70 replies to this topic

[BuffalothruMyVeins]

I personally haven't seen much of Rivers, but have heard that he has been underwhelming lately, and I don't mean just this season. If San Diego falls out of it and loses their coach, it would mean a possible change at QB too since (most *ahem*) new regimes bring in their new QB too. Again, I haven't seen much of the guy, so can anyone tell me if he's playing at a level that would make us better?

I don't want to just hear from the "OMG he sucks stay away from him" croud, because I'm sure he's at least Fitz's equal. I'm looking for someone who has seen enough of him to say would he be able to give us say 5 years of 3,500 yards per with 25-30 TD's without being a risk to lead league in picks like our boy Fitz. Can he run the quick strike spread offense with screens, that we currently have, and add an element we don't currently have, the ability to make throws consistently outside the numbers and downfield?
Would Rivers be worth bringing in if he were to be on the block for, say, a 2nd rounder? Surely something would have to be done with Fitz' and his starter's contract if they did that, because we couldn't pay 2 starting QB's wages and watch Levitre and Byrd walk out the door. There IS the Nix connection, but not sure if that's enough.

Me personally, from what I've seen, he could have the best physical tools any QB under Gailey has ever had since (didn't Gailey OC some for Broncos before he went to Pitt?) Elway maybe? However, I just caught the end of the Chargers/Broncos game, he got sacked on about his own 20, down by a score, with about 12 or 13 seconds left... and yeah sure game was likely over, but he just got up and walked off the field while the clock ticked away... he could have at least tried to get 1 more play off. So that kinda unimpressed me with him, Trent was booted after giving up throwing ball out of bounds or running out of bounds at the end of the first or 2nd game under Gailey, for admitting defeat, so maybe that wouldn't play for Gailey either.

[PromoTheRobot]

http://espn.go.com/n...12/seasontype/2

So far Rivers is having a nearly identical season to Fitz statistically. except that he currently leads the NFL in interceptions.  Also consider how often starting QBs change teams and have more success with their new team.  Hint: Not often.  So why do we want him?

PTR

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 19 November 2012 - 07:53 PM.

[NoSaint]

PromoTheRobot, on 19 November 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

http://espn.go.com/n...12/seasontype/2

So far Rivers is having a nearly equal season to Fitz statistically. except that he currently leads the NFL in interceptions.  So why do we want him?

PTR

Because that's a real short version of a much longer story?

Last year was a major chest injury, gates in and out of the lineup, the VJax drama the last few years, them losing there 2 best olinemen to career ending injuries unexpectedly, turner being a hated coach out there, letting sproles walk, etc....

Rivers needs to tighten up his mechanics, as they were poor to begin and I think got a bit sloppier the last few years. Footwork seems to be going the wrong direction, but that could've just been an issue in the bit I've seen.

If we don't draft a guy, he would be a comfortable upgrade.

I don't think they let him go.

Edited by NoSaint, 19 November 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[PromoTheRobot]

NoSaint, on 19 November 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Because that's a real short version of a much longer story?

Last year was a major chest injury, gates in and out of the lineup, the VJax drama the last few years, them losing there 2 best olinemen to career ending injuries unexpectedly, turner being a hated coach out there, letting sproles walk, etc....

Rivers needs to tighten up his mechanics, as they were poor to begin and I think got a bit sloppier the last few years. Footwork seems to be going the wrong direction, but that could've just been an issue in the bit I've seen.

If we don't draft a guy, he would be a comfortable upgrade.

I don't think they let him go.

Rivers was great from 2008-2010.  He's been in decline since.  So you are betting that he will suddenly revert to form as a Bill?

PTR

[Marauder24]

There is no way SD cuts that cord.  Moot point.

[T master]

We need to look to the future not to a bandage for 2 or 3 years , Rivers is a good QB but it would be about the same as when we brought Bledsoe in ..

Rivers is good but it won't be long or even now could be starting on the down side of his career , so lets do our home work & get a guy that is going to be here for 10 or so years not 2 or 3 ..

Plus it will be cheaper with the way the new CBA has the rookie pay scale, Rivers will be asking a ton to move ..

[NoSaint]

PromoTheRobot, on 19 November 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Rivers was great from 2008-2010.  He's been in decline since.  So you are betting that he will suddenly revert to form as a Bill?

PTR

I think you are under rating his talents. But I think we have to agree to disagree.

On an aside - It's also amazing the talent that's left that team.... not to make excuses here, just amazing when you look at it over say the last 5-6 year - guys they either let walk or hit the wall unexpectedly

Brees - gone
Merriman - should've been a cornerstone
VJax was a ton of drama with the contract til leaving
Sproles is so dynamic
Turners up and down but mostly up
Dielman and McNeil both cut short by injury

And I don't know the team well enough to comment on role players. And leaving out guys that simply aged out (Tomlinson). Just cornerstone talents that left.

T master, on 19 November 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

We need to look to the future not to a bandage for 2 or 3 years , Rivers is a good QB but it would be about the same as when we brought Bledsoe in ..

Rivers is good but it won't be long or even now could be starting on the down side of his career , so lets do our home work & get a guy that is going to be here for 10 or so years not 2 or 3 ..

Plus it will be cheaper with the way the new CBA has the rookie pay scale, Rivers will be asking a ton to move ..

I agree - not truly advocating for him, just discussing the player and team a bit

[Ed_Roch]

Huh??

