70 replies to this topic

[eball]

Mr. WEO, on 07 May 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

RJ lost his starting job when he was injured falling on a football.

He was dumb as a box of rocks, and I think he understood this, to some degree.  JP was as dumb but he had no idea.  He really thought he was a first round worthy NFL QB.  Coudln't read a Snellen chart, let alone a defense.

It's overly simplistic statements like this that make you so endearing.  Intelligence is not the same thing as being able to process information on a football field quickly.  That's where both players failed.

[T master]

The Biggest piece of crap to ever wear a Bills Uni !!   This guy was a turd from the word go i for sure don't see what Phillips or for that matter what any one ever saw in this guy !!

  I would take Trent Edwards , J . P. Losman hell even Todd Collins over this guy any day !! Does that tell you what he's worth in my book !!

  TURD IS THE WORD !!!

[dave mcbride]

Buftex, on 07 May 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Yeah, that is the fragile thing I was talking about.  Funny, but I don't remember the O-line being that horrendous during RJ's years, but that could be the fact that the only thing we would have to compare it too is how they played when Flutie was in the game... and Flutie was a much more unconventional QB than RJ. What was a little frustrating about RJ (and maybe this was a sign of the times he played in, when mobility wasn't as valued a QB commodity as it is now), the guy could run, and had decent speed...it was always his last resort though...a few 10-15 yard runs early in a game, might have slowed that pass rush down a bit.  

I think RJ might have fared better in Buffalo if he had a different backup QB...not blaming Flutie, but he (Flutie) wasn't one to defer, and I don't think RJ was mentally prepared to deal with the almost Tebowesque trance that Flutie had on Buffalo, and the NFL in general.

I remember being at a regular season game in Buffalo, against the Chargers (2000 IIRC) where Johnson was having a really strong game...mostly a short yardage game...soemthing like 30 completions for 340 yards, a td pass...the Bills were moving the ball against a good Chargers defense, and RJ led them down the field, final 2 minutes, to tie the game up at 24..the whole game, the crowd was just booing Johnson mericelessly.  I was kind of shocked...it was my first game, in Buffalo, during the RJ/Flutie years.

RJ was playing well, but he wasn't Flutie...sure as ****, opening drive of OT, Johnson got hurt, the Bills defense held the Chargers, and then, Flutie came in and led the Bills to a winning field goal...the legend of Flutie just kept growing...

Rob Johnson sucked. He made a mediocre Buffalo line look a lot worse than it actually was because of his inability to read the field quickly (look at FLutie in comparison - all of a sudden the line looked more effective). He was a major disappointment at USC, btw. There's a reason he lasted until the fourth round despite having clear top-of-the-first-round physical talent.

[Fan in San Diego]

DF>RJ

[NickelCity]

Fan in San Diego, on 07 May 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

DF>RJ

[Kelly the Dog]

I have long contended that in retrospect we should have known he would suck.

Think about it. This was a guy with all the size in the world, great athletically, he could run, he had a cannon for an arm, his father was a legendary high school coach so he grew up in a football family, he was recruited by and played for a major college, with a NFL coach in John Robinson, with great NFL receivers like Keyshawn Johnson and Johnny Morton. He played in three Bowl games I think. His roommate was Tony Boselli. He had most of the all-time USC passing records.

Scouts LOVE guys like that. They rocket up the boards and get over drafted, usually in the upper part of the first round.

Rob Johnson fell in the draft. To the fourth round (the first pick of the fourth, which is the equivalent to a third round pick today but still).

Scouts knew. He wasn't a winner. He never beat arch rival UCLA in his career. There was something missing in this guy.

[dave mcbride]

Kelly the Dog, on 07 May 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I have long contended that in retrospect we should have known he would suck.

Think about it. This was a guy with all the size in the world, great athletically, he could run, he had a cannon for an arm, his father was a legendary high school coach so he grew up in a football family, he was recruited by and played for a major college, with a NFL coach in John Robinson, with great NFL receivers like Keyshawn Johnson and Johnny Morton. He played in three Bowl games I think. His roommate was Tony Boselli. He had most of the all-time USC passing records.

Scouts LOVE guys like that. They rocket up the boards and get over drafted, usually in the upper part of the first round.

Rob Johnson fell in the draft. To the fourth round (the first pick of the fourth, which is the equivalent to a third round pick today but still).

Scouts knew. He wasn't a winner. He never beat arch rival UCLA in his career. There was something missing in this guy.

He had Curtis Conway too.

