105 replies to this topic

[MClem06]

Trent Dilfer.

[todzilla]

Sadly...Jeff Hostetler

[Stranger in a Strange Land]

Theisman

[BuffOrange]

todzilla, on 19 June 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Sadly...Jeff Hostetler

Could throw Rypien in there too, although he had a fantastic year.  

The two guys after Dilfer were pretty marginal too - Brady wasn't yet Brady in '01, and Brad Johnson in '02.  Those early 2000's were a brutal mini-era.

I think Jim Plunkett would qualify too, though I'm too young to really say.

Edited by BuffOrange, 19 June 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[billsfan_34]

Plunket

[taC giB ehT]

Eli Manning.

[phillyrich]

BuffOrange, on 19 June 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Could throw Rypien in there too, although he had a fantastic year.  

The two guys after Dilfer were pretty marginal too - Brady wasn't yet Brady in '01, and Brad Johnson in '02.  Those early 2000's were a brutal mini-era.

I think Jim Plunkett would qualify too, though I'm too young to really say.

Agree on Rypien.  He has one great year and one once in a lifetime game.  Jim McMahon could be lumped in this group.  So could Doug Williams.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Mediocre for the game, season or career?

I would suggest Eli Manning of the Superbowl XLII winning New York Giants.  Mediocre career up until 2008, mediocre that year although he finished well and so so that particular game although he was clutch.

[MClem06]

So do all of these so-so QB's prove that we don't need one for a SB win?  Not bashing on Fitzy at all because if this entire team stays healthy I think he can rise above his sub/middle of the pack label but hey our D is looking nice.  Does this prove a D can win you a superbowl with a functional QB?

[jeremy2020]

Terry Bradshaw
Ken Stabler
Jim McMahon
Phil Simms
Doug Williams
Jeff Hostetler
Mark Rypien
Brad Johnson

[chris heff]

[quote name='jeremy2020' timestamp='1340141962' post='2488992']
Terry Bradshaw
Ken Stabler
Jim McMahon
Phil Simms
Doug Williams
Jeff Hostetler
Mark Rypien
Brad Johnson

One could also argue that you could throw in Jim Plunkett twice. He was kind of considered a bust, he was backing up Dan Pastorini in 1980. Pastorini broke his leg and Plunkett took them to the Super Bowl. In 1983 he was backing up Marc Wilson. Wilson got hurt. Plunkett wins second Super Bowl.

[yungmack]

I don't know if you can write off any SB winning QB as "mediocre."  But one thing I've noticed is that "gunslinger" style QBs have won far fewer SBs than than less flamboyant "system" QBs.

[taC giB ehT]

MClem06, on 19 June 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

So do all of these so-so QB's prove that we don't need one for a SB win?  Not bashing on Fitzy at all because if this entire team stays healthy I think he can rise above his sub/middle of the pack label but hey our D is looking nice.  Does this prove a D can win you a superbowl with a functional QB?

Yes--but there's two of ways of looking at it: as a percentage of Super Bowls won, or as a percentage of quarterbacks to have won a Super Bowl.


Super Bowl Champs since 1990 (* = low impact QB)
SF
NYG*
WAS*
DAL
DAL
SF
DAL
GB
DEN
DEN
STL
BAL*
NE*
TB*
NE
NE
PIT*
IND
NYG*
PIT
NO
GB
NYG*

8 of the last 23 SB Champions had low-impact QB's or just over 33%

BUT, of those 23 SB Champions, there have only been 16 different QB's which means 50% of the Super Bowl winning quarterbacks since 1991 1990 have been low-impact.

Interpret that data as you will...

Edited by The Big Cat, 19 June 2012 - 04:53 PM.

[Ramius]

BuffOrange, on 19 June 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Could throw Rypien in there too, although he had a fantastic year.  

The two guys after Dilfer were pretty marginal too - Brady wasn't yet Brady in '01, and Brad Johnson in '02.  Those early 2000's were a brutal mini-era.

