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halfway through the season, knowing what we know at this point


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#1 The Poojer

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:39 AM

Would the Bills had made any REASONABLE alternative draft picks 1-3?  Don't elevate anyone that is having an outstanding year but wasn't a blip in the 1st 3 rounds amongst all the 'expert prognostcators'
Personally I think they did a great job that will pay benefits for several years.

#2 Beerball

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:42 AM

Picks 1 & 2 look solid. #3 is the one where you'll get the most debate (IMO).

#3 The Poojer

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:46 AM

I think graham will emerge...who went after him that would have suited our needs coming into the season.

View PostBeerball, on 20 November 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Picks 1 & 2 look solid. #3 is the one where you'll get the most debate (IMO).


#4 Beerball

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:49 AM

View PostThe Poojer, on 20 November 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

I think graham will emerge...who went after him that would have suited our needs coming into the season.
I'm lazy so I won't go look it up but I'll bet we'll find a LB who could have helped.

#5 JPS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

Kirk Cousins in the 3rd.

#6 Sisyphean Bills

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:01 AM

A couple problems with the Graham pick.  

A whole bunch of clones of his -- small, fast WRs -- went drafted in the 4th round.  In order to be evaluated as the right pick in a couple of years, he'll at minimum have to emerge as a better player than all these other slot guys.

Trading up for him in the early 3rd meant passing on two [edit: 3] QB prospects, one that was a day 1 starter and another that is now seeing playing time.  Either one of these guys would have been an upgrade over Thigpen or Jackson -- heck, Jackson wouldn't even have been available for the Bills to trade a pick for if the Bills had taken Wilson.  Slightly longer term, with both Thigpen and Jackson becoming free agents this year, the Bills will be forced to address their QB situation, and fears about whether that guy never becomes great will have to be set aside or another reclamation salvage job undergone.

#7 OCinBuffalo

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

View PostThe Poojer, on 20 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

Would the Bills had made any REASONABLE alternative draft picks 1-3?  Don't elevate anyone that is having an outstanding year but wasn't a blip in the 1st 3 rounds amongst all the 'expert prognostcators'
Personally I think they did a great job that will pay benefits for several years.
Not really.

I agree. We are no longer a team that has to rely on 5th and 6th round draft picks starting and doing well, never mind never missing on 1-3.

We can talk about this guy and that one...but the trend is obvious. At this point the players on the field can compete with anyone. We are 2 dumb plays away from being 6-4, or at least 5-5. That was not the case prior to Buddy/Whaley taking over.

The LBs are young, don't know if they stink. Nobody can honestly know that at this point. But, LB is the only thing I would suggest we might have done with the #3. And, no, I don't recall a better LB than Graham is a WR. For all we know, Bradham and Sheppard might be who we needed. I see flashes from both. They need to improve, dramatically, but I think that's more likely than less.

#8 Why So Serious?

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

In 2011 I can write a dissertation on the draft moves I would have made (and I have on this site multiple times)

Outside of Keenan Robinson or Sean Spence over TJ Graham. The draft broke really nice.

I personally wouldn't have taken Gilmore. I would have taken Michael Floyd for good or bad, but I can't be mad at that pick.

And Cordy Glenn is an absolute steal in the second. If you would have a redraft today he would be a top 10 pick.

#9 The Poojer

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:18 AM

View PostSisyphean Bills, on 20 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

A couple problems with the Graham pick.  
we traded up 2 spots...only qbs we missed out on were russel wilson and nick foles...i'll give you wilson as an option...but i don't know based on our needs if he was our guy...but at least Russel Wilson is worth the consideration

View PostSisyphean Bills, on 20 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

A whole bunch of clones of his -- small, fast WRs -- went drafted in the 4th round.  In order to be evaluated as the right pick in a couple of years, he'll at minimum have to emerge as a better player than all these other slot guys.

Trading up for him in the early 3rd meant passing on two [edit: 3] QB prospects, one that was a day 1 starter and another that is now seeing playing time.  Either one of these guys would have been an upgrade over Thigpen or Jackson -- heck, Jackson wouldn't even have been available for the Bills to trade a pick for if the Bills had taken Wilson.  Slightly longer term, with both Thigpen and Jackson becoming free agents this year, the Bills will be forced to address their QB situation, and fears about whether that guy never becomes great will have to be set aside or another reclamation salvage job undergone.


#10 Sisyphean Bills

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:25 AM

View PostThe Poojer, on 20 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

we traded up 2 spots...only qbs we missed out on were russel wilson and nick foles...i'll give you wilson as an option...but i don't know based on our needs if he was our guy...but at least Russel Wilson is worth the consideration
There is no doubt that Wilson has done more to this point in his career.  None.  Foles and Cousins were also passed over and I think either one of them would be an upgrade over Thigpen now and, again, there is no question they'd be a longer term addition to this team than the backups they have.

#11 JohnC

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:11 AM

View PostSisyphean Bills, on 20 November 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

There is no doubt that Wilson has done more to this point in his career.  None.  Foles and Cousins were also passed over and I think either one of them would be an upgrade over Thigpen now and, again, there is no question they'd be a longer term addition to this team than the backups they have.

Nix was not looking to draft a backup qb in the third and fourth round. I suspect that he was not enamored enough with any of the third or fourth round prospects as fitting his need for a franchise qb. In his view why invest in a young backup type qb when you can easily get a mediocre vet who can satisfy your needs as a reserve? Is Russell Wilson better than or at least going to be better than Fitz? Possibly. But I suspect that when Nix does draft a qb (this year) he is going to make that pick with a  first round or maybe a second round pick and try to get the best prospect available.

