS?  If we were to put $150m into renovation, just go new.

there was a pretty good article yesterday in the Buffalo News.

Quote

Brandon said the Bills and Populous did a thorough investigation of three stadium options: building a new stadium, "retrofitting" the current stadium and renovating it.

on the new stadium concept...

Quote

"When we looked at the new stadium, we rejected the concept for several reasons," Brandon said. "New stadiums cost anywhere from $800 million and north. What's usually involved is substantial public and fan participations, such as PSLs."

and the "retrofit"

Quote

"In the retrofit, you're looking at $450 million to $500 million," Brandon said. "You're looking at huge public funds and bonds. Then you're looking again at PSLs and much higher ticket prices. We don't believe there's sufficient public support or sufficient fan interest in making that kind of investment."

Edited by In-A-Gadda-Levitre, 17 April 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[BuffaloWest]

ACor58, on 17 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Such a tough situation, especially after the Twins (66%) and the University of Minnesota (48%) got a publiclly financed stadium. It's not like they are giving Zygi Wilf a choice. They are basically telling him to leave if he can find a better deal.
I feel bad for the Vikings fans if they lose the team, no city deserves to lose their team.

Agree...Vikings have great tradition and should not leave Minneapolis. It is a very good city and they support the team...in fact sorry Buffalo, but it is a much bigger, and nicer city than Buffalo is. If they leave-there is a chance-a good one-they get a team later which puts us in jeopardy once again...

[ACor58]

PromoTheRobot, on 17 April 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

And apparently that was worth spending tax money on, but not the Vikings.

PTR

Welcome to the wonderful world of politics.

[dhg]

PromoTheRobot, on 17 April 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Except that the talk was for L.A. to get TWO teams!  One in each conference.  Easier to pay off a 2 Billion dollar stadium with two teams.  I guess the NFC is taken care of.

PTR

Then why not just put 2 expansion teams there and call it a day?

[Captain Hindsight]

PromoTheRobot, on 17 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Why didn't Minny build a shared facility when they built the U of M a new stadium?

PTR

Thats what they should have done.

Youre welcome  

[dpberr]

The NFL's preoccupation with Los Angeles will end up being yet another failure.

It's not like it's been tried.  Several times.

It's awful that a storied, longtime franchise may have to pack up the moving vans.  I'd rather contract than expand.  Would we really miss Jacksonville?  Tampa Bay?

I think all the major sporting leagues would benefit from contraction.

[Billshank Redemption]

I agree, I think that 32 really is the max you can go. There is absolutely no reason to try and put a franchise overseas or over the border for that matter. The NFL makes so much freaking money its hard to quantify why they want to torture fans even more. It is the greatest league in the world yet they think L.A is going to put it over the top which I disagree with firmly. L.A fans unlike N.Y.C fans are not loyal whatsoever. They don't care exhibit a. Kings. Its just how they are its cool to be winning its not to lose. L.A is NOT a good sports town no matter the population! If they want a team give them one where the fans don't care like Tampa or Jacksonville, even S.D where the team is just 1.5 hours away but why on earth move a team cross country completely. I actually don't know what I would do.

[Beerball]

PromoTheRobot, on 17 April 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

And apparently that was worth spending tax money on, but not the Vikings.

PTR

I'd have to say it is moreso than a private entity.

[nucci]

Billshank Redemption, on 17 April 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I agree, I think that 32 really is the max you can go. There is absolutely no reason to try and put a franchise overseas or over the border for that matter. The NFL makes so much freaking money its hard to quantify why they want to torture fans even more. It is the greatest league in the world yet they think L.A is going to put it over the top which I disagree with firmly. L.A fans unlike N.Y.C fans are not loyal whatsoever. They don't care exhibit a. Kings. Its just how they are its cool to be winning its not to lose. L.A is NOT a good sports town no matter the population! If they want a team give them one where the fans don't care like Tampa or Jacksonville, even S.D where the team is just 1.5 hours away but why on earth move a team cross country completely. I actually don't know what I would do.

Agreed but it's more about TV money. If there are two teams in the LA market the league can ask the networks for more money. But like you say they make so much now.

[dpberr]

I only know of Los Angeles in the brief time I lived there in the halcyon late 1970s.  My dad and I attended what turned out to be one of the last Rams games in the Coliseum before the shipped out to Anaheim.

The NFL was in Los Angeles quite a few times.  It's all past tense for a reason.

Even then the demographics weren't in the City's favor.  I can't imagine it has changed so significantly to where they can avoid Jacksonville Syndrome of a cold sweat and panicked ticket sales to avoid blackouts.TV money or not, you need to sell tickets to pay for all the capital improvements.  Nobody has perfected a business model where ticket sales are no longer the foundation in the revenue stream.

If the NFL doesn't want to contract, it should at least try a new market, not a busted one that's synonymous with failure where you can sell tickets for more than five years.

[BuffaloBill]

Wayne Cubed, on 17 April 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I lived in LA for many years and I never got when people on this board talk like LA can't support a team. Do people not understand that the Raiders and Rams left because a new stadium couldn't be built. Both teams just didn't want to play in the coliseum anymore, which wasn't built to hold NFL teams. It had almost little to do with fan support. There is tons of fan support for the NFL in LA. LA ISa viable NFL city.

I disagree ....

