Jump to content


4 days later and there are 2 plays I still can't get over


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Why So Serious?

Why So Serious?

    RIP Ralph Wilson

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,816 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:46 AM

Over my lifetime as a Bills fan, I have plenty experience brushing off loses with the new and interesting ways the Bills find to lose games.

Giving up 45 points after having a two TD lead in the 3rd is shooting up the charts in the very competetive top 10 list of worst Bills' losses all time.

TWo plays that still Boggle my mind and had a huge impact on the game that I can't get over:

1.) If Spiller has a bum shoulder why are you giving him the ball against a goal line defense? Odds of having 300lb+ plus people attack his shoulder are very high. Why wouldn't you have FJax or Choice run the dive play? If Choice were in they'd be looking for a screen anyway. I just cannot understand how a coaching staff takes that risk when there are other viable options. Shocker, the RB with a shoulder injury Fumbles on a goal line carry.

2.) How in any defense scheme is Gronk allowed to cruise from the line of scrimage to the goaline without anyone near him. Yes coverages get blown, but how does that happen that bad? There should be some kind of saftey valves. If you had 4 people assigned to soley cover Gronk and Welker you can live with Branch and Lloyd beating you. He only broke the record for TDs last year. How that happens I can't understand.

Edited by Why So Serious?, 04 October 2012 - 03:23 PM.


#2 CodeMonkey

CodeMonkey

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,225 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:49 AM

1) You don't. Big blunder.

2) It happens, and not just to the Bills.  There were several Bills left all by themselves a couple time as well that resulted in big plays for the Bills.

Time to put that little piece of manure pie away and focus on SF.

#3 K-9

K-9

    Long Timer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,614 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

View PostWhy So Serious?, on 04 October 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Over my lifetime as a Bills fan, I have plenty experience brushing off loses and the new and interesting ways the Bills find to lose games.

Giving up 45 points after having a two TD lead in the 3rd is shooting up the charts in the very competetive top 10 list of worst Bills' losses all time.

TWo plays that still Boggle my mind and had a huge impact on the game that I can't get over:

1.) If Spiller has a bum shoulder why are you giving him the ball against goal line defense? Odds of having 300lb+ plus people attack his shoulder are very high. Why wouldnou have FJax or Choice run the dive play? If Choice were in they'd be looking for a screen anyway. I just cannot understand how a coaching staff takes that risk when there are other viable options. Shocker, the RB with a shoulder injury Fumbles on a goal line carry.

2.) How in any defense scheme is Gronk allowed to cruise from the line of scrimage to the goaline without anyone near him. Yes coverages get blown, but how does that happen that bad? There should be some kind of saftey valves. If you had 4 people assigned to soley cover Gronk and Welker you can live with Branch and lloyd beating you. He only broke the record for TDs last year. How that happens I can't understand.

1.) Agreed. That's not putting an injured Spiller in the best place to succeed. It could be argued to Gailey that anybody but CJ should have carried the ball down there.

2.) How does Gronk get so wide open? It's easy when the defense has NO SS to cover him for starters and when those poor safeties bite on play fakes and blow assignments, it makes it that much easier. George Wilson is not very good and Bryan Scott has gotten more out of a past good game against Antonio Gates than anyone in history. But as poor a safety as Scott is, he's even a worse nickel LB from what I saw on Sunday. Again, that's on the coaches for putting average players in the worst spot to succeed.

GO BILLS!!!

#4 T master

T master

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,665 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

The one huge thing in this loss is that the offense scored enough to win the game , sure the Spiller question is totally valid & i agree with it b/c cause if we had those points it would have helped .

Even with those extra points from Spiller scoring we would have had what 31 , well i hate to tell you but when the D lets the Pats score 52 that would't have helped in anyway shape or form , we still would have lost !!

My question is WHERE DID THE D GO TO IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE GAME ??????????

I don't care what team you are if your D gives up 52 points i will be willing to bet vital body parts that YOUR GONNA LOOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mario was a NONE FACTOR - Anderson was a NONE FACTOR - K Williams was the only one up front really doing any thing & he got fined for it .

To run a smaller nickle package against those guys didn't work ! The D is going to have to play better & i think they will learn from this defeat ... I Hope !!!

#5 Dorkington

Dorkington

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,549 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:18 AM

Explanation:

The Bills suck.

#6 K-9

K-9

    Long Timer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,614 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:34 AM

View PostT master, on 04 October 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

... My question is WHERE DID THE D GO TO IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE GAME ??????????

I don't care what team you are if your D gives up 52 points i will be willing to bet vital body parts that YOUR GONNA LOOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mario was a NONE FACTOR - Anderson was a NONE FACTOR - K Williams was the only one up front really doing any thing & he got fined for it .

To run a smaller nickle package against those guys didn't work ! The D is going to have to play better & i think they will learn from this defeat ... I Hope !!!

A couple stops aside, the defense didn't have a very good first half in terms of stopping the Patriots. They ran on us in the first half quite well. They shot themselves in the foot with TOs and missed FGs and our D deserves some credit for that but it's not like we dominated them in the first half. Quite the opposite.

