52 replies to this topic

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

i know its minicamp but this is the guy im most excited about. sometimes it takes small school dlineman a few years to adjust.

i think carrington and heard are locks at dt,  they are both young, massive and have shown big time flashes...

i think troup wont make it because of his back.

i think spencer makes it as a 5th de/dt main swing backup...

if gilbert can beat out edwards or be just as good in camp as a pass rusher, i think they go with him because hes younger.

the kid has loads of talent...

Edited by MARCELL DAREUS POWER, 03 July 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[Luxy312]

I'm not sure I care a lot about our depth.  For once, I want to see a season where we don't have an early season ending injury to a key leader and player on either side of the ball.  Jarron Gilbert?  I'm not sure I care a lot.

[Captain Hindsight]

Luxy312, on 03 July 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

I'm not sure I care a lot about our depth.  For once, I want to see a season where we don't have an early season ending injury to a key leader and player on either side of the ball.  Jarron Gilbert?  I'm not sure I care a lot.

I agree and i dont. I like having a ton of good players not because I want to see them play but because having good players everywhere makes everyone better

[FluffHead]

MARCELL DAREUS POWER, on 03 July 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

i know its minicamp but this is the guy im most excited about. sometimes it takes small school dlineman a few years to adjust.

i think carrington and heard are locks at dt,  they are both young, massive and have shown big time flashes...

i think troup wont make it because of his back.

i think spencer makes it as a 5th de/dt main swing backup...

if gilbert can beat out edwards or be just as good in camp as a pass rusher, i think they go with him because hes younger.

the kid has loads of talent...

When he gets cut you should change your username to Jarron Gilbert Power

[jjmac]

MARCELL DAREUS POWER, on 03 July 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

i know its minicamp but this is the guy im most excited about. sometimes it takes small school dlineman a few years to adjust.

i think carrington and heard are locks at dt,  they are both young, massive and have shown big time flashes...

i think troup wont make it because of his back.

i think spencer makes it as a 5th de/dt main swing backup...

if gilbert can beat out edwards or be just as good in camp as a pass rusher, i think they go with him because hes younger.

the kid has loads of talent...

I hate to say this, but barring injury, how much of a chance does he really have at DT?  Even if we go with a 5th DT/DE (either Johnson or Carrington), that leaves Troup (who gets more of a chance since he was a 2nd-round pick), as well as Heard, who is much larger.

[....lybob]

jjmac, on 03 July 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I hate to say this, but barring injury, how much of a chance does he really have at DT?  Even if we go with a 5th DT/DE (either Johnson or Carrington), that leaves Troup (who gets more of a chance since he was a 2nd-round pick), as well as Heard, who is much larger.

Pre-draft measureables
Ht 6-5¼,  Wt 288 lb, Arm 36 in,  Hand 10 and a half,  40-yard dash 4.76  10-yd split 1.67,  20-yd split 2.70,  20 ss 4.40,  3-cone 7.59, Vert 37 in, Broad 10'07", BP 28, Wonderlic 29

Gilbert certainly has some good measurables

Edited by ....lybob, 03 July 2012 - 11:44 PM.

[Dorkington]

It's amusing that everyone dismisses Dwan Edwards when he is clearly the third best interior lineman on this team.

[stony]

Dorkington, on 04 July 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

It's amusing that everyone dismisses Dwan Edwards when he is clearly the third best interior lineman on this team.

Id take Spencer over him any day of the week. Now that it's a 4-3, I don't even think it's that close. The best thing for the Bills and Dwan is to cut/trade him quickly so he can find a 3-4 team.

[FluffHead]

stony, on 04 July 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Id take Spencer over him any day of the week. Now that it's a 4-3, I don't even think it's that close. The best thing for the Bills and Dwan is to cut/trade him quickly so he can find a 3-4 team.

I don't get why it is good for the bills to cut or trade one of the best 8 linemen we have.  I thought we were supposed to keep those guys

[MARCELL DAREUS POWER]

stony, on 04 July 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Id take Spencer over him any day of the week. Now that it's a 4-3, I don't even think it's that close. The best thing for the Bills and Dwan is to cut/trade him quickly so he can find a 3-4 team.

spence never started over dwan for 2 years...

