Jump to content


I was wrong about Fitzpatrick and my evaluations of our weaknesses


  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#1 JohnnyGold

JohnnyGold

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 642 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:42 AM

I know this is the internet, so I should never admit defeat, but a few things:

I was wrong about us beating the Patriots this week, and more specifically, wrong about them being on the decline. That is a team that can put points on the scoreboard. However, I maintain that they're not getting any younger, and we're getting closer to them. Maybe that says more about the Bills than about the Patriots, but next year, we finish ahead of them.

I'm not ready to say I'm wrong about us making the playoffs. The 5 seeded colts are 3 games ahead of us with 7 to go. We play Miami this week, they play the Patriots. Then, we play the Colts the following week. Following that, the Colts fly to Detroit, and we come home to play Jacksonville. 3 winnable games for us, 3 losable games for them. This season could look totally different in a few weeks, so I'll still be watching, and you should too.

Finally, and what I really wanted to get to, I was wrong about Fitzpatrick. All season I was beating the drum that Thigpen should take over, or better yet, Jackson. Point blank, fitzy has been getting it done lately. We have the 32nd ranked defense in the league: In 4 of our losses this year, we scored 28, 28, 34 and 31 points. The TWENTY SEVENTH ranked defense in the league allows 27.6 points a game. Just that little of a jump, from 32nd to 27th ranked defense could result in 4 more wins. Basically, Fitz is being handicapped by how bad our defense is. The top 10 defenses in the league all allow under 21 points a game, which would get us another "win." So having a top 10 defense, with the offense we have now, would be good for % more wins, or a 8-1 record.
*Disclaimer: I know there a lot of "what-ifs" in the scenario I just created, but it's for the sake of discussion.

The point to all of this: Keep Gailey-he's doing just fine. Keep Fitz-he can win if our D plays better. Fire Wanny, draft linebackers, get a SOLID #2 wideout, and... I cant believe I'm about to say this... but give Fitz one more year :(

#2 jjmac

jjmac

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,722 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:56 AM

I'd like to share your muted optimism, but I must think our defense has too many well-publicized holes for us to make the playoffs this year.

#3 Charles Romes

Charles Romes

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 751 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:14 AM

There are no no-brainer franchise QBs coming out next year but about 10 expected to be drafted in rounds 1-3.  Take a shot on one of these in the second round.

#4 peanuts

peanuts

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 308 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:22 AM

I also think we have a third rate receiving core. Chandler is a weapon and so is Stevie, so  are the  RB catching swing passes helps..Fitzy did his job yesterday and so did the running game.. LB's are super slow and not attacking..

#5 Ryan L Billz

Ryan L Billz

    Mad Man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,061 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

View Postpeanuts, on 12 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

I also think we have a third rate receiving core. Chandler is a weapon and so is Stevie, so  are the  RB catching swing passes helps..Fitzy did his job yesterday and so did the running game.. LB's are super slow and not attacking..

:thumbdown:  Jones made plays all day, Stevie looked good, Chandler made plays     3rd rate recieving core is a brutal statement IMO.

give the guys a lil love, Jones especially is much improved.

#6 DFITZ1

DFITZ1

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 453 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

I agree you can't totally blame Fitz for this loss. However, top money franchise QB's MAKE CLUTCH PLAYS. Once again, he didn't. And not being a downfield threat limits the offense. As for the defense, it is our number 1 achilles heal. Fitz, Cj, Frddie, Stevie and the gang must put up 28+ points to keep up with their ineptitude. That;'s insane - your O scores over 30 points, you should win.

#7 Billshank Redemption

Billshank Redemption

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 826 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

I disagree we have to address fitz. Wanny needs to go yes, but a team like the colts with worse talent all around then us is 6-3 compared to 3-6 because they have a good qb. Its time to address it.

#8 peterpan

peterpan

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,130 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

I disagree.  Fitz is average at best.  The things he does for this team is basically what 30 other NFL QBs could do.  What he doesn't give us is where he stinks.  He has terrible pocket pressence.  At one point in the 2nd quarter he litterally sacked himself by stepping up into a blocked defender.  Plus, he is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.  With every dropp back, I am sitting there thinking 'Oh no Oh no Oh no....' It just so happens that in two of the last three games it took him all game before he threw another crucial, game killing INT - which has been his MO his entire time in Buffalo.