GO BILLS!!!

Edited by K-9, 04 October 2012 - 11:34 AM.


#7 bobobonators

bobobonators

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,514 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:57 AM

View PostWhy So Serious?, on 04 October 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Over my lifetime as a Bills fan, I have plenty experience brushing off loses and the new and interesting ways the Bills find to lose games.

Giving up 45 points after having a two TD lead in the 3rd is shooting up the charts in the very competetive top 10 list of worst Bills' losses all time.

TWo plays that still Boggle my mind and had a huge impact on the game that I can't get over:

1.) If Spiller has a bum shoulder why are you giving him the ball against goal line defense? Odds of having 300lb+ plus people attack his shoulder are very high. Why wouldnou have FJax or Choice run the dive play? If Choice were in they'd be looking for a screen anyway. I just cannot understand how a coaching staff takes that risk when there are other viable options. Shocker, the RB with a shoulder injury Fumbles on a goal line carry.

2.) How in any defense scheme is Gronk allowed to cruise from the line of scrimage to the goaline without anyone near him. Yes coverages get blown, but how does that happen that bad? There should be some kind of saftey valves. If you had 4 people assigned to soley cover Gronk and Welker you can live with Branch and lloyd beating you. He only broke the record for TDs last year. How that happens I can't understand.

I hear ya man.  Regarding #2:  it was sad to see Scott completely lost in coverage on that play.  No clue.  Probably the easiest TD Gronk will have in his career - him and Brady were playing catch at the park on that play.

Regarding #1:  I woul'dve preferred seeing FJ on that play just bc freddy has been always one to fight for the extra yard or two...felt bad for CJ though..

#8 Big C

Big C

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,995 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

1) If they would have ran a pitch to Spiller like in the KC game, even if that's what NE was expecting, I think C.J. would have gotten the TD. When they lined up that's what I was waiting for and I couldn't believe Chan tried that play instead. Bad call on so many levels.

2) Not much else to say there. Gronk is obviously a remarkable talent, but we hardly put up a fight. The only guy who made plays on Gronk was Gilmore, and he wasn't even assigned to him. He stopped at Gronk TD twice. If he made that interception in the endzone, we would have had the chance to tie it back up.

#9 fan_in_tx

fan_in_tx

    UDFA

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 91 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:09 PM

View PostWhy So Serious?, on 04 October 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Over my lifetime as a Bills fan, I have plenty experience brushing off loses and the new and interesting ways the Bills find to lose games.

Giving up 45 points after having a two TD lead in the 3rd is shooting up the charts in the very competetive top 10 list of worst Bills' losses all time.

TWo plays that still Boggle my mind and had a huge impact on the game that I can't get over:

1.) If Spiller has a bum shoulder why are you giving him the ball against goal line defense? Odds of having 300lb+ plus people attack his shoulder are very high. Why wouldnou have FJax or Choice run the dive play? If Choice were in they'd be looking for a screen anyway. I just cannot understand how a coaching staff takes that risk when there are other viable options. Shocker, the RB with a shoulder injury Fumbles on a goal line carry.

2.) How in any defense scheme is Gronk allowed to cruise from the line of scrimage to the goaline without anyone near him. Yes coverages get blown, but how does that happen that bad? There should be some kind of saftey valves. If you had 4 people assigned to soley cover Gronk and Welker you can live with Branch and lloyd beating you. He only broke the record for TDs last year. How that happens I can't understand.

Revisiting the Spiller fumble,,, where the heck was the Corey Mac trap play that was used last year at the 1 where he flattened Wolfork for the score????   Guess we don't learn from previous success.

#10 kas23

kas23

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,942 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

I dunno, if I'm at the goal line and I'm going to try to run it in, I get the ball into the hands of the most electrifying player we have. The player that leads our team in rushing yards and rushing TDs. We can't all just assume that the fumble was a result of his shoulder still being injured. If the team thought his shoulder injury was going to be a liability, he wouldn't have been playing, let alone receive a hand-off at the goal line. If he made it in, we would all be saying something totally different. Truth is, **** happens and it did on that play.

#11 fan_in_tx

fan_in_tx

    UDFA

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 91 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:42 PM

View Postkas23, on 04 October 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

I dunno, if I'm at the goal line and I'm going to try to run it in, I get the ball into the hands of the most electrifying player we have. The player that leads our team in rushing yards and rushing TDs. We can't all just assume that the fumble was a result of his shoulder still being injured. If the team thought his shoulder injury was going to be a liability, he wouldn't have been playing, let alone receive a hand-off at the goal line. If he made it in, we would all be saying something totally different. Truth is, **** happens and it did on that play.
  Agreed but, a lead blocker at the goal line may have made all the difference..  thats all I am saying.. not questioning the Spiller choice but I wonder why do we have 2 power fullbacks on this team if we are not going to use them in the run game?

