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Why I like the Buddy System


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#1 BisonMan

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:44 AM

Buddy Nix has been getting a lot of heat here at TBD lately and I’d like to rise to his defense a bit. The first criticism we tend to hear about Buddy is that he has neglected to draft a franchise QB during his tenure. I’ve addressed the fact that there have been limited options for this in a previous post:

http://forums.twobil...e-last-7-years/

Even if you think there was a marginal QB worth taking high in the draft (i.e. first two or three rounds), I think Buddy has been smart to avoid that. My cursory view of early career QBs tends to show (but not in every case) that rookie and 2nd year QBs don’t tend to fair very well without a strong supporting infrastructure. There are always exceptions but they really are rare (see: Andrew Luck). Some seemed to bring a unique problem to defenses (see: Cam Newton) but got exposed in their second year.

More often, successful young QBs have a good infrastructure around them. This includes players like Ben Rothlesberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, and Mark Sanchez (yes, he really was successful early). Some “promising” QBs failed early and never recovered because their supporting cast was horrible (Trent Edwards or Alex Smith might fall into this category). It appears Buddy is building the machinery around the QB position before risking a franchise QB pick. Looking at each facet of the team, I think we could agree that Nix has mostly improved the team:

Quality by position since Buddy Nix became GM
RB: the same or better (I’d rather have Spiller than Lynch)
TE: better
OL: better. Buddy looks to have solidified 2 positions on the O-Line (LT and RG).
WR: the same or better (I think David Nelson makes it better than pre-Buddy)
DL: better (Darius and Mario Williams are definitely better than what we had)
LB: the same (Barnett is an improvement but Sheppard is a downgrade from Puz)
CB: the same or better (a bit of a wash between injury-prone McGee and rookie Gilmore)
S: the same

By my reckoning, they may have improved in 6 of the 8 categories. That’s also testament to how bad this team was when he took over as GM.

I now think the Bills are poised to take a QB in an early round and have the supporting cast to make him successful. I do think LB and CB could use improvement first but QB now should not be far behind.

My 2 cents.

#2 Dorkington

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:01 AM

On one hand, I want to agree, and I like our team on paper, and see us as an average defense away from being a legit playoff team.

On the other hand, our record has been atrocious, worse than when Nix/Chan took over. So clearly whatever we are doing isn't working. I like his picks/moves on paper, but they aren't translating on the field. If we don't finish at least .500 this year, I'm not sure if any of them should keep their jobs unless there is truly no one better available.

#3 Hazed and Amuzed

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

Fully agree with this notion. I think bringing in a rookie QB with a strong supporting cast is vital for them to mature. Rookie QBs get ruined when too much is put on their shoulders too early except in the rare case of guys like Peyton.

#4 GG

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:08 AM

So if the team was so horrible prior to him taking over as GM, yet under his tenure the Bills record is worse and the prime roster contributors are the guys who came in before he was named GM, what does that say about your theory?

#5 MDH

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:14 AM

While I get what you're trying to say (and agree with you that on paper the Bills appear better) the bottom line is your (and my) evaluations are all subjective.  They can be argued and debated about who is better where  (and I'd argue that the Bills aren't better at CB or LB right now - let's see if Gilmore pans out.)  

As Buddy himself says, "show me the baby."  The non-subjective way to grade a GM - wins.  Before Buddy got the job the Bills won 6, 7, 7, 7 in the previous 4 seasons.  He hasn't improved on that one bit.  Maybe he will this year but right now the Bills are on pace to win between 6-7 games.

I'll give him the rest of this season before passing judgement though it is curious to me how Bills fans continously give regimes 3 years to turn things around when many other teams in the league don't need that time to make a playoff run.  The Bills are the only team in NFL history to be on a 12 year "3 year rebuild."

View PostDorkington, on 20 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

On one hand, I want to agree, and I like our team on paper, and see us as an average defense away from being a legit playoff team.

On the other hand, our record has been atrocious, worse than when Nix/Chan took over. So clearly whatever we are doing isn't working. I like his picks/moves on paper, but they aren't translating on the field. If we don't finish at least .500 this year, I'm not sure if any of them should keep their jobs unless there is truly no one better available.

If the Bills show genuine improvement the rest of the way (particularly on D) and finish with at least 7 wins I'd be for given them another year.  At least we'd get off the 3 year cycle of rebuilding the team.