Plus, think of how his limitations hurt our O.  I know we score a lot of points, but I think thats bc our O has a good design from Gailey.  Fitz is useless if he has to throw more than 15 yards.  So defenses don't even really have to cover that area of the field.  Same thing with the sidelines - Fitz cant throw it that far with any velocity or accuracy and it makes it that much easier to defend.

Plus, we never run the ball.  Gailey needs to call more run plays and get on Fitz about always checking out of plays to stupid throws.

9 carries for Spiller? Its a joke.  Everyone watching these games sees what needs to be done and our NFL staff can't see it?  WTF.

#9 jr1

jr1

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,617 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

Fitz had 2 turnovers yesterday. You can't make those mistakes when the team has 5 losses already

#10 PatsFanNH

PatsFanNH

    Practice Squad

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 193 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:43 AM

Yesterdays game was GAWD Awful for both teams. Both made to many DUMB penalties. That said the O for the Bills was fine and attacking the weakness (per rosy colvin this AM on 985) of any 3-4 defense by hitting the TE and  RB out of the backfield going against LB and lets be honest sometime d lineman in coverage. BRILLANT game plan by your OC.

As for the OP notion the Pats getting old? On D they are EXTREMLY YOUNG, and on O we have 2 stud young TE a rather young O line.. Brady has 2-3 top performing years left and Welker and Lloyd well be good for awhile IMO. Are the Bills close? Honestly I dont know both teams played gawd awful D yesterday and neither D is truly that bad... OR that dumb with penalties usually.

#11 Triple Threat

Triple Threat

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,776 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:50 AM

" In 4 of our losses this year, we scored 28, 28, 34 and 31 points."  Yet somehow their QB was able to score more.  Why can't ours?

Brady's defense gave up 31 points, but they still won.

#12 Mango

Mango

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 791 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:01 AM

However bad the Bills are, Chan has figured out how to play the Pats. How to put up points and we are keeping it close generally.  I know there have been some bad moments but it has taken colossal defensive break downs for the Pats to beat us under Gailey.  Pats at home or on the road is not the walk in the park it has been for them in the past.

That said he can't seem to beat the Jets

#13 JohnnyGold

JohnnyGold

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 642 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:02 AM

View PostPatsFanNH, on 12 November 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Yesterdays game was GAWD Awful for both teams. Both made to many DUMB penalties. That said the O for the Bills was fine and attacking the weakness (per rosy colvin this AM on 985) of any 3-4 defense by hitting the TE and  RB out of the backfield going against LB and lets be honest sometime d lineman in coverage. BRILLANT game plan by your OC.

As for the OP notion the Pats getting old? On D they are EXTREMLY YOUNG, and on O we have 2 stud young TE a rather young O line.. Brady has 2-3 top performing years left and Welker and Lloyd well be good for awhile IMO. Are the Bills close? Honestly I dont know both teams played gawd awful D yesterday and neither D is truly that bad... OR that dumb with penalties usually.

extremely young and extremely bad. we hung 31 on them yesterday.

in terms of them getting "old," i am referring to one player, and one player only. we all know who that is. it is no coincidence that every year after he hit 30, they have looked more and more vulnerable. HE is not getting any younger, and they are not going to make some amazing leap forward next year. just looking at the conference standings, you can see the conference separating-and the patriots are no longer one of the 2 best teams in the conference, like they have been for the past 10 years. the gap between us keeps closing. our last 4 games against the patriots have been good games, and we could have won all of them. finally, the gap is closing. that's all im saying. there was no catching the patriots for a decade, now its possible.

#14 FeartheLosing

FeartheLosing

    In our prayers

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,744 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

View Postpeterpan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

I disagree.  Fitz is average at best.  The things he does for this team is basically what 30 other NFL QBs could do.  What he doesn't give us is where he stinks. He has terrible pocket pressence.  At one point in the 2nd quarter he litterally sacked himself by stepping up into a blocked defender.  Plus, he is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.  With every dropp back, I am sitting there thinking 'Oh no Oh no Oh no....' It just so happens that in two of the last three games it took him all game before he threw another crucial, game killing INT - which has been his MO his entire time in Buffalo.

