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We need another RB

CJ Spiller 2013 Fred Jackson

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#1 jboyst62

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

This is not a simple reaction to one game, and I might get people laughing, but it is a serious topic.

We need a RB to pick up 1 yard.  Sure, you can argue that CJ was pulled on 3rd down, he is averaging 7+ yards per carry, and is one of the most dynamic backs in the league.  And I would not disagree.  I am not saying he is too small to make the plays, I am not saying he can't convert.  What I am saying is that he is a liability on 3rd and short.  It can just as easily be a busted lose seven yards play as it can be break it for 20.  More importantly it is wear and tear on a guy that we need down the stretch.  The hardest part to deal with is Fred Jackson, and he is showing his age.  We need to have him on this team and tonights game shows it.  Letting Fred get pounded on those short yard plays hurts in the long run.

What I propose is much like the Bucs did with Warrick Dunn, who is much like CJ Spiller.  They used Alstott when they needed the yards in short.  They used Alstott to destroy all things in front of him.  Warrick Dunn was used a ton, and a tremendously unappreciated player.  If we could pick up a ball securing, ground churning, power back as our 3rd back we have to do so.  Let Choice go, I like him just fine, but we need a 3rd back for 3 to 4 plays a game.  Very important plays.

#2 Rob's House

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:14 AM

While I agree with you, I think Fred plays that role well. He's not an Alstot style battering ram, but he runs strong up the middle and is shifty between the tackles.

I do think a battering ram would be nice though.

#3 bills chin

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

you also need some variations on the OL blocking schemes

#4 Simon

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

View Postjboyst62, on 15 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

This is not a simple reaction to one game, and I might get people laughing, but it is a serious topic.

We need a RB to pick up 1 yard.  Sure, you can argue that CJ was pulled on 3rd down, he is averaging 7+ yards per carry, and is one of the most dynamic backs in the league.  And I would not disagree.  I am not saying he is too small to make the plays, I am not saying he can't convert.  What I am saying is that he is a liability on 3rd and short.  It can just as easily be a busted lose seven yards play as it can be break it for 20.  More importantly it is wear and tear on a guy that we need down the stretch.  The hardest part to deal with is Fred Jackson, and he is showing his age.  We need to have him on this team and tonights game shows it.  Letting Fred get pounded on those short yard plays hurts in the long run.

What I propose is much like the Bucs did with Warrick Dunn, who is much like CJ Spiller.  They used Alstott when they needed the yards in short.  They used Alstott to destroy all things in front of him.  Warrick Dunn was used a ton, and a tremendously unappreciated player.  If we could pick up a ball securing, ground churning, power back as our 3rd back we have to do so.  Let Choice go, I like him just fine, but we need a 3rd back for 3 to 4 plays a game.  Very important plays.
Everybody wants us to jam it up in there on 3rd/short, but the back is not the problem, imo.
Despite Chan's excellent design, teams do not fear the Bills air attack because our WR corpse is just awful, we only have 1 marginal TE and Fitz is a gutty top level backup. As a result opposing defenses are wildly attacking the LOS with little fear of what's going on behind them; watch that game tonight (or any week) and look how much pressure teams throw into the trench on every down, especially short yardage downs. This OLine is not built to overpower people, it's built with smart agile guys who understand angles and sustain blocks in space. They simply do not have the personnel to line up and knock people off the ball and it doesn't really matter which back they try to do it with.
Hell, I think Brad Smith is a very crafty short yardage ballcarrier but even when you go Wildcat and play for a number advantage (that you still don't really get) we still have to fight to get that yard.

#5 Big C

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:25 AM

Can Corey Mac or Dickerson do that?

#6 jboyst62

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:27 AM

View PostSimon, on 16 November 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

...Despite Chan's excellent design, teams do not fear the Bills air attack because our WR corpse is just awful, we only have 1 marginal TE and Fitz is a gutty top level backup....
pretty much... :w00t:

Also, I do agree with what you said, but the only reason I think this is an issue is because who would you rather have Choice or a battering ram?

Edited by jboyst62, 16 November 2012 - 12:28 AM.


#7 Dr. K

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

I certainly wished they'd had Freddie available in this game as a change of pace form CJ, and to give him a blow. He'll get worn down if he has to take the beating Miami laid on him for any length of time.

Plus, the Dolphins pass rush was pretty darn fierce, especially in the second half. Fitz was under heavy pressure many times, and would have been sacked even more if he had not escaped a few times. I wish they could break a long pass play in a couple of those situations to slow them down.