Edited by MDH, 20 November 2012 - 10:14 AM.


#6 John Cocktosten

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

I know this is a QB thread but the negatives far out way the positives with Buddy.  Stevie, Byrd, Levitre, Wood, FJax and  KW were all here before he got here.  Besides Spiller, Dareus (will be fine) and Gilmore, where are the impact players that he brought in?

-He hired Chan Gailey.  Chan is not a good coach and there is simply no arguing that.  

-He gave Fitz a 60 mil extension.  Let that resonate.  

-He telegraphs every move with his big mouth.

-He changed defensive philosophies in his second year instead of properly assessing what he had and working with it.   Now we're back at square one and HE STILL HASN'T DRAFTED A GOOD LB!

-He has not drafted a QB to develop in 3 years!  It's only the most important position in all of sports.

-His drafts have been terrible.  2010 is a train wreck.  2011 is just as bad.  Other than Spiller, there has been no impact whatsoever.

I'm sorry but role players like Nelson, Chandler (who is blocking impaired), Pears and Urbick don't validate Nix as a good GM.  He's been able to spend and draft "his guys" and where are we?  In last place in our division, with the worst defense in the league and STILL THE PATS B*TCH.  His overall record says it all.

Edited by John Cocktosten, 20 November 2012 - 10:48 AM.


#7 cwchze

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

Buddy and Chan aren't going anywhere...Yall better face it.We are in the midst of a complete rehab and turnaround
of the whole football program.It is going to be two more years until we see what they are building:still in labor pain but
getting closer:

1.do you remember the offense under jauron(moron).we sucked.Now we are putting together weapons that can score at
any time.We all dont always agree with some playcalling but damn Chan is willing to go for it.C.J,, Freddie, Stevie,Chandler
Jones, Nelson and TJ (when he figures it out) are all huge weapons..
we lost two games in final drive .Tenn because stevie didn't break off the route on blitz on 4th down.TJ because he ran wrong
route.These are growing pains.Fitz will get on same page with receivers and watch out.Im just saying

2. Defense finally showed what we can do against Miami.Physically dominate and push around opposing team.Mario and Darius both
had issues that are behind them.Merriman is a catalyst for  being a leader.We need a 2 dominate linebackers to finish defense.That will
be addressed in off season.Sheppard and Barnett are serviceable but not dominate.A williams will be moved to nickel or safety with
mclovin and gilmore playing the way they are.Byrd is a ballhoggin beast and I expect gilmore to be even more physical and a turnover
creating machine next year.

3.This team is starting to remind me of the 87-89 teams that needed to find and grow with one another and learn how to win.Damn we have
playmakers now.Im telling ya be patient. good times are getting closer.Go back and look at that crap roste buddy and chan had when they
came here.i dont care about first three year record,its the 4th year when we will see results.Watch out for us the rest of the year, we are
putting it together

Learn How To Win....the rest will fall in place..

Go Bills

#8 Best Player Available

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:03 PM

View PostGG, on 20 November 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

So if the team was so horrible prior to him taking over as GM, yet under his tenure the Bills record is worse and the prime roster contributors are the guys who came in before he was named GM, what does that say about your theory?
It's all about the winning. This regime can't even approach the DJ years 3 years in. 'Nuff said.
The team will never contend for the big prize with these clowns.

#9 Mr. WEO

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

View PostBisonMan, on 20 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:





By my reckoning, they may have improved in 6 of the 8 categories. That’s also testament to how bad this team was when he took over as GM.



You left out category 9: "coaches":  Buddy's greatest failure--top to bottom.

View Postcwchze, on 20 November 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:




.Go back and look at that crap roste buddy and chan had when they came here.i dont care about first three year record,its the 4th year when we will see results
Go Bills

Yeah that "crap roster" included Fitz, Stevie, Freddy, K Williams, Wood, Levitre, Bell, Kelsay, McGee, Byrd, Lindell, Moorman, George Wilson, Evans.....all guys who would start for Gailey and most who still are starting.  Yet even with the OP's "upgrades", the Bills record under Nix/Gailey has yet to match that of Jauron 2 1/2 years later.

And now we have to be patient and wait another 2 years--after this season?  Why?