I think Jim Plunkett would qualify too, though I'm too young to really say.

Brad Johnson had a pro-bowl caliber season in 2002. He'd a huge reason why the Buccs finally won it all.

[sllib olaffub]

In regards to the QB's on that list - Eli Manning, in my opinion, is not a low impact, or mediocre, QB.  He just has played too good in important games.  When he is hot, he's as good as any QB in the NFL.

Now, when it comes to Fitzpatrick, I've been as big a critic as anyone.  I've often said I don't think he is an elite QB, and I just don't see him as a Qb who can lead this team to a championship.  However, I also have noted that I think he is tremendous at reading defenses, knowing where to throw the ball, and his intangibles are super high.  It's always been his accuracy and occasionally his strength.  Well, if Lee can change Fitz's mechanics to the point where his accuracy is better, he could very well develop into a top 12 QB.  He has the heart.  Nevertheless, teams have won championships with great defenses, so I would hope we learn to lean more on our RB's this year and let Fitz surprise teams, instead of trying to always carry ours.

[MClem06]

sllib olaffub, on 19 June 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

In regards to the QB's on that list - Eli Manning, in my opinion, is not a low impact, or mediocre, QB.  He just has played too good in important games.  When he is hot, he's as good as any QB in the NFL.

Now, when it comes to Fitzpatrick, I've been as big a critic as anyone.  I've often said I don't think he is an elite QB, and I just don't see him as a Qb who can lead this team to a championship.  However, I also have noted that I think he is tremendous at reading defenses, knowing where to throw the ball, and his intangibles are super high.  It's always been his accuracy and occasionally his strength.  Well, if Lee can change Fitz's mechanics to the point where his accuracy is better, he could very well develop into a top 12 QB.  He has the heart.  Nevertheless, teams have won championships with great defenses, so I would hope we learn to lean more on our RB's this year and let Fitz surprise teams, instead of trying to always carry ours.

I agree Run more/screen more this year is going to be clutch.  We have two different style backs we just need to make sure we're not 3rd and 8 like in the Trentative/Losman days.

[Dadonkadonk]

Name great QB's that never won the SuperBowl.  It's a team sport.  Brady may be the greatest QB of all time and he has lost his last two SB's.  Kelly, Marino, Elway(without TD), Fouts, Tarkenton, and many other greats have never won the SB.  QB's are important but so are LB's that can tackle OJ Anderson....

Edited by Dadonkadonk, 19 June 2012 - 05:59 PM.

[LABillzFan]

The Big Cat, on 19 June 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Eli Manning.

How in the holy hell can you suggest that Eli Manning is a mediocre quarterback? The dude went to the SB twice, and twice he was nuts-on clutch on the biggest stage in the biggest game, needing to come from behind in the final moments to win it all, only to win MVP in both games.

In 2007, needing a TD to win with 2:30 left in the game, he takes his team down the field to beat a Patrtiots* team that had not lost a game all year.

In 2011, he again drives them down the field in the final minutes to take the lead. This came after knocking off already-anointed Green Bay Packers IN Green Bay (21 of 33 and 3 TDs and a pick).

I understand he's from a NJ team and blah, blah, blah, but to suggest that Eli Manning is mediocre is absolutely ridiculous.The dude is absolutely clutch when you need it most. If we had ONE player like him you'd pee yourself from excitement.

[PromoTheRobot]

Joe Namath

One big intangible Fitz possesses is leadership. The guy will do anything to win a game and his teammates know it. How many comeback games has he had the last two years? Haters refuse to see it but Fitz is pretty clutch too.

PTR

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 19 June 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[jboyst62]

Has there been enough named yet to satisfy the question?

I mean, over half the Super Bowls have been won by big name QB's, and Fitz isn't a big name, like Rivers, Vick, Ryan, Flacco, or Dalton, or Schaub, or Cassel.

Edited by jboyst62, 19 June 2012 - 05:55 PM.