I have stated on a number of posts that I believe that Nix missed a golden opportunity when he didn't draft Dalton a couple of drafts ago. If he would have taken him he would now be our starting qb. The focus would then be on filling other easier needs to fill. Smart organizations seize opportunities; mediocre organizations miss opportunities.

#12 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:15 AM

Linebackers we passed on?

I really wanted the Bills to select Miles Burris.

However the Bills must have liked Nigel Bradham better because they took him 24 picks ahead of Burris.

I'm fine with that. I thought this last draft was the Bills best under this regime.

But I would have liked if they'd taken one of the second tier QBs as well.

#13 OCinBuffalo

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:17 AM

View PostSisyphean Bills, on 20 November 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

There is no doubt that Wilson has done more to this point in his career.  None.  Foles and Cousins were also passed over and I think either one of them would be an upgrade over Thigpen now and, again, there is no question they'd be a longer term addition to this team than the backups they have.
This is true. However, QB is different. If we had drafted any of those 3...you know what this board would be like right now. :wallbash: And, we'd have no guarantees that any of the 3 are any better than Fitz. Hence, we'd have taken on trouble, with no significant upside? We go through all this hell...for a backup?

I guess I want a QB we KNOW can play in this league, and is a backup in name only. I don't want another Edwards, a 3rd round pick with this issue, and "can he overcome blah, blah, can he make the transition?" I don't want question marks. If we are drafting a QB, then let's be serious about it. QB is the ONLY position, due to the league today, especially the rule changes, where trading up makes sense.

I still say the RG3 trade was ludicrous. We'll see...especially when the Redskins are drafting at #10+ again this time, and there goes another top 10 pick...never mind next year. But, I would have nothing against packing this year's 1 and 2 to get up to get a guy we KNOW can play.

And, as far as "KNOW" goes, I trust Buddy/Whaley to be able to make that call.

#14 Kipers Hair

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:25 AM

Vontez Burfict....even in the 3rd...would have infused some juice into a lackluster corps....Hell, he could have walked on here and we passed....

#15 JohnC

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

View PostOCinBuffalo, on 20 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I still say the RG3 trade was ludicrous. We'll see...especially when the Redskins are drafting at #10+ again this time, and there goes another top 10 pick...never mind next year. But, I would have nothing against packing this year's 1 and 2 to get up to get a guy we KNOW can play.

I live in a Md. suburb of DC. So I get to watch Grifin III a lot. Whatever the Skins gave up for him is well worth it. He is a going to be a premier qb in this league for a very long time. In the long run it doesn't matter what the Skins' record is for this season or the short term. He is the foundaton from which that franchise will build around..He is a cornerstone player and a special player that few teams have an opportunity to acquire in a generation or so. Mike Shanahan took a risk. If you saw him play you would surely say it was well worth it.

Edited by JohnC, 20 November 2012 - 09:27 AM.


#16 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

View PostKipers Hair, on 20 November 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Vontez Burfict....even in the 3rd...would have infused some juice into a lackluster corps....Hell, he could have walked on here and we passed....

Didn't Burfict go undrafted?

Why then spend a 3rd on him?

The Bills could have taken a 7th round flyer on him.

#17 Kipers Hair

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:31 AM

View PostSan Jose Bills Fan, on 20 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Didn't Burfict go undrafted?

Why then spend a 3rd on him?

The Bills could have taken a 7th round flyer on him.
He is a starter....I said, we could have gotten him as a walk on and he is an upgrade over what we have....spending a third rounder would have been deemed appropriate for a starter...

#18 JohnC

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

View PostSan Jose Bills Fan, on 20 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Didn't Burfict go undrafted?

Why then spend a 3rd on him?

The Bills could have taken a 7th round flyer on him.

The Bills, like many other organizations, have a policy of trying to stay away from players who have issues. I'm not suggesting that Burfict is a bad person but he did have attitude issues that made him unappealing. The NFL is a big boy league. Not everyone is a boy scout. His talent level was not good enough to compensate for the red flag issues that most organizations didn't want to deal with.

#19 The Poojer

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:12 AM

that's why i qualified my question as being reasonable at the time...taking an ultimately undrafted player in the 3rd round would not have been a reasonable pick...at the time...granted we have the luxury of some history now, so it's difficult to separate the concept...but i am looking at realistically within 10-15-20 picks of where the Bills picked in the 3rd...

View PostKipers Hair, on 20 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

He is a starter....I said, we could have gotten him as a walk on and he is an upgrade over what we have....spending a third rounder would have been deemed appropriate for a starter...


#20 Why So Serious?

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

And you can tell what a sorry bunch these Bills fans are. The Buffalo Bills got a starting Left Tackle in the second round. Probably one of the biggest steals of the draft and only person has said. "Wow we got a real steal with Glenn."
Seriously the Bills committed grand larceny with that pick. Even with the injury he looks better than a half a dozen Top 10 Left Tackle picks the last ten years.
People should be excited that the Bills actually had something go very well for them on draft day.

Not to mention, yes Gilmore gets burned on double moves but he will likely learn to counteract that over time. They have basically placed Gilmore on an island all season and he has been above average. Give him some time to season and he may actually be very special, just watch the aggressiveness on those double moves.