53 replies to this topic

[BillsWatch]

tgreg99, on 05 June 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Kelly played in a time where a DB could literally rape the WR he was  covering, punch his mother in face and still not get called for a  penalty. Now, if a DB breathes on a WR it's an automatic first down.

Exaggeration and hyperbole is a tool of those with weak arguments or those who think their arguments are weak. Do you KNOW what word literally means.  I am glad you are not a referee otherwise your keen powers of observation would result in challenges very fast.

[Hopeful]

tgreg99, on 04 June 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Many people debate whether accuracy can be taught. A lot of coaches and Hall of Fame QBs believe that it's innate. Sure, with better footwork and technique you can bump your Completion % up 2-5 points, but 6-10 points? That just doesn't happen that often.

If a guy has a career completion percentage of 59%, he only has to bump it up 5 points to be near the top of the league.  If a guy has a completion of 62%, he only has to bump it up 2-3 points.

For the number of passes Fitz threw last year, the difference between 62% (Fitz completion % last year) and 65% (top 5 in the league) is one (1) additional completion per game.

Does Fitz have something to do with that?  Yep, he could make 1-2 additional throws with improved accuracy per game.  Getting rid of those WTF? ducks would be nice.
Do the WR he's throwing to have something to do with that?  I don't think that's arguable either - one less miscue on the routes or one less dropped ball per game also does it.  The occasional "WOW!" catch would also be nice.

[tgreg99]

BillsWatch, on 07 June 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Exaggeration and hyperbole is a tool of those with weak arguments or those who think their arguments are weak. Do you KNOW what word literally means.  I am glad you are not a referee otherwise your keen powers of observation would result in challenges very fast.

So you don't think there have been fundamental changes to the rules of the sport since the 90s?

You clearly are without a sense of humor, but are you honestly trying to make the argument that there have not been drastic rule changes over the past decade and change that favored the passing game? Or are you just trying to argue something to argue?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

http://blogs.buffalo...2/jaws-on-fitz/

Ron Jaworski on Fitz:


“I broke down every pass of Ryan Fitzpatrick from last season,” he said. ”I watched every ball Ryan Fitzpatrick threw. You see a lot of great plays, a lot of positive plays. But the negative plays, the majority of them are based on mechanics. Improper mechanics hurt him… In talking about having David Lee as his quarterbacks coach, Fitzpatrick mentioned how no other coach he’s had at this level really schooled him on the proper mechanics of throwing. When asked about this Jaworski was not surprised.

“I’m not trying to bad mouth NFL coaches. They’re as committed to their work as anyone, but I’ve always said that the quarterback position is the worst coached position in the NFL. What happens is you have a lot of prima donnas that make a lot of money and you’ve got a coach that’s making $200 thousand that’s supposed to be tough and disciplined on them and a lot of times players don’t buy into that because of their stature.”

[paintmyhouse]

Hopeful, on 08 June 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

If a guy has a career completion percentage of 59%, he only has to bump it up 5 points to be near the top of the league.  If a guy has a completion of 62%, he only has to bump it up 2-3 points.

For the number of passes Fitz threw last year, the difference between 62% (Fitz completion % last year) and 65% (top 5 in the league) is one (1) additional completion per game.

Does Fitz have something to do with that?  Yep, he could make 1-2 additional throws with improved accuracy per game.  Getting rid of those WTF? ducks would be nice.
Do the WR he's throwing to have something to do with that?  I don't think that's arguable either - one less miscue on the routes or one less dropped ball per game also does it.  The occasional "WOW!" catch would also be nice.

18 guys that qualified for QB stats had over 60%.  Even Josh Freeman finished just ahead of Fitz at 62.6.  The problem is Fitz has no intermediate to long game, he has no arm at all.  Of the 18 over 60%, Fitz was in 17th place in YPA, Fitz has redefined begin Captain Checkdown, he is the original and definition of being Captain Checkdown.

There are wow catches every game with how inaccurate Fitz is on every pass over 10 yards.  He also gets his WRs killed every game because of this too.

Edited by paintmyhouse, 14 June 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[3rdand12]

paintmyhouse, on 14 June 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

18 guys that qualified for QB stats had over 60%.  Even Josh Freeman finished just ahead of Fitz at 62.6.  The problem is Fitz has no intermediate to long game, he has no arm at all.  Of the 18 over 60%, Fitz was in 17th place in YPA, Fitz has redefined begin Captain Checkdown, he is the original and definition of being Captain Checkdown.

There are wow catches every game with how inaccurate Fitz is on every pass over 10 yards. He also gets his WRs killed every game because of this too.

