46 replies to this topic

[Jerry Jabber]

Arthur Moats was a DE in college. Since he's been on the Bills, he's been shuffled all over the field and back again, from ILB to OLB to DE and back and forth numerous times. Moats is back at DE and is earning praise again from Gailey: "In recent weeks, he's moved back to his original position in the NFL -- DE, which is also where he played in college -- and he's given the Bills' injured defensive line a boost with limited reps. “We've been a little thin at defensive end and to give those guys a blow,” Gailey said. “And to be honest, the first time he went in there two weeks ago, he pushed the tackle right back into the quarterback and we remember what he did do when he was playing defensive end. It makes you remember those things, he's been at linebacker so long. So he's been a good change of pace to give us a little rest and give a little pressure to the quarterback.” http://www.cbssports...-chris-hairston

Also, look at last year when Alex Carrington & Spencer Johnson were playing at OLB. Two 300+lb D-linemen playing OLB? WTF were they thinking?! Carrington is having a break out year this year (so far) at defensive tackle and had his best game to date this past Sunday. Aaron Williams is another player that draft experts said would be a safety in the NFL, but yet the Bills put him in at CB. AW has been terrible at CB for the Bills this year.

[C.Biscuit97]

Glenn, Wilson, Stevie Johnson and Nelson (7th rounder and UDFA), Fred Jackson, Bryd (college cb).  But let's always focus on the negatives.

[Jerry Jabber]

C.Biscuit97, on 07 December 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Glenn, Wilson, Stevie Johnson and Nelson (7th rounder and UDFA), Fred Jackson, Bryd (college cb).  But let's always focus on the negatives.

I don't always focus on the negatives. I gave props to Fitz yesterday for having 3 consecutive seasons of passing 20TD's (first since Jim Kelly) and was bashed for it. Back to the subject at hand, if a player is better at one position than another, then you should put that player in the position that he does better at, that way the team benefits from it. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole does not work, It's not rocket science.

[BillsVet]

C.Biscuit97, on 07 December 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Glenn, Wilson, Stevie Johnson and Nelson (7th rounder and UDFA), Fred Jackson, Bryd (college cb).  But let's always focus on the negatives.

They're 15-29 in nearly 3 seasons and you're still banging the drum for the organization?  Even if you discount everything that preceded Nix, Gailey, et al. there's no excuse for not making the playoffs this season.  None.  Zero.

At this point, I have to believe you're pulling an ieatcrayonz with posts like this.  You really cannot be serious anymore, are you?

[marauderswr80]

Things tend to stick out like sore thumbs when your losing year after year! Trust me if we were winning games making playoffs this thread is never started....

[Jerry Jabber]

marauderswr80, on 07 December 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Things tend to stick out like sore thumbs when your losing year after year! Trust me if we were winning games making playoffs this thread is never started....

Winning cures a lot of things.

[Sisyphean Bills]

It is true that through the Modrak Era, the Bills did quite a bit of projecting.  While not always a bad thing, it might have served them better overall to actually go with what the player put on tape.

[Dr. Trooth]

Moats is a 3-4 OLB... and a very good one. The problem is, Buddy wentoff his original plan in switching to the 3-4.  In the end Moats is gingto en up playing, and thriving, in a 3-4 somewhere.  Pittsburg, Jets, Houston, New England... he could be a good fit for any of those teams.

[apuszczalowski]

You do realise that for 2 of the last 3 years, they were trying to run a 3-4 instead of a 4-3. Players that played in a 4-3 may end up fitting in better at a different position in a 3-4. Do you think Moats would have excelled as a DE in a 3-4? Usually a 4-3 DE will fit better as a LB in a 3-4 system.

I'm glad that they are willing to move guys around and look at them in other positions. With a Healthy Anderson, Kelsay, Mario Willams, Kyle Moore, and Shawne Merriman, do you think that Moats would have had a better chance sticking on this roster as a DE or LB?

[Ryan L Billz]

BillsVet, on 07 December 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

They're 15-29 in nearly 3 seasons and you're still banging the drum for the organization?  Even if you discount everything that preceded Nix, Gailey, et al. there's no excuse for not making the playoffs this season.  None.  Zero.

At this point, I have to believe you're pulling an ieatcrayonz with posts like this.  You really cannot be serious anymore, are you?

  very well put.   too much drum banging.

[Jerry Jabber]

apuszczalowski, on 07 December 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

You do realise that for 2 of the last 3 years, they were trying to run a 3-4 instead of a 4-3. Players that played in a 4-3 may end up fitting in better at a different position in a 3-4. Do you think Moats would have excelled as a DE in a 3-4? Usually a 4-3 DE will fit better as a LB in a 3-4 system.

I'm glad that they are willing to move guys around and look at them in other positions. With a Healthy Anderson, Kelsay, Mario Willams, Kyle Moore, and Shawne Merriman, do you think that Moats would have had a better chance sticking on this roster as a DE or LB?

