143 replies to this topic

[Billsrhody]

NoSaint, on 21 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

my assertion is as recent as this week - he didnt just request a trade - he made it clear until he got what he wanted, he was only halfway working.

that is the same exact issue. his outburst wasnt violent but it was selfish, and immature and not how a professional handles that.

You say its the exact same issue.. then go on to describe how it wasn't violent. So how is it the same? NFL players have ego's. The good ones often have confidence that borders on being cocky. Harvin may be selfish and he may be immature, but I don't want to be friends with the guy, I just want him on my football team because of what he does on the field.

Once again, what are you worried about him doing?

[NoSaint]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

You say its the exact same issue.. then go on to describe how it wasn't violent. So how is it the same? NFL players have ego's. The good ones often have confidence that borders on being cocky. Harvin may be selfish and he may be immature, but I don't want to be friends with the guy, I just want him on my football team because of what he does on the field.

Once again, what are you worried about him doing?

It's when he doesn't get what he wants he acts out without concern of consequence- its a bad thing.

I worry he will be santonio 2.0 if given a deal. Look what it got the jets. Except he's got potential to be more explosive and less controlled in his emotions. It's followed him at the HS level, college level, and now were getting hints of it at this level.

Edited by NoSaint, 21 June 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[Captain Hindsight]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

You say its the exact same issue.. then go on to describe how it wasn't violent. So how is it the same? NFL players have ego's. The good ones often have confidence that borders on being cocky. Harvin may be selfish and he may be immature, but I don't want to be friends with the guy, I just want him on my football team because of what he does on the field.

Once again, what are you worried about him doing?

Quitting

[NoSaint]

Captain Hindsight, on 21 June 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Quitting

Generally yes.

Whether that's throwing a fit in the locker room if he's not getting passes, slacking on film study because he's not getting paid enough, or taking a dumb penalty cause someone's in his head.

He's not the type of guy winners chase.

He's the type of guy the jets sign for a quick cheap thrill that hurts you longterm.

[shoretalk]

Captain Hindsight, on 21 June 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Quitting

exactly ... and disrupting a locker room all because he believes it can be all Percy all the time.  He's like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum ... rather than working on his issues behind the scenes so as not to hurt the team (Or in the past his schools) he chooses to show his selfish immaturity out in the open.

Yes, he still might be a "star" but he will never be a winner.  If the Vikings send him packing it better not be here ...

[NoSaint]

shoretalk, on 21 June 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

exactly ... and disrupting a locker room all because he believes it can be all Percy all the time.  He's like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum ... rather than working on his issues behind the scenes so as not to hurt the team (Or in the past his schools) he chooses to show his selfish immaturity out in the open.

Yes, he still might be a "star" but he will never be a winner.  If the Vikings send him packing it better not be here ...

bingo.

[Billsrhody]

shoretalk, on 21 June 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

exactly ... and disrupting a locker room all because he believes it can be all Percy all the time.  He's like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum ... rather than working on his issues behind the scenes so as not to hurt the team (Or in the past his schools) he chooses to show his selfish immaturity out in the open.

Yes, he still might be a "star" but he will never be a winner.  If the Vikings send him packing it better not be here ...

Maybe he's just never been in a team first environment. Maybe coming to buffalo would complete change how he thinks about the game.

[Captain Hindsight]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Maybe he's just never been in a team first environment. Maybe coming to buffalo would complete change how he thinks about the game.

And maybe if I flap my arms I could fly. But history has told me otherwise

[Why So Serious?]

I rather have Nelson and Chandler on the field with Sppiler and Fred Jackson a million times over than trying to figure out where you force Harvin into the offense.

We have the middle of the field and SJ13's side more than covered.

If Harvin played Flanker than maybe but there is no need in bringing a name in to the team just to bring a name into the team.

[NoSaint]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Maybe he's just never been in a team first environment. Maybe coming to buffalo would complete change how he thinks about the game.

he played with tebow!

but on a serious note - you could say that about any trouble maker - maybe he just hasnt had the perfect spot? in about 99% of cases it just doesnt work out. further -this is the type of issue that is years of therapy to fix, not a good OTA session.

Edited by NoSaint, 21 June 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Billsrhody]

NoSaint, on 21 June 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

he played with tebow!

but on a serious note - you could say that about any trouble maker - maybe he just hasnt had the perfect spot? in about 99% of cases it just doesnt work out. further -this is the type of issue that is years of therapy to fix, not a good OTA session.

Could be a randy moss in new england type situation.

[Why So Serious?]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Could be a randy moss in new england type situation.

Or could be a OchoCinco in New England type of situation

[Captain Hindsight]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Could be a randy moss in new england type situation.

So in 3 years after we've won 3 super bowls in a row, we can bring him in

[NoSaint]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Could be a randy moss in new england type situation.

agree to disagree.

even if it works out, i think its luck and not a smart decision making process to add him.

how many rings did randy end up with, by the way? TO? Michael Vick? How have the cowboys been lately? jets? all the talent in the world and for some reason just cant make it over the top. there are so many of these teams that assemble talent, character be damned and more and more it seems that they underachieve.

sometimes it does work out, but generally unreliable guys are not winners. whiners are not winners. and with a mic always in front of guys these days its gotten even worse. im sure youll find a handful of good guys without rings, and a few bad guys with them to post back at me but..... if im trying to build a winning culture in a place that hasnt had it for over a decade - hes not a guy i touch with a ten foot pole.