No wonder we had to put Brad Smith, the family dog and the neighbors cat out at wide receiver last year.
Wait till Goodell finds out about this.
After they were killed by Ryan, were they ground up and put in the freezer or on a plane to Chicago? probably in the freezer because Ralph is so cheap

[San Jose Bills Fan]

San Jose Bills Fan, on 13 June 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

http://blogs.buffalo...2/jaws-on-fitz/

Ron Jaworski on Fitz:

"I broke down every pass of Ryan Fitzpatrick from last season," he said. "I watched every ball Ryan Fitzpatrick threw. You see a lot of great plays, a lot of positive plays. But the negative plays, the majority of them are based on mechanics. Improper mechanics hurt him… In talking about having David Lee as his quarterbacks coach, Fitzpatrick mentioned how no other coach he's had at this level really schooled him on the proper mechanics of throwing. When asked about this Jaworski was not surprised.

"I'm not trying to bad mouth NFL coaches. They're as committed to their work as anyone, but I've always said that the quarterback position is the worst coached position in the NFL. What happens is you have a lot of prima donnas that make a lot of money and you've got a coach that's making $200 thousand that's supposed to be tough and disciplined on them and a lot of times players don't buy into that because of their stature."

http://blogs.buffalo...itzpatrick.html

When Parcells was assembling his first Miami Dolphins coaching staff in 2008, he hired Lee before he hired the head coach.

The late Tom Martinez, personal throwing guru for New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, often would bemoan the lack of passing-mechanics instruction at the NFL level.

"Mechanics should be coached on a daily basis," Martinez once told me, "and I don't know that it is."

Edited by San Jose Bills Fan, 15 June 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[FeartheLosing]

NFN,  but I've been saying for years the Bills have had NOBODY in that Bills OC position that knew WTH they were doing!! Even Jauon's first OC Steve Fairchild wasn't a true OC as Mike Martz called the offensive plays in St Louis. So yea! It doesn't shock me in the least to hear Fitz state he has never had proper training in proper fundamental QB technique. Kinda the reason as to why JP Losman and Trent Edwards were never developed properly either.


I look at Fitz and see a Rich Gannon type clone, another QB who was also a very smart guy. A seasoned journeyman veteran QB that flourished under offensive minded Jon Gruden near the end of his 17 year NFL career, and took his team to the super bowl. Didn't become a pro bowl QB until his10th year, and played on some pretty crappy teams before he joined the Raiders.


Fitz is a very smart guy, and not just book smart as 49 out of 50 on his "wonderlic"will tell you. He also learned how to beat the AFC north teams during his time in Cincy. That was evidenced by the way he played in 2010 against the Steelers, Ravens, Bengals, Browns. So it stands to reason if given time he will learn how to beat Rex Ryans, Bill Belichicks and Mike Nolans defenses, the main ingredient in the recipe to winning the AFC East.

I think teams don't necessarily need to develop a "franchise" QB from scratch as long as they build the offense properly, starting with the O line. Build the very best O line you can, get the QB a top TE as an outlet. Get a top WR corps and go from there to see what the QB can do if given time in the pocket. Stating that,the Bills still have a ways to go to catch teams like the NY Giants offensively!  Line, receiving corps, play calling, offensive game plan.

So in my view Fitz will do better this year just having a better line and proper QB coaching.

[Dorkington]

Hopeful, on 08 June 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

If a guy has a career completion percentage of 59%, he only has to bump it up 5 points to be near the top of the league.  If a guy has a completion of 62%, he only has to bump it up 2-3 points.

For the number of passes Fitz threw last year, the difference between 62% (Fitz completion % last year) and 65% (top 5 in the league) is one (1) additional completion per game.

Does Fitz have something to do with that?  Yep, he could make 1-2 additional throws with improved accuracy per game.  Getting rid of those WTF? ducks would be nice.
Do the WR he's throwing to have something to do with that?  I don't think that's arguable either - one less miscue on the routes or one less dropped ball per game also does it.  The occasional "WOW!" catch would also be nice.

It's amazing what one more or less completed pass per game would do to change perceptions.

[paintmyhouse]

Fear the Beard, on 15 June 2012 - 02:48 AM, said:

NFN,  but I've been saying for years the Bills have had NOBODY in that Bills OC position that knew WTH they were doing!! Even Jauon's first OC Steve Fairchild wasn't a true OC as Mike Martz called the offensive plays in St Louis. So yea! It doesn't shock me in the least to hear Fitz state he has never had proper training in proper fundamental QB technique. Kinda the reason as to why JP Losman and Trent Edwards were never developed properly either.


I look at Fitz and see a Rich Gannon type clone, another QB who was also a very smart guy. A seasoned journeyman veteran QB that flourished under offensive minded Jon Gruden near the end of his 17 year NFL career, and took his team to the super bowl. Didn't become a pro bowl QB until his10th year, and played on some pretty crappy teams before he joined the Raiders.


Fitz is a very smart guy, and not just book smart as 49 out of 50 on his "wonderlic"will tell you. He also learned how to beat the AFC north teams during his time in Cincy. That was evidenced by the way he played in 2010 against the Steelers, Ravens, Bengals, Browns. So it stands to reason if given time he will learn how to beat Rex Ryans, Bill Belichicks and Mike Nolans defenses, the main ingredient in the recipe to winning the AFC East.