[Doc]

However it shakes out, the Bills will have some tough cuts to make on the DL. Which is a great problem to have.

[Hopeful]

Dorkington, on 04 July 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

It's amusing that everyone dismisses Dwan Edwards when he is clearly the third best interior lineman on this team.

Curious what you base this on, Dork.  Dwan Edwards is clearly a quality football player.  

To my knowledge, he's spent his entire career playing 3-technique DE first with the Ravens in their 3-4 then with the Bills in their unfortunate 3-4.  He didn't show to advantage with the Bills, in large part because he lacked quality 3-4 OLB support (any defense featuring Chris Kelsay and Spencer Johnson as OLB is a bad defense -and we were.  Johnson and Kelsay are much better players at DE.)

When has Dwan Edwards played as an interior DL, let alone shown he's the 3rd best interior DL on this team?

[Hopeful]

MARCELL DAREUS POWER, on 03 July 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

i know its minicamp but this is the guy im most excited about. sometimes it takes small school dlineman a few years to adjust.

i think carrington and heard are locks at dt,  they are both young, massive and have shown big time flashes...

i think troup wont make it because of his back.

i think spencer makes it as a 5th de/dt main swing backup...

if gilbert can beat out edwards or be just as good in camp as a pass rusher, i think they go with him because hes younger.

the kid has loads of talent...

Heard is a prototype 3-4 NT - "blocks lots of daylight".  Whether he can adjust to playing a more agile, active 4-3 interior line position, remains to be seen when the pads go on.  
He's not shown himself to be outstandingly fast and agile in the past, which is (to be fair) not the point of a prototype 3-4 NT.  He has a spotty history - why did he leave Texas A&M with 1 season of eligibility left, to play OT in Memphis?  He went undrafted in part because of this question.  IMO he fits the Bills profile as a "sleeper" they want to develop - an unpolished physical freak with high potential IF he works hard and maintains a learning curve.  Heard saw service as a DT backup when injuries decimated us, and while he didn't embarrass himself, neither did he make people go "wow".  In case we've forgotten, our 2nd half D was most sincerely sucky, with a complete absence of QB pressure and a bottom-dwelling ability against the run.

Carrington was drafted as a 3-4 DE.   He looks to be one of the best players of the 2010 Bills draft, but that's not saying too much when your competition is Kyle Calloway, Ed Wang and the oft-injured Mr Troup,  Again, it remains to be seen if he'll adjust to playing DT on a 4-3, or if he's a good young player acquired to fit a scheme we're no longer playing thus "odd man out".

I'm not sure at all Carrington and Heard are locks as the 2nd string.

Gilbert will not beat out Edwards on the basis of camp.  Edwards has shown himself to be a quality vet when it's Sunday and it counts.  If Gilbert is kept, it will be if he shows something on ST.  If Edwards is cut, it will be because he's not seen as adjusting his proven NFL-level skills to the 4-3 and probably cut early, as a courtesy, to allow a guy who was a "good soldier" to catch on with a 3-4 team.

Edited by Hopeful, 04 July 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[3rdand12]

Well said Hopeful. I think Gilbert would stand a better chance if we did not have Kelsay at end.
But we still have so much youth to develop once we settle into a four three attacking line it's a tough call right now. Training camp should be pretty fierce this year at a couple of positions and i am looking forward to it!

[sllib olaffub]

Any way you look at it, Buddy has done a very good job of accumulating talent on this D-line.  It is a big line, even by NFL standards, and we are going to be giving other teams a couple of players by the time the season starts, but whether those guys are Troupe, Gilbert, Edwards - I'll trust Wannstedt to make the best call.  My guess is they'll keep the guys who show the most versatility, or the most outright potential.  We know Williams and Williams will be there, Dareus, Anderson, Merriman, and Kelsay will make it.  That is six linemen.  I think that leaves three spots, another D-end and two D-tackles, unless a tackle, like Carrington, can play both tackle and end.  So, I wouldn't be surprised to see the last two spots go to Carrington and Spencer Johnson, with maybe a bigger, space eating DT as the ninth, like Troupe maybe, or Gilbert?

