60 replies to this topic

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Captain Hindsight, on 05 January 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

OLB vs MLB

There were plenty of reasons to be wary of this guy coming out. Bills drafted two LBs last year, let it go

WE don`t have a mlb or had. This is why we are da bills.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

31 other teams passed on him 7 times...sometimes these gambles work out....very frequently they do not.  Marvin Lewis took a chance, and for now at least it looks like he made a good decision.  We'll see how his career pans out.

[AReed Deep For6]

NoSaint, on 03 January 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Tossing around hypothetical failures beyond "he showed up fat and got cut in July.....

Him suiting up and losing a game for you by losing it on the field at a key time?

You passing on a MLB this spring because you think you have it addressed and he shows up out of shape, or fails a drug test, etc?

Hell, in a league that had a player kill himself at team facilities, kill a teammate this season, or even our own team with a hit and run with multiple teammates in the car? Dude was on a major self destructive spiral. Can you say that'd be impossible for a guy acting as terribly erratic and destructive as he was?

Sure you wouldn't lose a draft pick but there are still ways it could go wrong for the team. Sometimes, it's ok to say I'm not going to try to reform the guy.

  Nobody ever said he is the guy that breaks apart a locker room.  He had personal foul problems, which I will admit is a  big problem.  However, he was seen as a leader on that team, and he has had ZERO!! ZERO off the field issues.  He is a quiet shy kid off the field, one who comes to life and gets fired up to play.

[Joe_the_6_pack]

Johnny Hammersticks, on 05 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

31 other teams passed on him 7 times...sometimes these gambles work out....very frequently they do not.  Marvin Lewis took a chance, and for now at least it looks like he made a good decision.  We'll see how his career pans out.

Chances you have to take. That's where there's value and you round out winning squads. Bills need to lose the draft only "coachable choir boys" mentality.

Edited by Joe_the_6_pack, 05 January 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[DrDareustein]

Just STOP with this. Go read the article posted in the other Burfict thread and try to understand that his current situation is VERY lucky and specific to going to Marvin Lewis and the Bengals.

It was ONLY Marvin Lewis who took an interest in him and told his entire staff that if they sign him as an Undrafted Free Agent that Burfict would be his personal project.

It took Lewis, a winning, respected coach with a long tenure which affords him the time and ability to take on special projects, along with extra work by Zimmer (DC) and the LB position coach in order to get Burfict where he is today.

Great for the kid, and good for the Bengals. But anyone assuming that he would have had the same support network and special handling here in Buffalo which was implementing a brand new defense with a brand new DC (it's 3rd Defense and DC in 4 years), then you are out of your mind.

Each and every situation is different. Just because a player has success or busts out on one team, doesnt mean they would have had the same result somewhere else.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Joe_the_6_pack, on 05 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Chances you have to take. That's where there's value and you round out winning squads. Bills need to lose the draft only "coachable choir boys" mentality.

I`m with ya Joe. A 6th or 7th Cmon Man.

[DrDareustein]

Johnny Hammersticks, on 05 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

31 other teams passed on him 7 times...sometimes these gambles work out....very frequently they do not.  Marvin Lewis took a chance, and for now at least it looks like he made a good decision.  We'll see how his career pans out.

Actually 32 teams did. The Bengals wouldnt waste an actual pick on him either.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

DrDareustein, on 05 January 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Just STOP with this. Go read the article posted in the other Burfict thread and try to understand that his current situation is VERY lucky and specific to going to Marvin Lewis and the Bengals.

It was ONLY Marvin Lewis who took an interest in him and told his entire staff that if they sign him as an Undrafted Free Agent that Burfict would be his personal project.

It took Lewis, a winning, respected coach with a long tenure which affords him the time and ability to take on special projects, along with extra work by Zimmer (DC) and the LB position coach in order to get Burfict where he is today.

Great for the kid, and good for the Bengals. But anyone assuming that he would have had the same support network and special handling here in Buffalo which was implementing a brand new defense with a brand new DC (it's 3rd Defense and DC in 4 years), then you are out of your mind.

Each and every situation is different. Just because a player has success or busts out on one team, doesnt mean they would have had the same result somewhere else.

Excellent post.

[pimp 2]

Your comparison should be Burfict & Barnett. They both play the WLB position...the different approach by the DC also plays a part in this as well but I see your point.

Nick Barnett 112 72 40 2.0 3

[Buffaloed in Pa]

DrDareustein, on 05 January 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Actually 32 teams did. The Bengals wouldnt waste an actual pick on him either.

Your right.

[DrDareustein]

Joe_the_6_pack, on 05 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Chances you have to take. That's where there's value and you round out winning squads. Bills need to lose the draft only "coachable choir boys" mentality.

If I may quote our man K-9, who says it best...

K-9, on 03 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

You don't understand what Marv meant by character. He never equated that with choir boy behavior. He always referred to it as "football character." Football character is that personality trait a player possesses that makes him want to sacrifice what it takes to be the best. It's about the work put into the process and the accountability to your coaches and teammates. Few of his stars were perfect citizens off the field. Far from it. But they were all willing to pay the price necessary to be the best at what they did. For all the banned substances he took, nobody could match Bruce Smith's workout habits and film study dedication. He literally broke stairmasters keeping himself in shape. Spent hour upon hour studying opponents. That's just one example.