Um....  Most new regimes bring in new QB because the old regime got fired for losing too often which usually was due to having a lousy QB.  Tell me when Tony Dungy took over the Colts, did they cut Peyton Manning, or when Dungy left and Caldwell took over, did he get rid of Manning?  What's the coach to QB ratio in Dallas, (not that Romo is all that great to begin with)  Norv Turner didn't rid of Phillip Rivers either.

Any team with a highly thought of QB doesn't get rid of him when the coach changes.  Would the next coach of the Eagles dump Vick, sure that may happen as he's questionable at best.

BuffalothruMyVeins, on 19 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

I personally haven't seen much of Rivers, but have heard that he has been underwhelming lately, and I don't mean just this season. If San Diego falls out of it and loses their coach, it would mean a possible change at QB too since (most *ahem*) new regimes bring in their new QB too. Again, I haven't seen much of the guy, so can anyone tell me if he's playing at a level that would make us better?

I think he still has enough years left that would be a good pickup if available, but he ain't going no where!

T master, on 19 November 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

We need to look to the future not to a bandage for 2 or 3 years , Rivers is a good QB but it would be about the same as when we brought Bledsoe in ..

Rivers is good but it won't be long or even now could be starting on the down side of his career , so lets do our home work & get a guy that is going to be here for 10 or so years not 2 or 3 ..

Plus it will be cheaper with the way the new CBA has the rookie pay scale, Rivers will be asking a ton to move ..

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The problem is that most Bills fans don't just want an upgrade at quarterback.

They want the next great quarterback and nothing less.

[Ed_Roch]

And when you look around the league and how many teams go through multiple QB's over a set number of years the odds are much higher that the Bill's end up with someone worse rather than better

San Jose Bills Fan, on 19 November 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

The problem is that most Bills fans don't just want an upgrade at quarterback.

They want the next great quarterback and nothing less.

[Rob's House]

Rivers isn't going anywhere. For whatever faults he may have he's still a very solid QB. They've had a lot of issues with their O-line this year, and Gates is their only real offensive weapon, and he always seems to be dealing with nagging injuries.

Basically, Rivers is better than whoever they could replace him with.

[EDinRTP]

I would take Rivers in a heartbeat.  Turning 31 and a top notch QB who could lead the young offense.
Drafting an unproven QB for 2-3 years down the road also makes sense, but to win in the near future he's a great option.
Plus, I love his "Jim Kelly" mentality.  He'd be a WNY kinda guy.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

EDinKC, on 19 November 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

I would take Rivers in a heartbeat.  Turning 31 and a top notch QB who could lead the young offense.
Drafting an unproven QB for 2-3 years down the road also makes sense, but to win in the near future he's a great option.
Plus, I love his "Jim Kelly" mentality.  He'd be a WNY kinda guy.

I agree but (regardless of the reality of whether they actually become available) most Bills fans seem to be against guys like Rivers and Romo.

They don't seem to want second-tier franchise QBs as far as I can tell.

[Homer]

Can you imagine the look on Woods face the first time Rivers yelled at him for missing a block....which he does with his own line...i mean really gets in their grill.

[Buftex]

I hate Rivers... he is likely an upgrade over anyone we have, but he just seems like a complete douche to me.  I know that isn't real X's & O's stuff, but I just don't like the guy.  If you watch him enough, you start to pick up on some pretty undesirable characteristics for a QB, IMO...he seems a little "pissy" at times....and, perhaps it is too many years spent in the stench of Norv Turner and the underachieving Chargers, but the guy just doesn't strike me as a winner.  If he couldn't get it done, in his physical prime, with all the offensive talent the Chargers had over his time in San Diego, there is little reason for me to believe he would fare a lot better in Buffalo.

Jaws did a breakdown on Rivers a few weeks ago, and was making the point that Rivers arm strength seems to be diminishing, and his already unorthodox style seems to be breaking down, and he is developing bad habits that his arm strength can no longer make up for.  When Jaws was talking about him, he could have been talking about Bernie Kosar.  Like Rivers, he had unusual mechanics, but was so good for the first 7 or so years of his career that he was beyond reproach....but when it started to go downhill of him, it went down fast...

Now, maybe Rivers just needs a change of coach, or a change of scenery...but I don't think I would want to waste another 3 seasons finding out that he is done...

[CardinalScotts]

upgrade  ? Rivers not really

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

San Jose Bills Fan, on 19 November 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

I agree but (regardless of the reality of whether they actually become available) most Bills fans seem to be against guys like Rivers and Romo.

They don't seem to want second-tier franchise QBs as far as I can tell.

A second-tier franchise QB would work just fine if we had a top-tier defense and playoff caliber coaching.  We have neither.  We need a top-tier QB to overcome the systemic deficiencies in the team.

Rivers and Romo sound like Bledsoe to me.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS, on 19 November 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

A second-tier franchise QB would work just fine if we had a top-tier defense and playoff caliber coaching.  We have neither.  We need a top-tier QB to overcome the systemic deficiencies in the team.

Rivers and Romo sound like Bledsoe to me.

Good point.

[MDH]

JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS, on 19 November 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

A second-tier franchise QB would work just fine if we had a top-tier defense and playoff caliber coaching.  We have neither.  We need a top-tier QB to overcome the systemic deficiencies in the team.

Rivers and Romo sound like Bledsoe to me.

But its easier to replace half of the D than it is to find an elite QB.  Best bet is to try and draft a QB and fix the D in the process.  They're not mutually exclusive.

As for Rivers, I doubt they'd let him go but he'd be an improvement over Fitz.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

Anyone know where Fitz' contract stands?   What kind of financial hit would management have to take to bring in a new QB?