#10 Coach Tuesday

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

I would like to see them actually beat a team with a winning record for a change, before pardoning Nix for anything.  I don't expect them to win the Superbowl, or even to make the playoffs given the current state of the roster.  But how about beating a team with a winning record?  Is that too much to ask?  How about this Sunday, wouldn't that be a good start?  This is the type of game that should be a watermark for Nix.  If he has really improved the team, it ought to be able to go in there and win.  I have my doubts, but would love to be proven wrong.

#11 cwchze

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:37 PM

View PostMr. WEO, on 20 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

You left out category 9: "coaches":  Buddy's greatest failure--top to bottom.



Yeah that "crap roster" included Fitz, Stevie, Freddy, K Williams, Wood, Levitre, Bell, Kelsay, McGee, Byrd, Lindell, Moorman, George Wilson, Evans.....all guys who would start for Gailey and most who still are starting.  Yet even with the OP's "upgrades", the Bills record under Nix/Gailey has yet to match that of Jauron 2 1/2 years later.

And now we have to be patient and wait another 2 years--after this season?  Why?
Let see:
fitz, freddi backups
stevie practice squad
wood levitre byrd second year just coming into their own
lindell morman  evans mgee  studs... at the time

our offense was horrible and our defense hmm lets just say pushovers....

now we have an offense that can score at will when they figure it out and a d that is growing together.

This is why I dont post much on here too much doom and gloom.....we suck b.s...get real do you want to go back
to the moron years..are you at all excitied about what is going on here. u guys need to figure it out.We are building
a team to reckon with. I dont ever want to see the offense of moron ever again. plus that tampa two **** we ran was a
joke.everyone walked all over us..

At least now I can say we are putting a team together that can have a shot in any game....Check back in a year...

#12 BEAST MODE BABY!

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

Anyone who thinks this team is worse under Buddy has quickly forgotten how bad Jauron and Modrak were. I don't care if our record doesn't show it, this team is far more competitive than it was, the players are better, and the coaching is better. We almost beat the Patriots in New England the other week for crying out loud. Buddy has been filling holes and retaining players. I have been more than frustrated with the DC like everyone else, but the right moves are being made and the team is headed in the right direction.

I bet most of the people bellyaching in this thread were willing to declare Spiller a bust after one year...now he's one of the most electrifying players in the NFL for crying out loud. Oi.

#13 Mr. WEO

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:12 PM

View Postcwchze, on 20 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Let see:
fitz, freddi backups
stevie practice squad
wood levitre byrd second year just coming into their own
lindell morman  evans mgee  studs... at the time

our offense was horrible and our defense hmm lets just say pushovers....

now we have an offense that can score at will when they figure it out and a d that is growing together.

This is why I dont post much on here too much doom and gloom.....we suck b.s...get real do you want to go back
to the moron years..are you at all excitied about what is going on here. u guys need to figure it out.We are building
a team to reckon with. I dont ever want to see the offense of moron ever again. plus that tampa two **** we ran was a
joke.everyone walked all over us..

At least now I can say we are putting a team together that can have a shot in any game....Check back in a year...

They were all on the roster and starting for Gailey in his first season.

How can you be taken seriously when you say that the offense "can score at will" (they are scoring 2 more ppg than Jauron's 2008 squad)?  Or that the defense used to be "pushovers" (they are among the 3 worst in the league--they were never this bad under Jauron) when teams are walking/running/passing all over us this year.

#14 Best Player Available

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:33 PM

View PostBEAST MODE BABY!, on 20 November 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Anyone who thinks this team is worse under Buddy has quickly forgotten how bad Jauron and Modrak were. I don't care if our record doesn't show it, this team is far more competitive than it was, the players are better, and the coaching is better. We almost beat the Patriots in New England the other week for crying out loud. Buddy has been filling holes and retaining players. I have been more than frustrated with the DC like everyone else, but the right moves are being made and the team is headed in the right direction.

I bet most of the people bellyaching in this thread were willing to declare Spiller a bust after one year...now he's one of the most electrifying players in the NFL for crying out loud. Oi.
How can you honestly say the team is better. Based on we "almost beat the pats***" The bar has become so low here it's comical at times.

#15 BisonMan

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

I think comparing records from year to year can be misleading because the schedule changes so much pertaining to the quality of opponents. The question I think we must ask:

"Are the Bills in a better position today and moving forward than they were in 2009?"