[Billsrhody]

NoSaint, on 21 June 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

agree to disagree.

even if it works out, i think its luck and not a smart decision making process to add him.

how many rings did randy end up with, by the way? TO? Michael Vick? How have the cowboys been lately? jets? all the talent in the world and for some reason just cant make it over the top. there are so many of these teams that assemble talent, character be damned and more and more it seems that they underachieve.

sometimes it does work out, but generally unreliable guys are not winners. whiners are not winners. and with a mic always in front of guys these days its gotten even worse. im sure youll find a handful of good guys without rings, and a few bad guys with them to post back at me but..... if im trying to build a winning culture in a place that hasnt had it for over a decade - hes not a guy i touch with a ten foot pole.

Ben Roethlisberger, Ray Lewis, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, Marvin Harrison. just to name a few.

Questionable character guys win championships ever year.

[NoSaint]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Ben Roethlisberger, Ray Lewis, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, Marvin Harrison. just to name a few.

Questionable character guys win championships ever year.

But santonio is the only "me guy" issue on that list and he got shipped out immediately after and has continued his spiral - were talking about me-first guys not criminals with Percy. It seems you think I'm hung up on the crime of assault or drug use, and not the underlying theme of not caring about his team - my list was guys that aren't known to get in line for a common goal unless its their own success (randy ratio woooo, TO and his storied past - neither would i consider thugs or criminals, or the like - just head cases). Most of those you named are the very image of what you want in work ethic and dedication to a team. Ben would be the only other one with any locker room/team issues on the whole list and those seem to be more along the lines of just not being a warm personality. Not that I particularly want criminals either.

But when you look at the patriot way, the steeler way and then the raider way, cowboy way, jets way- one side seeks those guys, the others avoid them. It's no coincidence that your looking at the biggest dynasties of the decade on one side and punch lines on the other. I know the patriots have been bending, but ill also say it hasnt been all that awesome for them either.

Edited by NoSaint, 21 June 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Billsrhody]

NoSaint, on 21 June 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

But santonio is the only "me guy" issue on that list and he got shipped out immediately after and has continued his spiral - were talking about me-first guys not criminals with Percy. It seems you think I'm hung up on the crime of assault or drug use, and not the underlying theme of not caring about his team - my list was guys that aren't known to get in line for a common goal unless its their own success (randy ratio woooo). Most of those are the very image of what you want in work ethic and dedication to a team. Ben would be the only other one with any locker room/team issues on the whole list and those seem to be more along the lines of just not being a warm personality. Not that I particularly want criminals either.

But when you look at the patriot way, the steeler way and then the raider way, cowboy way, jets way- one side seeks those guys, the others avoid them. It's no coincidence that your looking at the biggest dynasties of the decade on one side and punch lines on the other

I would say a third of the players in the NFL are "me" guys. I wasn't listing those guys because of their legal troubles.. just their questionable characters.

I disagree with you on the "patriot way". Albert Hanesworth, Chad Ocho, Randy Moss, Assante Samuel. They always take chances on those guys.

[NoSaint]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

I would say a third of the players in the NFL are "me" guys. I wasn't listing those guys because of their legal troubles.. just their questionable characters.

I disagree with you on the "patriot way". Albert Hanesworth, Chad Ocho, Randy Moss, Assante Samuel. They always take chances on those guys.

they have started to take those chances - they didnt in the past. they also havent won the big one since that change came about. and they certainly havent invested heavily in any of those guys.

come on - your really going to argue that having team first guys, over headcases that pout or explode when someone looks at them wrong is the wrong way to build a winner?

Edited by NoSaint, 21 June 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Billsrhody]

NoSaint, on 21 June 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

they have started to take those chances - they didnt in the past. they also havent won the big one since that change came about. and they certainly havent invested heavily in any of those guys.

Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison? They've taken those chances since 2003.

Here's the interview with Percy. link Doesn't seem like a cry baby or a temper tantrum to me. I also think people mistook what he said about not being in tune with personnel to mean he wasn't studying game film, which he says he is.

[NoSaint]

Billsrhody, on 21 June 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison? They've taken those chances since 2003.

Here's the interview with Percy. link Doesn't seem like a cry baby or a temper tantrum to me. I also think people mistook what he said about not being in tune with personnel to mean he wasn't studying game film, which he says he is.

ill bet you anything in the world the coaches told him "we will do whatever it takes to keep you happy"

and its been awhile, but what were the issues with dillon and harrison, as far as putting themselves before their teams? i dont remember at all what caused the harrison release (though what i know of him as a player is win at all costs, not me at all costs gimme the ball, i dont want to work out and ill quit if you dont make me happy), and i thought dillon was a combo of being tired of losing (again, wanting to win at all costs, not do what i want) and rudi johnson having a big season before he was hurt and that he was getting older.

i still think we are speaking a different language on this.

Edited by NoSaint, 21 June 2012 - 03:58 PM.