In his three seasons starting, he had, in succession, Curtis Conway, Johnny Morton, and Keyshawn Johnson as his #1 receivers (in fact, in Johnson's first year starting, both Conway and Morton caught 50 balls). All of those receivers were first round picks and very productive in the NFL. In the NFL, Conway ended up with 594 receptions for 8230 yards (13.9 ypc); Morton had 624 receptions for 8719 yards (14.0 ypc); and Johnson had 814 receptions for 10,571 yards (13.0 ypc). Rob Johnson's starting LT was Tony Boselli. Yet the teams he led never beat either Notre Dame or UCLA despite having better talent.

Edited by dave mcbride, 07 May 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Bill from NYC]

Buftex, on 07 May 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

I wish I could find it, but I remember RJ throwning a pass, across his body, about 60 yards down field, opposite sideline, to, IIRC Eric Moulds, that maybe only John Elway could have pulled off...it was deadly accurate, like threading a needle, while scrambling

Was it against the Saints? I remember a pass like that but it might have been more of a post pattern.

He also had a fantastic game once against the Rams, and lost in the last second. I really thought RJ was going to be great. If he had a head like Fitz he would be in the hall of fame. He had all the talent in the world butr just couldn't play. It made it easy for me to recognize the same in JP. We Bills fans are hard to fool now.  

[BuffaloBob]

eball, on 07 May 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

It's overly simplistic statements like this that make you so endearing.  Intelligence is not the same thing as being able to process information on a football field quickly.  That's where both players failed.

This!

I have a BS in Biomedical Engineering and a Law degree and I highly doubt I could get a pass off to anyone in the time it takes to do so with 300 pound behemoths who can run way faster than me trying to affect the head.  Kill the head and the body will die.  

Oops.  Don't bother guys, he already pissed and crapped himself and dropped the ball!

[Buftex]

dave mcbride, on 07 May 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Rob Johnson sucked. He made a mediocre Buffalo line look a lot worse than it actually was because of his inability to read the field quickly (look at FLutie in comparison - all of a sudden the line looked more effective). He was a major disappointment at USC, btw. There's a reason he lasted until the fourth round despite having clear top-of-the-first-round physical talent.

Yeah I know he sucked...but he wasn't the worst QB we have had since 1996. In fact, if you ranked them, he would be closer to the top than the bottom.

Edited by Buftex, 07 May 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[BuffaloBob]

hondo in seattle, on 07 May 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

There was a reason for the Flutie-Johnson controversy - both did some things well; neither did everything well.

Johnson actually put up better numbers.  His QB rating with the Bills was something like 86 while Flutie's was more like 81.

Johnson had a good arm but was indecisive, a poor leader, and took way too many sacks.

Flutie was a great scrambler and had some 4th quarter heroics but was often dismal for the first 3 quarters.

I'm glad they're both gone.  Fitz is better than either of them.

Like another present-day QB, currently playing for the Jests, whose legend is somewhat unjustifed.

I once did an analysis of the stats for the year of Homerun Throwback and if I recall, the Bills offense under Flutie scored something like 13 points per game average for the season.  What got the Bills to the playoffs was the Number 1 or 2 (forget) ranked defense in the NFL, that not only held opponents to like 10 points a game offensively, but often scored TDs as well.  

By that season, teams had figured out that to neutralize Dougie, they merely had to maintain rush lanes, get their hands up, and take away his scrambling opportunities.  Plus, a LB assigned to spy on him in case he did escape.  This also helped make our O-line look better than it was.

Edited by BuffaloBob, 07 May 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[Cripes]

eball, on 07 May 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

I was admittedly on the wrong side of the RJ/Flutie debate; if we could only go back and do it all again, Buffalo might have been playing the Rams in the 2000 Super Bowl.

I'll vote nay. Flutie's magic was only worth 10 to 13 points a game throughout most of that season.

Tennessee wouldn't have needed the officials to hand the game over to them, because Flutie would have obliged with his usual one fumble, two pick performance.

I was fine with Wade's choice to go with Johnson that day. Say what you will about whether Good Flutie might have shown up...but Johnson did what he was supposed to do to win the game.

[dave mcbride]

Buftex, on 07 May 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Yeah I know he sucked...but he wasn't the worst QB we have had since 1996. In fact, if you ranked them, he would be closer to the top than the bottom.

Really? I think Flutie was far better than him, and Bledsoe was better too. Johnson was better than JP and Trent Edwards (not by much!) but worse than Fitzpatrick. So I place him in the bottom half.

[Rob's House]

hondo in seattle, on 07 May 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

There was a reason for the Flutie-Johnson controversy - both did some things well; neither did everything well.

Johnson actually put up better numbers.  His QB rating with the Bills was something like 86 while Flutie's was more like 81.
Johnson had a good arm but was indecisive, a poor leader, and took way too many sacks.

