31 replies to this topic

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Looking back at the last 9 drafts(not including 2012) we have selected 83 players, out of those 83 just 5 have made a pro bowl. That's right 5! Those 5 are:

Kyle Williams 1(as an alt)
Jairus Byrd 1
Marshawn Lynch 1(no longer with the team)
Willis Mcgahee 1(no longer with the team)
Terrence McGee 1(as a special teamer)

That is depressing.

[Carey Bender]

What is the average rate of Pro Bowlers drafted?

[shadowcat10]

Hazed and Amuzed, on 02 November 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Looking back at the last 9 drafts(not including 2012) we have selected 83 players, out of those 83 just 5 have made a pro bowl. That's right 5! Those 5 are:

Kyle Williams 1(as an alt)
Jairus Byrd 1
Marshawn Lynch 1(no longer with the team)
Willis Mcgahee 1(no longer with the team)
Terrence McGee 1(as a special teamer)

That is depressing.

And that is a surprise to you? Why do you think that this team has not made the playoffs in a dozen years.

[kobe808lak]

Bad drafting + bad coaching = limited chance at success with mediocre players

[BillsVet]

kobe808lak, on 02 November 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Bad drafting + bad coaching = limited chance at success with mediocre players

DJ had less overall talent, especially at QB and still managed to win 42% of his games. What's transpired since Nix and Gailey came in hasn't been a rebuild, just a tearing down.

[2003Contenders]

Continuity has also been a major problem. Think about the coaching (and front office) turnover during those 9 years:

Gregg Williams/Donahoe (hybrid 4-6 defense then shifted to more of a zone blitzing scheme with LeBeau)
Mike Mularkey/Donahoe (at least maintained DC)
Dick Jauron/Marv (Tampa Cover-2 defense)
Perry Fewell/Essentially no GM
Chan Gailey/Buddy (3-4 defense, then shifted to 4-3)

[Hplarrm]

Add to this the clear poor management (without regard to whom you want to blame for this it is clearly a poor outcome) prior to the Donahoe item which begins your list the history just prior to this was:

Early 90s- The glory years for a team led by several now HOF quality players like Bruce, Jimbo, Thurman and near HOFers likeTasker and Reed.
1996- Ralph makes a handshake deal onlly he could make to reward Jimbo in his next contract (a move which is totally illegal on the salary cap and demontrates blatant disregard for his fellow business partners in the nFL and I suspect is part of the reason for the difficult to justify delay in his entry into the HOF).  This football judgment by Mr. Ralph was simply wrong wrong wrong and happened in conjunction with his fiiring of Bill Polian as GM.

1997- on Due to Kelly retirement the team rushes Todd Collins to start (even though he clearly has happy feet under the pass rush.  This leads to the team making a series of failed movves at QB featuring desperate acquisitions of bad players (like Hobert), stupid overpayments (RJ), violating their word (team told Fluties he wou8ld get a shot to win the job on the field but the guaranteed contract to RJ showed this was a lie and then they mismanaged the contracts given sso when Flutie met his performance targets the Bills were forced to extend him.

1998- on- Mr. Ralph demonstrably mismanaged time with Wade Phillips as HC as he not only fired Philips (the last HC who led the Bills to the playoffs) but then was forced by the league to pay him when we tried to stiff him

2000= Mr. Ralph demonstrbly developed a poor relationship with GM John Butler who left the team in a lurch for SD which led to the hiring of Donahoe.

We owe mr. Rlph a debt f gratitude for keeping the team here when there was likely more $ to be made if he moved the team to LA, but it seems pretty clear that along with the deserved praise for the 90s he is directly in charge of the mismanagement of this team from the mid 90s on

2003Contenders, on 02 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Continuity has also been a major problem. Think about the coaching (and front office) turnover during those 9 years:

Gregg Williams/Donahoe (hybrid 4-6 defense then shifted to more of a zone blitzing scheme with LeBeau)
Mike Mularkey/Donahoe (at least maintained DC)
Dick Jauron/Marv (Tampa Cover-2 defense)
Perry Fewell/Essentially no GM
Chan Gailey/Buddy (3-4 defense, then shifted to 4-3)

[freester]

Buddy has drafted as bad as any other GM the bills have had.  He needs to retire.  Trading Marshawn and drafting Spiller was a colossal error as well as drafting CB in the first two rounds.  Teams that draft RB and CB early don't win.

[BuffBill]

freester, on 02 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Buddy has drafted as bad as any other GM the bills have had.  He needs to retire.  Trading Marshawn and drafting Spiller was a colossal error as well as drafting CB in the first two rounds.  Teams that draft RB and CB early don't win.

I totally agree.  Spiller has looked real good as of the past 12-15 games, but since the trade of Lynch and drafting Spiller, Lynch has still been the much better back.  They could have kept him and used that high pick elsewhere, on a team with so many holes it just seemed like common sense?