Fundamentally, I think they are. For those that think Dick Jauron is a better coach than Chan Gailey, please pass me that doobie after your next drag. For those that think JP Losman (out of the league) and/or Trent Edwards (mostly inactive 3rd stringer) are better QBs than Fitz, I'm taking your doobie privileges away.

The 2012 Bills have finished the toughest stretch of the season. They only play two teams with winning records going forward. They played 5 in the first 10 games. Let's see how this team responds. I remain hopeful and confident they are on the right path for the first time in more than 10 years.

Patience grasshopper.

#16 Best Player Available

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostBisonMan, on 20 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

I think comparing records from year to year can be misleading because the schedule changes so much pertaining to the quality of opponents. The question I think we must ask:

"Are the Bills in a better position today and moving forward than they were in 2009?"

Fundamentally, I think they are. For those that think Dick Jauron is a better coach than Chan Gailey, please pass me that doobie after your next drag. For those that think JP Losman (out of the league) and/or Trent Edwards (mostly inactive 3rd stringer) are better QBs than Fitz, I'm taking your doobie privileges away.

The 2012 Bills have finished the toughest stretch of the season. They only play two teams with winning records going forward. They played 5 in the first 10 games. Let's see how this team responds. I remain hopeful and confident they are on the right path for the first time in more than 10 years.

Patience grasshopper.
I was kind of with you until the end. Since the remaining schedule has the Bills playing other sub .500 ball scrub teams. You remain hopeful and confident that what we can beat only similar crap teams? Because really that is all the Bills beat. Other scrub teams that are going nowhere. Good times.

#17 cwchze

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

View PostMr. WEO, on 20 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

They were all on the roster and starting for Gailey in his first season.

How can you be taken seriously when you say that the offense "can score at will" (they are scoring 2 more ppg than Jauron's 2008 squad)?  Or that the defense used to be "pushovers" (they are among the 3 worst in the league--they were never this bad under Jauron) when teams are walking/running/passing all over us this year.
Delousional..It takes time to mold and build a team. Most of these players were just in their first year of starting.This team can and will start scoring at will, they are in
the process of learining to finish drives.You watch we can score on anybody once the recievers and the backs are in sync.You watch

yeah I will tell ya or defense was a fkn joke when buddy and chan took over.You can cry all ya want about this year but they will
come together.You say thursday what a punishing defense can do. took miami out of the game, and came thru in the end.that is how
you build character.This 4-3 d will work with the players we have, just need stud lb's lke SF(like cornelieus bennet and daryl tally, shane conlon)
Like I said check back in a year....

#18 Heisenberg

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 20 November 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

I know this is a QB thread but the negatives far out way the positives with Buddy.  Stevie, Byrd, Levitre, Wood, FJax and  KW were all here before he got here.  Besides Spiller, Dareus (will be fine) and Gilmore, where are the impact players that he brought in?

-He hired Chan Gailey.  Chan is not a good coach and there is simply no arguing that.  

-He gave Fitz a 60 mil extension.  Let that resonate.  

-He telegraphs every move with his big mouth.

-He changed defensive philosophies in his second year instead of properly assessing what he had and working with it.   Now we're back at square one and HE STILL HASN'T DRAFTED A GOOD LB!

-He has not drafted a QB to develop in 3 years!  It's only the most important position in all of sports.

-His drafts have been terrible.  2010 is a train wreck.  2011 is just as bad.  Other than Spiller, there has been no impact whatsoever.

I'm sorry but role players like Nelson, Chandler (who is blocking impaired), Pears and Urbick don't validate Nix as a good GM.  He's been able to spend and draft "his guys" and where are we?  In last place in our division, with the worst defense in the league and STILL THE PATS B*TCH.  His overall record says it all.

/thread

#19 FeartheLosing

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 20 November 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

I know this is a QB thread but the negatives far out way the positives with Buddy.  Stevie, Byrd, Levitre, Wood, FJax and  KW were all here before he got here.  Besides Spiller, Dareus (will be fine) and Gilmore, where are the impact players that he brought in?

-He hired Chan Gailey.  Chan is not a good coach and there is simply no arguing that.  

-He gave Fitz a 60 mil extension.  Let that resonate.  

-He telegraphs every move with his big mouth.

-He changed defensive philosophies in his second year instead of properly assessing what he had and working with it.   Now we're back at square one and HE STILL HASN'T DRAFTED A GOOD LB!