Flutie was a great scrambler and had some 4th quarter heroics but was often dismal for the first 3 quarters.

I'm glad they're both gone.  Fitz is better than either of them.

Those numbers were artificially inflated because he took a lot of sacks, which don't hurt QB rating, which then enabled him to complete midrange passes on 3rd and long that helped his rating but led to 3 and out. He's the reason we lost with him under center.

[dave mcbride]

BuffaloBob, on 07 May 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Like another present-day QB, currently playing for the Jests, whose legend is somewhat unjustifed.

I once did an analysis of the stats for the year of Homerun Throwback and if I recall, the Bills offense under Flutie scored something like 13 points per game average for the season.  What got the Bills to the playoffs was the Number 1 or 2 (forget) ranked defense in the NFL, that not only held opponents to like 10 points a game offensively, but often scored TDs as well.  

By that season, teams had figured out that to neutralize Dougie, they merely had to maintain rush lanes, get their hands up, and take away his scrambling opportunities.  Plus, a LB assigned to spy on him in case he did escape.  This also helped make our O-line look better than it was.

Not including game 16 in 1999, the team averaged 19.25 points per game. They ended up 16th in points and 11th in yards. They were 11th in net yards passing, but they actually didn't pass that much, ranking 24th in the number of attempts. It's not as if the Bills D, which was very good, generated points itself: they were 26th in INTs and 25th in forced fumbles.

The bigger issue was Flutie's ability to avoid sacks. That ability isn't factored into QB rating, but a sack is only slightly worse than an INT. It almost always kills a drive.  Johnson has the highest sack per attempt rating in NFL history.

Edited by dave mcbride, 07 May 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[Rob's House]

dave mcbride, on 07 May 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Really? I think Flutie was far better than him, and Bledsoe was better too. Johnson was better than JP and Trent Edwards (not by much!) but worse than Fitzpatrick. So I place him in the bottom half.

You're not wrong. We were more competetive with any of those guys than we were with RJ. He can't even claim he didn't have a team around him b/c Flutie consistently won with that supporting cast. I'd argue he was as bad or worse than JP or Trent, but no ? about Bledsoe, Flutie, or Fitz.

Edited by Rob's House, 07 May 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[loserlovers]

Buftex, on 07 May 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

I wish I could find it, but I remember RJ throwning a pass, across his body, about 60 yards down field, opposite sideline, to, IIRC Eric Moulds,

1998 against the dolphins that was a great play, by moulds! Typical of RJ, he only got it off because he rolled out to his right,which was not across his body. It was the only points we scored that game as RJ was worthless on every other play of the season which is why we started 0-3 that year.  The video which should be a tribute shows the sad reality of RJ being sacked, running for his life, and fumbling. Where do you see him in the pocket throwing a pass in the video???

RJ showed about as much as say mckelvin, a guy with some athletic ability with zero presence of mind to do the job.

[Mr. WEO]

eball, on 07 May 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

It's overly simplistic statements like this that make you so endearing.  Intelligence is not the same thing as being able to process information on a football field quickly.  That's where both players failed.

Actually that's large part of what determines intelligence.  Neither of these guys had the intellectual ability to perform their job.  

That's the (not "overly") simple truth.

Edited by Mr. WEO, 07 May 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[loserlovers]

Cripes, on 07 May 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

I'll vote nay. Flutie's magic was only worth 10 to 13 points a game throughout most of that season.

Tennessee wouldn't have needed the officials to hand the game over to them, because Flutie would have obliged with his usual one fumble, two pick performance.

I was fine with Wade's choice to go with Johnson that day. Say what you will about whether Good Flutie might have shown up...but Johnson did what he was supposed to do to win the game.

jesus i guess you think 99 yards passing,taking sacks and not scoring at all is "doing the job". Funny I thought the defense and antowain smith had the game won. And BTW flutie had several multi TD games that saved that season, while Johnson lost that game and almost everyother game he played in because he was the master of 10-13 point offense. Getting 40 yards offense against a prevent is far from impresive when the rest of the game he could only create another 50 or so. Amazing to see people really think like you just because in the last minute we were up by a whopping 2 points after being given two huge breaks by the refs resulting in two rushing TD's in that game.  I see though some people can only process one fact like , "we were up at the end, Johnson had it won=johnson did good" Nice analysis.

Edited by loserlovers, 07 May 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[reddogblitz]

I didn't watch the whole thing.  Was there a picture of him breaking the Bucs under 40 degree jinx?

To all the Flutie naysayers I just have one word to say about it PLAYOFFS?. We saw them twice while the Magic Man was here and not since ...