Plus, think of how his limitations hurt our O.  I know we score a lot of points, but I think thats bc our O has a good design from Gailey.  Fitz is useless if he has to throw more than 15 yards.  So defenses don't even really have to cover that area of the field.  Same thing with the sidelines - Fitz cant throw it that far with any velocity or accuracy and it makes it that much easier to defend.

Plus, we never run the ball.  Gailey needs to call more run plays and get on Fitz about always checking out of plays to stupid throws.

9 carries for Spiller? Its a joke.
  Everyone watching these games sees what needs to be done and our NFL staff can't see it?  WTF.
Sad, but true!
What we didn't know about Fitz back in 2010 is what he would do when the chips are down and the game is on the line. We now found out that he chokes time after time, and that is the difference between a average QB and a great QB, between him and QB's like Big Ben. You would think that Gailey would have worked with Fitz more often on the 2 min drill and how important those clutch game winning passes are, he hasn't because Gailey is also a loser and doesn't know how to win.

That Titans game spoke volumes about both Fitz and Gailey. 1:03 to go with the ball on the Bills 20, and 60 yards to go for a game winning field goal. 4 passes and done, they couldn't even make a first down! This was against a horrible Tenn defense!

I noticed lots of comparisons in the off season in this forum between Fitz and Eli Manning. The stats is where that comparison ends because with the game on the line Eli wins it and Fitz chokes. Not really Fitz's fault that Gailey is a bigger loser then Fitz. Sure he can call a decent game, and get production out of his super star RBs. The simple fact is the RB's don't see enough work in Gaileys offense. Gailey even acknowledged the RB's need to get 40 touches and instead gives Fitz 40 attempts.  Like PP stated 9 carries for a guy who is averaging 7.7 yards per carry is a joke, and the only fans laughing are the Patriots fans, even they all are happy Spiller only sees 9 carries while Fitz gets 40 attempts


What is crazy is most fans watch the bills offense and come away thinking OH YEA,WE ARE GOOD! The fact is the Patriots have the 25th ranked defense and are not that good. The bills showed what they can really do on offense against a good top defense 45-3 against the 49ers- 21-9 against the Texans.  As much as lots of fans think the Bills are "close" or "almost there" they are wrong.

The Bills are 31st on defense and so freaking far away from being good! The Bills are 15th on offense because of the running game that Gailey refuses to commit to the entire game. The Bills are 25th in passing and 6th in rushing and should be #1 in rushing, no other NFL team has a pair of RB's as good as Spiller and Jackson. Instead Jackass Gailey lets Fitz throw 40 times a game :wallbash:

#15 metzelaars_lives

metzelaars_lives

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,427 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:27 AM

View Postpeterpan, on 12 November 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

I disagree.  Fitz is average at best.  The things he does for this team is basically what 30 other NFL QBs could do.  What he doesn't give us is where he stinks.  He has terrible pocket pressence.  At one point in the 2nd quarter he litterally sacked himself by stepping up into a blocked defender.  Plus, he is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.  With every dropp back, I am sitting there thinking 'Oh no Oh no Oh no....' It just so happens that in two of the last three games it took him all game before he threw another crucial, game killing INT - which has been his MO his entire time in Buffalo.

Plus, think of how his limitations hurt our O.  I know we score a lot of points, but I think thats bc our O has a good design from Gailey.  Fitz is useless if he has to throw more than 15 yards.  So defenses don't even really have to cover that area of the field.  Same thing with the sidelines - Fitz cant throw it that far with any velocity or accuracy and it makes it that much easier to defend.

Plus, we never run the ball.  Gailey needs to call more run plays and get on Fitz about always checking out of plays to stupid throws.

9 carries for Spiller? Its a joke.  Everyone watching these games sees what needs to be done and our NFL staff can't see it?  WTF.

Ahh look who it is.  So I'm assuming we win that game with Tebow yesterday, right?  He would have willed the game into a low-scoring affair with his passion and heart, right?  Or if it turned out to be a QB duel after all, he would've been able to make all the throws that Fitzpatrick made, right?  Either way, I'm sure we would've won.  I mean, Tebow looked stellar the two times he played New England last year.

