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David Shaw


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#1 C.Biscuit97

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

Obviously, I'm hoping like hell for a playoff berth and still believe there's a chance.  But before the season, the playoffs were the bar.  IMO, anything less than a winning season (9-7 and a missed playoff is enough sign of improvement for Chan to be brought back) should bring a coaching change.

People want to talk about Ralph being cheap and that's such BS.  Ralph spends a lot of money.  What holds this franchise back is Ralph has old man thoughts (go to PPP to see what they look like).  He is afraid of trying something new.  I know Chip Kelly has been talked about but IMO, I think Shaw is the better candidate.  http://en.wikipedia....erican_football)

1)  He coached under Harbaugh, who is a top 3 coach in the league.  He gets the most out of his QBs.  I like guys who learn from the best.

2)  He's young.  The league seems to be shifting towards guys in their 30s and 40s instead of those retreads.

3)  He is diverse in his approach.  He will spread the field and then play 3 TEs.  My biggest worry with Kelly is his system translated to the pros (the QB has to run too much).  

4)  The NFL is a copy league and teams are copying college.  Shaw is fresh from that.  I'd even be in favor of him bringing his DC, especially after how they shut down Oregon.  IMO, the biggest failing of Wanny is he was 7 years away from the pro game.

Obviously, the number 1 goal is to make the playoffs and not have to worry about another coach.  But if we do, let's get ahead of their curve.  Make this a job too good (pick your own QB and have a decent vet and a lot of $$$) to turn down.  Thoughts?

#2 Maddog69

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:08 PM

He probably can't be any worse than the long list of re-treads and dimwits we've had since Marv left.   Sign me up.

#3 C.Biscuit97

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostMaddog69, on 19 November 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

He probably can't be any worse than the long list of re-treads and dimwits we've had since Marv left.   Sign me up.

That's my #1 thing.  No re-treads unless it's a guy like Rex Ryan with a proven OC (I think Ryan is a very good coach who has a terrible QB).

#4 Maddog69

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:17 PM

I don't know anything about Shaw.   My biggest concern would be the ability to build a coaching staff.   I want to assistant coaches, not 'teachers' which is a euphamism for 'should be coaching a HS team'.

I know that Gailey will be back next year, but my preference would be for him to be replaced.   The top candidate on my list would be Bruce Arians.    Second would probably be Perry Fewell.  After that, I'd be more than happy with someone like Shaw.


#5 jr1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:20 PM

A young guy like this is probably more apt to pay attention to footballoutsiders.com type of stats

#6 GG

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

There's a reason you get slapped around on PPP.  Old man thoughts are better than half baked thoughts.

The main reason nobody wants to work for Ralph Wilson is not that he doesn't spend money, it's that the organization that he's built makes it impossible to succeed because it's not always clear who is going to pull the rug from under you.  Is Nix the boss, or is it Brandon?  Is it Overdorff or is it Littman?  Do you know?  Doubt it.  At the end of the day it goes back to Ralph Wilson, and he's proven to be incompetent at building a winning football franchise.  But he's certainly maximized his income from the team and the suffering fan base.

Now tell me again about these grand young man thoughst that are so wonderful and better than old man thoughts.

#7 Maddog69

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

View PostGG, on 19 November 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

There's a reason you get slapped around on PPP.  Old man thoughts are better than half baked thoughts.

The main reason nobody wants to work for Ralph Wilson is not that he doesn't spend money, it's that the organization that he's built makes it impossible to succeed because it's not always clear who is going to pull the rug from under you.  Is Nix the boss, or is it Brandon?  Is it Overdorff or is it Littman?  Do you know?  Doubt it.  At the end of the day it goes back to Ralph Wilson, and he's proven to be incompetent at building a winning football franchise.  But he's certainly maximized his income from the team and the suffering fan base.

Now tell me again about these grand young man thoughst that are so wonderful and better than old man thoughts.

You're right.   It is totally impossible to be successful under Ralph Wilson.
Signed,
Bill Polian, John Butler and Marv Levy

#8 GG

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:12 PM

View PostMaddog69, on 19 November 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

You're right.   It is totally impossible to be successful under Ralph Wilson.
Signed,
Bill Polian, John Butler and Marv Levy

Check the history of Bill Polian and John Butler and how they departed the organization.  When you're done, check out the departures of the only three other successful football men in the sorry history of this franchise and how they departed - Wade Phillips, Lou Saban & Chuck Knox.  Then maybe you'll understand why there are three Kay Stephensons for every Chuck Knox that is willing to play for this owner.