#8 NoSaint

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:37 AM

I think San Jose was on board with me on this- I was near certain we would make a run at Tolbert after he sat on the market a few weeks. He seemed perfect for a #3 here, and had the nix/SD ties.

#9 ....lybob

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

Peyton Hillis will be a free agent- just saying

#10 mrags

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

We have him on the roster now and don't use him. Dickerson and even C-Mac. Honestly, I'm not sure at all why we have them on the roster. Chan never uses them. He could surely get 2 more LBs, or WRs to play special teams and give us more options at positions if need. The fullback position has been dying for years in the league, but Chan has ignored it completely.

#11 jjmac

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:48 PM

View Post....lybob, on 16 November 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Peyton Hillis will be a free agent- just saying

Doesn't he fumble just a little too much?

#12 Sisyphean Bills

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

View PostSimon, on 16 November 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

Everybody wants us to jam it up in there on 3rd/short, but the back is not the problem, imo.
Despite Chan's excellent design, teams do not fear the Bills air attack because our WR corpse is just awful, we only have 1 marginal TE and Fitz is a gutty top level backup. As a result opposing defenses are wildly attacking the LOS with little fear of what's going on behind them; watch that game tonight (or any week) and look how much pressure teams throw into the trench on every down, especially short yardage downs. This OLine is not built to overpower people, it's built with smart agile guys who understand angles and sustain blocks in space. They simply do not have the personnel to line up and knock people off the ball and it doesn't really matter which back they try to do it with.
Hell, I think Brad Smith is a very crafty short yardage ballcarrier but even when you go Wildcat and play for a number advantage (that you still don't really get) we still have to fight to get that yard.

Yep.  Choice is a good, solid RB with a complete game -- not a deadbeat 3rd option in the grand scheme of things at all.  

How many teams are handing the ball to a Fridge Perry in the backfield in 2012 and expecting their 380 pounder to cave in an entire defensive front with nothing but momentum?

PS: Thank goodness no one is suggesting drafting another RB in the 1st round. B-)

#13 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

To the esteemed poster above, I disagree about Choice.

IMO, everything about the guy is mediocre. He's a jack of all trades and proficient at none.

He's not quick, not fast, not a good runner or receiver or blocker, doesn't have power and does not have one redeemable skill.

Or as we used to say about some players, "he's small but he's slow."

#14 Jy Re

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:05 PM

This may become my dead horse.

http://forums.twobil...20#entry2631181

#15 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

There are a few teams in this league who effectively change the identity of their offenses with their personnel groupings.

The Bills have the personnel to be a good short yardage team but my theory is that it's something that is not a point of emphasis with Gailey.

Without knowing the truth, I believe that Gailey allocates more practice time to, for instance the Wildcat, than he does short yardage situations.

With our O-line talent, CMac and Lee Smith this team should be good at converting short-yardage situations.

To me the team's lack of success in this area is on Gailey.

#16 mrags

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:09 PM

View PostJy Re, on 16 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

This may become my dead horse.

http://forums.twobil...20#entry2631181
Your absolutely right Jay. And the beauty of it is that we could get a big power running back LATE in the draft, cheaply in FA, or potentially use what we already have in C-Mac and Dickerson.

#17 kobe808lak

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

Meh... McIntyre blew a block on one occasion last night... This oline has shown they are not the best in short yardage for whatever reason...  Players need to get some push....

And I'm as anti-Gailey as they come.

#18 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

View PostJÂy RÛßeÒ, on 16 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

This may become my dead horse.

http://forums.twobil...20#entry2631181

I agree and disagree.

I don't think the Bills have to invest a high price to find a short-yardage specialist but I agree they need to find one or take someone on the roster and develop him into that role.

Besides the inability to stretch the field vertically (which might involve a different QB and receiver), this offenses biggest weakness is the inability to pound the ball.

With their current personnel, this should not be a weakness.

#19 Jy Re

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

View Postmrags, on 16 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Your absolutely right Jay. And the beauty of it is that we could get a big power running back LATE in the draft, cheaply in FA, or potentially use what we already have in C-Mac and Dickerson.
CMac has been here for almost 4 years.  You'd think they would know by now if he was capable of doing this.  I've seen Dickerson run the ball once - a miserably failed H-Back hand off that was basically an end-around.

#20 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

View Postkobe808lak, on 16 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Meh... McIntyre blew a block on one occasion last night... This oline has shown they are not the best in short yardage for whatever reason...  Players need to get some push....

And I'm as anti-Gailey as they come.

This is what the occasional padded practice and points of emphasis are for.

These situations only come up a few times in a game but the ability to convert these situations at a high percentage is a huge advantage for a team.

The team needs to work more on their short game and less on their tee shots.





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