[freester]

BuffBill, on 02 November 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

I totally agree.  Spiller has looked real good as of the past 12-15 games, but since the trade of Lynch and drafting Spiller, Lynch has still been the much better back.  They could have kept him and used that high pick elsewhere, on a team with so many holes it just seemed like common sense?

If I was GM I would never draft a RB, CB, S, P, PK, in the first round.  I would pick a G only at the end of the round and reluctantly.  Unfortunately these are the positions the bills continue to waste first round picks on.

[RyanC883]

Not good, but unsurprising given our record.  Trading McGahee and Lynch were to colloquial errors (as good as Spiller is) when the team had so many other needs.

[CardinalScotts]

Hazed and Amuzed, on 02 November 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Looking back at the last 9 drafts(not including 2012) we have selected 83 players, out of those 83 just 5 have made a pro bowl. That's right 5! Those 5 are:

Kyle Williams 1(as an alt)
Jairus Byrd 1
Marshawn Lynch 1(no longer with the team)
Willis Mcgahee 1(no longer with the team)
Terrence McGee 1(as a special teamer)

That is depressing.

your basing it on pro bowls ?????

[Hazed and Amuzed]

CardinalScotts, on 02 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

your basing it on pro bowls ?????

In this post yes I am.
Would you like me to base it on how many starters this team has drafted? Out of those 83 picks only 31 have been a starter for 1 season or more and out of those only 21 were starters for 2 years or more. So less than 1 in 4 who were drafted were able to maintain a starting job in the NFL for more than a year.

Edited by Hazed and Amuzed, 02 November 2012 - 12:35 PM.

[Kipers Hair]

Carey Bender, on 02 November 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

What is the average rate of Pro Bowlers drafted?

That is the question - numbers on their own are just that...numbers.  Intuitively, it looks bad, but who knows, it might well be in the 80% of the bell...

freester, on 02 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Buddy has drafted as bad as any other GM the bills have had.  He needs to retire.  Trading Marshawn and drafting Spiller was a colossal error as well as drafting CB in the first two rounds.  Teams that draft RB and CB early don't win.

What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best.  He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction.  Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit.  The only things I will slight him for at this time are;  The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson.  I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny....

[kobe808lak]

Kipers Hair, on 02 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

That is the question - numbers on their own are just that...numbers.  Intuitively, it looks bad, but who knows, it might well be in the 80% of the bell...

What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best.  He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction.  Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit.  The only things I will slight him for at this time are;  The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson.  I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny....

Nix is responsible for Wanny...

[freester]

Kipers Hair, on 02 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

That is the question - numbers on their own are just that...numbers.  Intuitively, it looks bad, but who knows, it might well be in the 80% of the bell...

What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best.  He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction.  Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit.  The only things I will slight him for at this time are;  The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson.  I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny....

Why do you think that Nix has done "a fine job" ?   His record is worse than the Jauron era despite massive free agent signings.  He is on his second incompetent def coordinator.  We have the worse group of LB in the league, and his drafts have been abysmal. and lets not forget John Potter

[BillsVet]

Kipers Hair, on 02 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

What Nix inherited was a train wreck at best.  He has done a fine job putting the team onto the right direction.  Perhaps we can all admit now, we were a little worse off than we were willing to admit.  The only things I will slight him for at this time are;  The massive Fitz Contract and not obtaining a complement to Stevie Johnson.  I am hanging our defense woes squarely on the shoulders of Wanny....

Somewhere else I've heard that the job inherited was too much to solve in only a few years...

[Best Player Available]

freester, on 02 November 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Why do you think that Nix has done "a fine job" ?   His record is worse than the Jauron era despite massive free agent signings.  He is on his second incompetent def coordinator.  We have the worse group of LB in the league, and his drafts have been abysmal. and lets not forget John Potter

Let's give a big shout out to the corners and safety's,if were passing out incompetence awards.

[the skycap]

BuffBill, on 02 November 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

I totally agree.  Spiller has looked real good as of the past 12-15 games, but since the trade of Lynch and drafting Spiller, Lynch has still been the much better back.  They could have kept him and used that high pick elsewhere, on a team with so many holes it just seemed like common sense?

BuffBill lest u forget that Lynch was a problem in the community and was run out of town by BillsNation!

[Marauder24]

2003Contenders, on 02 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Continuity has also been a major problem. Think about the coaching (and front office) turnover during those 9 years:

Gregg Williams/Donahoe (hybrid 4-6 defense then shifted to more of a zone blitzing scheme with LeBeau)
Mike Mularkey/Donahoe (at least maintained DC)
Dick Jauron/Marv (Tampa Cover-2 defense)
Perry Fewell/Essentially no GM
Chan Gailey/Buddy (3-4 defense, then shifted to 4-3)

I agree.  I've said this a number of times....drafting for a 3 -4 we were not equipped to play and then abandoning the concept a year later was a horrible decision and set this team even further back.