I think teams don't necessarily need to develop a "franchise" QB from scratch as long as they build the offense properly, starting with the O line. Build the very best O line you can, get the QB a top TE as an outlet. Get a top WR corps and go from there to see what the QB can do if given time in the pocket. Stating that,the Bills still have a ways to go to catch teams like the NY Giants offensively!  Line, receiving corps, play calling, offensive game plan.

So in my view Fitz will do better this year just having a better line and proper QB coaching.

Gannon comparison holds no water at all.  It is a complete farce to say he was on bad teams.  He played for the Vikings for 6 seasons, and they made the playoffs in 4 of them.  He just happened to play behind Wade Wilson who was not that bad, but got hurt a lot.  He played 4 years in KC and in two of them they were 13-3 and in 2 of them they were over .500 in 3 of them, they just had guys ahead of him like Steve Bono and Grbac.

Gannon was always decent, this is the complete misconception.  He just had guys that were successful, played well, and went to the playoffs who were ahead of him on the depth chart.  There is a major, complete major difference in Gannon and Fitzpatrick, and they are not even close to the same story or player.   Fitz was a backup on all back teams, Gannon was a backup on all good teams, when Fitz finally got to start he was terrible, absolutely awful, and when Gannon got to start he was instant money, a pro bowl level player.

Please never compare Fitzpatrick to any player that was a good QB, Fitzpatrick should never be an NFL starter.

Edited by paintmyhouse, 15 June 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[eball]

paintmyhouse, on 15 June 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Please never compare Fitzpatrick to any player that was a good QB, Fitzpatrick should never be an NFL starter.

Please reconcile your ridiculously strong opinion with that of guys like Jaworski, Gailey, Nix, et al, who are actually in the business and believe Fitz is more than serviceable as a starting QB.

[Dorkington]

eball, on 15 June 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Please reconcile your ridiculously strong opinion with that of guys like Jaworski, Gailey, Nix, et al, who are actually in the business and believe Fitz is more than serviceable as a starting QB.

Not to mention, as another poster has pointed out, we're talking about the difference of *one* pass per game to get said "magical" "elite" numbers. It's obvious that Fitzpatrick can be a solid starter in this league, and minus the interceptions he did very well last year. Also, anyone watching can see he's a bit of a "mess" mechanically, so it's not exactly a stretch to think that with some improvements there, he could further improve on the field. Obviously we all want to see the results, but the assumption that he can't possibly be a decent QB is a little asinine.

(This is without mentioning the obvious injury he incurred last year... he was 155/229 - 67.7%, 13 TDs, 7 INTs pre-injury.)

Edited by Dorkington, 15 June 2012 - 08:32 AM.

[FeartheLosing]

paintmyhouse, on 15 June 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Gannon comparison holds no water at all.  It is a complete farce to say he was on bad teams.  He played for the Vikings for 6 seasons, and they made the playoffs in 4 of them.  He just happened to play behind Wade Wilson who was not that bad, but got hurt a lot.  He played 4 years in KC and in two of them they were 13-3 and in 2 of them they were over .500 in 3 of them, they just had guys ahead of him like Steve Bono and Grbac.

Gannon was always decent, this is the complete misconception.  He just had guys that were successful, played well, and went to the playoffs who were ahead of him on the depth chart.  There is a major, complete major difference in Gannon and Fitzpatrick, and they are not even close to the same story or player.   Fitz was a backup on all back teams, Gannon was a backup on all good teams, when Fitz finally got to start he was terrible, absolutely awful, and when Gannon got to start he was instant money, a pro bowl level player.

Please never compare Fitzpatrick to any player that was a good QB, Fitzpatrick should never be an NFL starter.

Shut up troll...

I can remember you from all last off season blasting Fitz over and over every chance you got and in every post you made. I'd call that a crusade against a good Bills player. I take your opinion for what its worth..NOTHING!

Think I'll take Chan Gaileys opinion over yours when he stated he can win with Fitz!




Dunno why a even bother to respond to your  trolling...perhaps for other actual Bills fans who read your crap. Fitz played on some pretty terrible teams throughout his career up until last year. But that was only until week 8 or so. Then after the Injuries to the LT and Center, WR's and Fred Jackson the Bills became a bad team again. The Bills OC didn't help much in the fact that he kept calling for passing plays over and over with a decimated offense. Not to mention to how bad that defense was all last year #26 in total defense and no pass rush. Even Nix admitted the Bills defense made bad QB's look like HoFers. So the Bills were always playing catch up by passing, which put Fitz in constant bad situations. No QB can succeed like that!

[Hopeful]

paintmyhouse, on 15 June 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Please never compare Fitzpatrick to any player that was a good QB, Fitzpatrick should never be an NFL starter.

More sophistication, but the Trollish nature shines through.

I hear living under a bridge is bad for the joints - damp, rheumatism and all that

eball, on 15 June 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Please reconcile your ridiculously strong opinion with that of guys like Jaworski, Gailey, Nix, et al, who are actually in the business and believe Fitz is more than serviceable as a starting QB.

Reconcile, as in "reconcile accounts"?  I don't think Trolls can count