#9 Maddog69

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

View PostGG, on 19 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:



Check the history of Bill Polian and John Butler and how they departed the organization.  When you're done, check out the departures of the only three other successful football men in the sorry history of this franchise and how they departed - Wade Phillips, Lou Saban & Chuck Knox.  Then maybe you'll understand why there are three Kay Stephensons for every Chuck Knox that is willing to play for this owner.
Look through the history of every organization and you'll see the same thing.   There are lots more Barry Switzers in Dallas than there are Jimmy Johnsons.   Lots more Rich Kotite's in Philly than Andy Reid's.   Lots more Joe Philbins in Miami than Don Shulas.   Shall I continue.   The Bills woes are not as easily identified as you've laid them out.    The easiest solution for any floundering franchise is to find a QB.   Belicheck was mediocre before Brady.    Shanahan has done nothing without Elway.   Dungy was nothing without Manning.   And the list goes on.   Find a QB and the Bills will be fine, with or without Ralphie Boy.

#10 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:18 PM

View PostGG, on 19 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Check the history of Bill Polian and John Butler and how they departed the organization.  When you're done, check out the departures of the only three other successful football men in the sorry history of this franchise and how they departed - Wade Phillips, Lou Saban & Chuck Knox.  Then maybe you'll understand why there are three Kay Stephensons for every Chuck Knox that is willing to play for this owner.

QFT

#11 Beerball

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:23 PM

View PostMaddog69, on 19 November 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

You're right.   It is totally impossible to be successful under Ralph Wilson.
Signed,
Bill Polian, John Butler and Marv Levy
You do realize that was the exception that proved the rule, right? Ralph stumbled upon Polian. It will take lightning to strike twice for that to happen again. With regards to Marv...all the power to him, probably no other coach would have gotten that team to 4 straight. The flip side of the coin is that a better coach would have won at least #1, perhaps more.

#12 GG

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostMaddog69, on 19 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Look through the history of every organization and you'll see the same thing.   There are lots more Barry Switzers in Dallas than there are Jimmy Johnsons.   Lots more Rich Kotite's in Philly than Andy Reid's.   Lots more Joe Philbins in Miami than Don Shulas.   Shall I continue.   The Bills woes are not as easily identified as you've laid them out. The easiest solution for any floundering franchise is to find a QB.   Belicheck was mediocre before Brady. Shanahan has done nothing without Elway.   Dungy was nothing without Manning.   And the list goes on.   Find a QB and the Bills will be fine, with or without Ralphie Boy.
There are definitily more losing coaches than winning coaches, because smart owners who command historically winning franchises usually don't fire winning coaches...

In their last time seeking a head coach, Bills were turned down by as many people as they have interviewed.  No rising prospect in his right mind will consider a spot in Buffalo until there's clarity about the long term visibility about the team's ownership and management.  And even if a young guy is interested, if I'm that guy's agent, I'm doing everything in my power to prevent my client from committing career suicide.

#13 Maddog69

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostBeerball, on 19 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

You do realize that was the exception that proved the rule, right? Ralph stumbled upon Polian. It will take lightning to strike twice for that to happen again. With regards to Marv...all the power to him, probably no other coach would have gotten that team to 4 straight. The flip side of the coin is that a better coach would have won at least #1, perhaps more.
1.) Did Ralph strumble onto Polian or did Polian stumble onto Jim Kelly?
2.) I see your point about Marv, but I still think getting to 4 consecutive Superbowls is a much bigger accomplishment than winning 1.   Many teams have won one Superbowl and then disappeared.   Nobody else has gone to 4 straight.  
3.) The Bills have had other successful coaches/GMs.  Obviously Polian and Levy are the most successful but there were others.  I think it is far too convenient to blame Ralph or Littman or whatever.  But I just feel it is simpler than that.    They have hired the wrong coaches and they have not made enough of a prioirity out of finding a franchise QB.

#14 Sisyphean Bills

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

View PostMaddog69, on 19 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Look through the history of every organization and you'll see the same thing.
Well, the last 40+ years of Steelers football has 3 head coaches and each one of them has a Super Bowl ring.  

And the Cowboys aren't a good example either.  From 1960 to 1997, they had 3 coaches all with Super Bowl rings.  In fact, they didn't make their current drought until they hired Chan Gailey.