#12 Direhard Fan

Direhard Fan

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 375 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:08 PM

Sorry  No. 1  POOR Coaching   Spiller was not 100% period.  Use your big men or speed to the out side.  I cryed.  We don't have that killer additude.
       No. 2  POOR Coaching.  Wannie has been a bigger bust that Mario.  Maybe he has a sprained wrist also.

#13 MDH

MDH

    My mind is going...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,304 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:50 PM

View Postkas23, on 04 October 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

I dunno, if I'm at the goal line and I'm going to try to run it in, I get the ball into the hands of the most electrifying player we have. The player that leads our team in rushing yards and rushing TDs. We can't all just assume that the fumble was a result of his shoulder still being injured. If the team thought his shoulder injury was going to be a liability, he wouldn't have been playing, let alone receive a hand-off at the goal line. If he made it in, we would all be saying something totally different. Truth is, **** happens and it did on that play.

Fred Jackson does everything better than Spiller other than having break-away speed.  Why is break away speed needed at the goal line?  Are you suggesting that Spiller does a better job reading blocks, finding a crease, hitting it hard and moving the pile if need be?  Because I've yet to see him do any of those things anywhere near the level that Jackson does.

#14 Bronc24

Bronc24

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,106 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:56 PM

Answer:  Ralph is cheap.

#15 l< j

l< j

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,200 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:05 PM

Wait, it's only been 4 days?

#16 Why So Serious?

Why So Serious?

    RIP Ralph Wilson

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,816 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostMDH, on 04 October 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Fred Jackson does everything better than Spiller other than having break-away speed.  Why is break away speed needed at the goal line?  Are you suggesting that Spiller does a better job reading blocks, finding a crease, hitting it hard and moving the pile if need be?  Because I've yet to see him do any of those things anywhere near the level that Jackson does.
Thank you. If FJAX and Freddy are both healthy. FJAX is always the better option for a goalline dive play. His greatest asset is he always finds away to FALL FORWARD for an extra yard or two. Where as Spiller finds ways to FALL SIDEWAYS or FALL BACKward.  It seems to me this is a skill and learned behavior that you need to have discipline to use. If you are going down advance the ball on the way to the ground. There are techniques to doing that. Thurman Thomas had the skill. He even started running backward into piles to essentially squat the tackling players forward and advance the ball. (Sometimes he would do this too often or for no apparent reason in the open field at the end of his career.)
My Point being, Spiller needs to learn how FJAX falls forward and advances the ball and realize this is more important to a "Feature" back than break away speed.

#17 starrymessenger

starrymessenger

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,004 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

Re 1: Spiller was also favouring his shoulder in pass pro, and
Re 2: Scott was on the field to run with Gronk, not let Gronk run past him.
Now does any of that make sense?

#18 Why So Serious?

Why So Serious?

    RIP Ralph Wilson

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,816 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:36 PM

View Postfan_in_tx, on 04 October 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Revisiting the Spiller fumble,,, where the heck was the Corey Mac trap play that was used last year at the 1 where he flattened Wolfork for the score????   Guess we don't learn from previous success.
That was my brother's point; almost exactly. "Where was Corey Mac? Didn't he flatten Wilfork last year?"

View Poststarrymessenger, on 04 October 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Re 1: Spiller was also favouring his shoulder in pass pro, and
Re 2: Scott was on the field to run with Gronk, not let Gronk run past him.
Now does any of that make sense?
We were in that 4-1-6 defense. Ans Scott was the LB. If Scott blows coverage it seems that there are enough DBs that there should be a Safety over the top.

My point is Scott is getting all the blame but there has got to be 2 seperate blown coverages on that play for that to happen.
How could they screw up that bad with that particular player? Of all the players on the field you should have a Michael Vick like "spy" on Gronk at all times.

#19 North Buffalo

North Buffalo

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

View Postfan_in_tx, on 04 October 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Revisiting the Spiller fumble,,, where the heck was the Corey Mac trap play that was used last year at the 1 where he flattened Wolfork for the score????   Guess we don't learn from previous success.
Wilfork was allowed to get up and come in from behind and rip it out without any protection from a Bills players.  He was flattened, the play should have been blown dead for forward progress, still no Bill protected Spiller from the pile that was on top of him.

The thing that sticks in my head was the fantom ruffing the passer call and there is now way a fine should have resulted and PS Brady's knee was down.  That being said, there was no pass rush and Brady picked Bills apart in the second half.  I went to the game, my first in a few years and was joyous after the first half and beffuddled by the end of the 3rd quarter....  No adjustments by the Bills coaching staff, no blitzes and no paybacks to Patriot players tacking cheap shots that the refs were not calling.

Reminded me of the Sabres after the Lucic incident.  They played like a bunch of wimps except Gilmore who was outstanding.

Edited by North Buffalo, 04 October 2012 - 03:51 PM.


#20 jboyst62

jboyst62

    Hall of Farmer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,855 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

1) Bad coaching

2) GW goof'd, bad play calling.

That's all that needs to be said.