I lived in LA when both teams were there.  Ther was limited interest and no passion among the fan base.  LA has too many other forms of entertainment

[tgreg99]

Billshank Redemption, on 17 April 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I agree, I think that 32 really is the max you can go. There is absolutely no reason to try and put a franchise overseas or over the border for that matter. The NFL makes so much freaking money its hard to quantify why they want to torture fans even more. It is the greatest league in the world yet they think L.A is going to put it over the top which I disagree with firmly. L.A fans unlike N.Y.C fans are not loyal whatsoever. They don't care exhibit a. Kings. Its just how they are its cool to be winning its not to lose. L.A is NOT a good sports town no matter the population! If they want a team give them one where the fans don't care like Tampa or Jacksonville, even S.D where the team is just 1.5 hours away but why on earth move a team cross country completely. I actually don't know what I would do.

You're right. There are no loyal sports fans in LA. It's not the home to the greatest NBA franchise of all time -- and they share a stadium with an up and coming NBA team in the Clippers. There are also no real fan base for the Dodgers which is why the franchise sold for a paltry 2 BILLION and change.

And forget about USC (which has had a more professional team than some NFL cities -- literally and figuratively) or UCLA.

Yeah. There are no sports fans in LA.

[Mark Vader]

PromoTheRobot, on 17 April 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

And apparently that was worth spending tax money on, but not the Vikings.

PTR

Looks that way.

Also let's remember that the Minnesota Golden Gophers are part of an educational institution, whereas the Minnesota Vikings are a straight business.

You can negotiate with the Gophers because you never hear of Universities packing up and moving to other cities.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Gordio, on 17 April 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

The Rams never played in the Colleseum did they?

The Rams played in the Coliseum for 34 YEARS!

[Wayne Cubed]

QCity, on 17 April 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Little to do with fan support? It had everything to do with fan support. LA fans are fickle and simply won't support a losing NFL team over an extended period. The Rams played their last 15 years in Anaheim Stadium, so the Coliseum excuse won't hold water for them. And that's all it was - an excuse. Interest in the Raiders waned and the fans became indifferent after the honeymoon phase was over. People on this board say that LA can't support a team because history has shown they can't - twice.

They played in the coliseum for 34 years before that. So yea that excuse is valid. It was severely outdated, being built in 1922, and hard to sell out(100,000). Something the Raiders learned when they moved their in 82, when the NFL wasn't nearly as popular,, especially with the new black out rule.  Have you ever seen a game at the coliseum? It's brutal.

In 20 years will people be blaming the fans or lack of fans in Minnesota for leaving even though it would've been because of the crap stadium they were playin in?

tgreg99, on 17 April 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

You're right. There are no loyal sports fans in LA. It's not the home to the greatest NBA franchise of all time -- and they share a stadium with an up and coming NBA team in the Clippers. There are also no real fan base for the Dodgers which is why the franchise sold for a paltry 2 BILLION and change.

And forget about USC (which has had a more professional team than some NFL cities -- literally and figuratively) or UCLA.

Yeah. There are no sports fans in LA.

Yea, but, but they won't support the NFL cause there is so much more entertainment and other sports...

Edited by Wayne Cubed, 17 April 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[Why So Serious?]

erynthered, on 17 April 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

I guess you didnt read the article
I guess you didnt read the article

$398 million from the state from taxes on expanded gambling, $150 million from the city of Minneapolis from existing sales taxes and $427 million from the Vikings with assistance likely from the NFL.

I skimmed but still the point being the Bills' reno is about half the cost to Tax Payers.

We should be saying, we got a GD deal.

[SelmonSmith6378]

Alright...Why the hell would you have a team called the VIKINGS in a hot area like LA? I mean, I know there were never any Vikings in Minnesota (Though they did arrive in America before Colombus, in Maine I think), but Vikings live in cold, snowy areas like Minnesota. What the hell?

[K-9]

SelmonSmith6378, on 17 April 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Alright...Why the hell would you have a team called the VIKINGS in a hot area like LA? I mean, I know there were never any Vikings in Minnesota (Though they did arrive in America before Colombus, in Maine I think), but Vikings live in cold, snowy areas like Minnesota. What the hell?

Same reason another team from Minny that ended up in LA: SoCal has a TON of lakes!

GO BILLS!!!

[QCity]

Wayne Cubed, on 17 April 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Yea, but, but they won't support the NFL cause there is so much more entertainment and other sports...

No, they won't support the NFL because they are a fickle fanbase that has better things to do than root for a 4-12 team. And when their franchise goes on a 3-year skid of finishing under .500 (inevitably they will at some point) the stadium will be half empty, and everyone will be left scrambling for the next excuse as to why. The Coliseum excuse is the dating equivalent of "It's not you, it's me." Seriously LA NFL fans, it wasn't you, it was the stadium (both of them apparently).  

[Phil Hansen Forever]

Billsrhody, on 17 April 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tough to be a vikings fan right now..

Nobody wanted the new downtown site anyway. There was great promise for the Arden Hills site, but the Governor shot that idea down. Now he blames the Republicans for not passing the bill authorizing the sales tax increase.  The downtown site is appalling. Right next to the old antiquated Metrodome, but with even fewer seats and another dome. Limited tailgating at $200 per vehicle, plus more luxury boxes.

The fans are upset, but the whole political situation is enough to make a person sick.