-He has not drafted a QB to develop in 3 years!  It's only the most important position in all of sports.

-His drafts have been terrible.  2010 is a train wreck.  2011 is just as bad.  Other than Spiller, there has been no impact whatsoever.

I'm sorry but role players like Nelson, Chandler (who is blocking impaired), Pears and Urbick don't validate Nix as a good GM.  He's been able to spend and draft "his guys" and where are we?  In last place in our division, with the worst defense in the league and STILL THE PATS B*TCH.  His overall record says it all.
I honestly don't get how some fans can be so naive and think this regime has done so much good.

3 years to find a LT, 3 years and 112 million to find a pass rush, 3 years to find a #1 WR, and still nothing, 3 years to find a solid LB core, and still nothing. STILL NO FRANCHISE QB!!

The biggest impact to show what losers Nix / Gailey is with the defense. First, starting out trying to implement a 3-4 without the proper players to make it work. That fantasy lasted 2 full years under George Edwards and after the first year the defense set a franchise record for worst defense against the run in the 50+ history of the franchise. So they retained Edwards for another year.

Now you would have thought switching to a 4-3, paying 112 million for 2 new pass rushers, finally having a DT healthy Kyle Williams, and placing a noted DC who has run some very successful 4-3 defense in the past at the helm of the defense would have upgraded that part of the team.

We all thought wrong...instead of a top 15 defense it was even worse then when George Edwards ran the defense. If that statement can even be believed currently 27th, 31st against the run.

Consider that most of the players Nix drafted have been to upgrade the defense, and it is worse then Jauron and his infamously bad Tampa 2. While George Edwards set franchise records for being bad. Wannstedt has set NFL records for being bad.


So the HC can get a backup QB to constantly throw the ball up and put up some good mediocre numbers in losing efforts....WHO CARES! Gailey's record of 13-28 in his 3 years so far says it all. Get a freaking grip on reality willyas people

#20 The Voice of Truth

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostBisonMan, on 20 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Buddy Nix has been getting a lot of heat here at TBD lately and I’d like to rise to his defense a bit. The first criticism we tend to hear about Buddy is that he has neglected to draft a franchise QB during his tenure. I’ve addressed the fact that there have been limited options for this in a previous post:

http://forums.twobil...e-last-7-years/

Even if you think there was a marginal QB worth taking high in the draft (i.e. first two or three rounds), I think Buddy has been smart to avoid that. My cursory view of early career QBs tends to show (but not in every case) that rookie and 2nd year QBs don’t tend to fair very well without a strong supporting infrastructure. There are always exceptions but they really are rare (see: Andrew Luck). Some seemed to bring a unique problem to defenses (see: Cam Newton) but got exposed in their second year.

More often, successful young QBs have a good infrastructure around them. This includes players like Ben Rothlesberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, and Mark Sanchez (yes, he really was successful early). Some “promising” QBs failed early and never recovered because their supporting cast was horrible (Trent Edwards or Alex Smith might fall into this category). It appears Buddy is building the machinery around the QB position before risking a franchise QB pick. Looking at each facet of the team, I think we could agree that Nix has mostly improved the team:

Quality by position since Buddy Nix became GM
RB: the same or better (I’d rather have Spiller than Lynch)
TE: better
OL: better. Buddy looks to have solidified 2 positions on the O-Line (LT and RG).
WR: the same or better (I think David Nelson makes it better than pre-Buddy)
DL: better (Darius and Mario Williams are definitely better than what we had)
LB: the same (Barnett is an improvement but Sheppard is a downgrade from Puz)
CB: the same or better (a bit of a wash between injury-prone McGee and rookie Gilmore)
S: the same

By my reckoning, they may have improved in 6 of the 8 categories. That’s also testament to how bad this team was when he took over as GM.

I now think the Bills are poised to take a QB in an early round and have the supporting cast to make him successful. I do think LB and CB could use improvement first but QB now should not be far behind.

My 2 cents.
Nice post.  You make a good argument.  I am also a Buddy fan and this solidified that further.  I have always been a fan of going for big players who can push their opponent around.  It drove me crazy when we were bringing in undersized guys all the time during the Jauron era.  Buddy's philosophy player wise is a big improvement and the correct one.  The only area I would disagree is that we are the same or better at cornerback.

Edited by The Voice of Truth, 20 November 2012 - 05:28 PM.