Edited by sllib olaffub, 04 July 2012 - 10:28 AM.

[stony]

FluffHead, on 04 July 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't get why it is good for the bills to cut or trade one of the best 8 linemen we have.  I thought we were supposed to keep those guys

I think it's a numbers game and he might be the odd man out. How many back-up DTs do we keep? If it's three then he probably makes it. If it's two, it'll be more difficult. And IMO, he hasn't been that special.

MARCELL DAREUS POWER, on 04 July 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

spence never started over dwan for 2 years...

True, but Spencer Johnson was unfairly asked to play OLB in a 3-4. That's a pretty ridiculous request of a 300lb man. He's a natural 4-3 DT, not a "3" technique end in 3-4 like Edwards is. Edwards had the benefit of playing his natural position.

[Hopeful]

sllib olaffub, on 04 July 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Any way you look at it, Buddy has done a very good job of accumulating talent on this D-line.  It is a big line, even by NFL standards, and we are going to be giving other teams a couple of players by the time the season starts, but whether those guys are Troupe, Gilbert, Edwards - I'll trust Wannstedt to make the best call.  My guess is they'll keep the guys who show the most versatility, or the most outright potential.  We know Williams and Williams will be there, Dareus, Anderson, Merriman, and Kelsay will make it.  That is six linemen.  I think that leaves three spots, another D-end and two D-tackles, unless a tackle, like Carrington, can play both tackle and end.  So, I wouldn't be surprised to see the last two spots go to Carrington and Spencer Johnson, with maybe a bigger, space eating DT as the ninth, like Troupe maybe, or Gilbert?

Good assessment, slib olaffub.  You've called the 6 names who make it correctly, I think.  The next 2 or 3 are going to be a battle. Whether they keep 8 vs 9 DL on the active roster depends on 1) talent assessment at LB and DB - are there 6 or 7 LB they want to keep? 10 or 11 DB? 2) Special teams performance 3) injuries during training camp and preseason 4) practice squad eligibility.  

Who those 8 or 9 guys are depends on injuries, TC and preseason performance.  It wouldn't shock me to see Edwards make the team as one of the 2 "swing guys" if he's healthy and adjusting well.  It wouldn't shock me to see him released.
I don't think we'll have room this year for Merriman if there are any doubts he's 100% full go, unless they count him as a swing DE/OLB able to back up both.

NFL practice squad rules make my head hurt.  Is Gilbert still eligible?  He's played in the NFL 3 seasons, and it looks as though he was active for 6 games for the Jets in 2010, 3 games for the Bills in 2011. but all season in 2009 for the Bears.
So I'm thinking he is NOT PS eligible.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Apparently I'm the only one posting in this thread who thinks that salary might play a part in the roster decisions on the defensive line… and that's a good thing if the Bills have gotten past money being a factor in their roster decisions.

However keep in mind that Spencer Johnson will make $3 million this year (the last of his contract) and that Dwan Edwards will be making $3.8 million this year.

That's a LOT of money for reserve defensive linemen and I'm skeptical at best that these salaries won't factor into the final decisions.

Edited by San Jose Bills Fan, 04 July 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[Why So Serious?]

San Jose Bills Fan, on 04 July 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Apparently I'm the only one posting in this thread who thinks that salary might play a part in the roster decisions on the defensive line… and that's a good thing if the Bills have gotten past money being a factor in their roster decisions.

However keep in mind that Spencer Johnson will make $3 million this year (the last of his contract) and that Dwan Edwards will be making $3.8 million this year.

That's a LOT of money for reserve defensive linemen and I'm skeptical at best that these salaries won't factor into the final decisions.

Also amazing how no one has actually discussed how Jarron Gilbert has looked in mini-camp at all.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Why So Serious?, on 04 July 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Also amazing how no one has actually discussed how Jarron Gilbert has looked in mini-camp at all.

Kinda funny… at least no one's talking about TJ Graham's "holdout."

I guess it's virtually impossible to discuss this topic because we don't have access and there's no contact until training camp… so it's impossible for us to discuss how Gilbert or any of the linemen, have looked so far.

Clearly the recurring theme in this topic is that the Bills seem pretty loaded on the D-line.