Actually, the Bills ran a hybrid 3-4 defense, using the 4-3 about 40-45% of the time. We saw Moats have good production at OLB towards the end of the 2010 season (I believe), and earned recognition for ending Favre's Iron Man streak. I had no problem with Moats as an OLB, but the continuous switching back and forth from OLB to ILB was mind boggling. Moats is not an ILB, and did not do well at ILB. In a 3-4 defense, OLB are known to rush the passer, in a 4-3, OLB's are known for stopping the run and going out in coverage. Moats is good at rushing the passer, not playing out in coverage. Once, the Bills officially went back to a 4-3, they should have tried Moats out at both DE and OLB to see which one he did better at, that's poor evaluation on the Bills part.

The same with putting Carrington & Spencer Johnson, two 300+ defensive linemen in at OLB. That made absolutely no sense at all! How do you actually expect two guys, the sizes of Carrington & Sp Johnson to go out in coverage?! Explain that one!!

[Carey Bender]

While it might be mismanagement of that specific one player, it may be better for the roster and team to move him around, or even for that player because it gives him a job.

Meaning, if Moats were playing DE (perhaps the position he's best suited for) he likely wouldn't be on the roster at all due to the depth they have. Moving him to OLB doesn't give them the best Moats has to offer, but they keep Moats and he gives them a better depth player at OLB than what they had at that position and a guy to play specs.

Spencer Johnson working at 34 OLB was odd, but I recall them mainly playing him as an edge player, not in coverage where he'd be a severe liability. So basically playing the role of a 43 end.

I only recall Carrington playing OLB in practice, not in games, perhaps he did, I dunno. But if he did I assume it was in the same capacity as Spencer. I only recall him playing 34 DE after Kyle Williams went out for the year.

Edited by Carey Bender, 07 December 2012 - 11:17 AM.

[Keukasmallies]

Ifs, buts; candy, nuts....

[C.Biscuit97]

BillsVet, on 07 December 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

They're 15-29 in nearly 3 seasons and you're still banging the drum for the organization?  Even if you discount everything that preceded Nix, Gailey, et al. there's no excuse for not making the playoffs this season.  None.  Zero.

At this point, I have to believe you're pulling an ieatcrayonz with posts like this.  You really cannot be serious anymore, are you?

No one's happy with the team failing to meet goals this year.  But I also think it's completely BS that people like yourself act like there are 0 positives or success stories on the team.  Obviously, this roster still needs work (mainly at QB and LB), but despite what you think, the glass isn't always completely empty.

[Nitro]

Defense you can easily guys playing out of position.  3-4 vs 4-3  Each demand a certain skill set from the D line and LBs.  Moats is a 4-3 end.  Might look like he can be a 3-4 OLB but he was a stand up DE.  Could not cover just like Kelsay and others forced into that roll. Management planned poorly.  If you were to switch defenses then draft accordingly and pick up free agents to fill the gap.  No matter who is the GM, the Bills fail to re-sign their good talent and let them walk.  It leads to a snow ball effect.  We had Winfield but let him walk and wasted several draft picks trying to replace him. I chalk the owes to the bean counters that Ralph Wilson relies on.

[JPS]

C.Biscuit97, on 07 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

No one's happy with the team failing to meet goals this year.  But I also think it's completely BS that people like yourself act like there are 0 positives or success stories on the team.  Obviously, this roster still needs work (mainly at QB and LB), but despite what you think, the glass isn't always completely empty.

I believe the glass is half full. It's the substance in the glass I have a problem with.

[Captain Hindsight]

Jerry Jabber, on 07 December 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I don't always focus on the negatives. I gave props to Fitz yesterday for having 3 consecutive seasons of passing 20TD's (first since Jim Kelly) and was bashed for it. Back to the subject at hand, if a player is better at one position than another, then you should put that player in the position that he does better at, that way the team benefits from it. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole does not work, It's not rocket science.

Well think back to last season when we had zero pass rush minus John Beck being John Beck. The Bills went out and signed two DE's. We had Merriman and Kelsey and Kyle Moore backing them up. Rather than simply release Moats, who has shown flashes of talent and is willing to do whats best fort he team, the Bills put him at LB, where we needed help. It didnt work and injuries have forced him to switch positions, but they tried to get the best 11 on the field.

[PromoTheRobot]

And yet we are all still here.  Why?

PTR

[prissythecat]

Dr. Trooth, on 07 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Moats is a 3-4 OLB... and a very good one. The problem is, Buddy wentoff his original plan in switching to the 3-4.  In the end Moats is gingto en up playing, and thriving, in a 3-4 somewhere.  Pittsburg, Jets, Houston, New England... he could be a good fit for any of those teams.

Under which grading system is Moats a very good linebacker?

[nodnarb]

I think the biggest mistake made in the Nix/Gailey era was to go from a 43 to a 34 and then back to 43. Those two years at 34 set us back considerably. Not only did they draft players for the 34, but they also asked players to switch schemes 3 times in 3 years. We forget that this scheme this year was new, hence the slow start on D. It set the team back considerably. There has been no continuity and as a result, many fans are calling for their heads...which would produce greater lack of continuity.

I want to see Nix/Gailey for another season to see what they can do vs a brutal schedule next year. 3 years isn't enough time.