#16 section122

section122

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,470 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

View PostTriple Threat, on 12 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

" In 4 of our losses this year, we scored 28, 28, 34 and 31 points."  Yet somehow their QB was able to score more.  Why can't ours?

Brady's defense gave up 31 points, but they still won.
Because they got to play against THE WORST DEFENSE in the NFL!

I'm with the OP.  Fitz has been playing good enough to win in the majority of our games.  The Defense has played good enough to win in 3 of them.  Surprise surprise our record is 3-6.

I have been a Fitz basher, and believe me I don't think he is a savior by any means, but he is not the glaring problem right now.  The lbs and the scheme are!

#17 bobobonators

bobobonators

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,494 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:30 AM

View PostTriple Threat, on 12 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

" In 4 of our losses this year, we scored 28, 28, 34 and 31 points."  Yet somehow their QB was able to score more.  Why can't ours?

Brady's defense gave up 31 points, but they still won.

I love posts like this.  Brady is probably 1 or 1A ALL !@#$ING TIME at the QB position.

#18 macaroni

macaroni

    Grand PooBah

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,730 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:35 AM

IMHO the "game plan" for the front office these past three years has been to build a team starting with a powerful defense and to "settle" for an offense capable of scoring in the 20 - 27 point range and relying on the defense to limit the oponents to less. With this outlook, Fitz should certianly able to lead the team to a "good" record. I don't think they felt the need to draft a big time QB, and give him big time weapons, until the defensive foundation was built (and I think they felt that job was done this offseason).

I have always thought that Fitz would be a great game manager ... and that was all we would need this season, however the defense is not performing as advertised.

Do we need/want a super star QB playing for the Bills ... of course we do ... but we don't have to panic and "reach" (whatever the heck that means) to get one ... but we do have to act with some urgency (dare I say panic) to figure out what the deal is with our defense.

#19 Bronc24

Bronc24

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,975 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:39 AM

View PostJohnnyGold, on 12 November 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

I know this is the internet, so I should never admit defeat, but a few things:

I was wrong about us beating the Patriots this week, and more specifically, wrong about them being on the decline. That is a team that can put points on the scoreboard. However, I maintain that they're not getting any younger, and we're getting closer to them. Maybe that says more about the Bills than about the Patriots, but next year, we finish ahead of them.

I'm not ready to say I'm wrong about us making the playoffs. The 5 seeded colts are 3 games ahead of us with 7 to go. We play Miami this week, they play the Patriots. Then, we play the Colts the following week. Following that, the Colts fly to Detroit, and we come home to play Jacksonville. 3 winnable games for us, 3 losable games for them. This season could look totally different in a few weeks, so I'll still be watching, and you should too.

Finally, and what I really wanted to get to, I was wrong about Fitzpatrick. All season I was beating the drum that Thigpen should take over, or better yet, Jackson. Point blank, fitzy has been getting it done lately. We have the 32nd ranked defense in the league: In 4 of our losses this year, we scored 28, 28, 34 and 31 points. The TWENTY SEVENTH ranked defense in the league allows 27.6 points a game. Just that little of a jump, from 32nd to 27th ranked defense could result in 4 more wins. Basically, Fitz is being handicapped by how bad our defense is. The top 10 defenses in the league all allow under 21 points a game, which would get us another "win." So having a top 10 defense, with the offense we have now, would be good for % more wins, or a 8-1 record.
*Disclaimer: I know there a lot of "what-ifs" in the scenario I just created, but it's for the sake of discussion.

The point to all of this: Keep Gailey-he's doing just fine. Keep Fitz-he can win if our D plays better. Fire Wanny, draft linebackers, get a SOLID #2 wideout, and... I cant believe I'm about to say this... but give Fitz one more year :(

Do you want my address now?  I'm spending that $50 on a steak.

#20 Triple Threat

Triple Threat

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,776 posts

Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:48 PM

View Postbobobonators, on 12 November 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I love posts like this.  Brady is probably 1 or 1A ALL !@#$ING TIME at the QB position.

I get that, but you can't keep using the argument that we score enough to win, when your QB throws a last possesion interception.  That's on him.