GO BILLS!!!

[RipfromPA]

Marvin's taken a lot of chances on "character.  They all have not worked out.  I think the Bengals led the league in jail time in the past.

[NoSaint]

DrDareustein, on 05 January 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Just STOP with this. Go read the article posted in the other Burfict thread and try to understand that his current situation is VERY lucky and specific to going to Marvin Lewis and the Bengals.

It was ONLY Marvin Lewis who took an interest in him and told his entire staff that if they sign him as an Undrafted Free Agent that Burfict would be his personal project.

It took Lewis, a winning, respected coach with a long tenure which affords him the time and ability to take on special projects, along with extra work by Zimmer (DC) and the LB position coach in order to get Burfict where he is today.

Great for the kid, and good for the Bengals. But anyone assuming that he would have had the same support network and special handling here in Buffalo which was implementing a brand new defense with a brand new DC (it's 3rd Defense and DC in 4 years), then you are out of your mind.

Each and every situation is different. Just because a player has success or busts out on one team, doesnt mean they would have had the same result somewhere else.

And lets not forget this will be his first offseason with time and money-- a dangerous combo for these guys.

[DrDareustein]

NoSaint, on 05 January 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

And lets not forget this will be his first offseason with time and money-- a dangerous combo for these guys.

Yeah, but Im not even worried about his behavior in the future. He could (and hopefully does) keep his nose clean and really grow up. That would be great.

But even if he does keep his head straight and have a long, illustrious career, to assume the same definitely would have happened in Buffalo is ridiculous.

Edit: This can and should be said about all players. Some yes, have that natural talent that is safe to bet would translate to other situations. But these special cases, and feel good stories, and especially QBS... tough to say everything would work out the same on different teams, in different cities, with different coaches, and different players, etc.

Edited by DrDareustein, 05 January 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[Kelly the Dog]

DrDareustein, on 05 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Yeah, but Im not even worried about his behavior in the future. He could (and hopefully does) keep his nose clean and really grow up. That would be great.

But even if he does keep his head straight and have a long, illustrious career, to assume the same definitely would have happened in Buffalo is ridiculous.

I was a huge Burfict fan for a couple years as ASU is my college team and I have seen pretty much every game he has played. And even I couldn't justify drafting him. I think I may have lobbied for taking a flyer on him in round seven.

I think Lewis has to get a lot of credit for what he did, but we don't really know what it was that turned VB around after the combine and he was getting notices of being "undraftable". The fact he was sending those letters out to coaches like Lewis suggests to me that he may have been ready to do the work and make the change. Just like an addict or couch potato or person being abused, at some point SOMETIMES you say enough is enough and you do what you need to do to get out of your rut.

What I will agree with you on is just because it happened in Cinci doesn't automatically mean he would have become the same player in Buffalo.

[NoSaint]

AReed Deep For6, on 05 January 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Nobody ever said he is the guy that breaks apart a locker room.  He had personal foul problems, which I will admit is a  big problem.  However, he was seen as a leader on that team, and he has had ZERO!! ZERO off the field issues.  He is a quiet shy kid off the field, one who comes to life and gets fired up to play.

Showing up out of shape and testing positive at the combine isn't an off field issue?

In fact not even Lewis thought it was a value in the 7th.

Edited by NoSaint, 05 January 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[AReed Deep For6]

NoSaint, on 05 January 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Showing up out of shape and testing positive at the combine isn't an off field issue?

In fact not even Lewis thought it was a value in the 7th.

All Im saying is this was a guy who got plenty of attention.  He was a potential first round pick, we took Tank Carder in the 5th... The risk reward made sense, and there were plenty of people on this board who could see it.

NoSaint, on 05 January 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Showing up out of shape and testing positive at the combine isn't an off field issue?

In fact not even Lewis thought it was a value in the 7th.

Touche.  Its bad news.  Still, I don't feel the off field issues were overly serious.  Was he smoking pot before the biggest "interviews" of his life? Yes.  However, when your talking about a player with first round talent (minus his problems, which may or may not be fixable) being taken in the 6th or 7th yes.  Would anyone here rather have had that kicker than Burfict?

[....lybob]

I saw VB a year before and he looked awesome, then he apparently decided not to workout at all and to eat to his hearts content,  he didn't look very awesome anymore in fact at times he looked like crap - went to the combine and stunk the place up 5+ forty and like 16 on the bench, came off as a guy who blames everybody else for his poor performance in the interview then tests positive for MJ- the guy has obvious first round talent if and it's a big if he stays motivated - a guy like this could be a pro-bowl player one year and out of the NFL the next

[DevilsAlum]

Garvis, on 03 January 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

I went to ASU during his playing days.  

Class of 92 here. Burfict had all the potential in the world but for whatever reason couldn't mentally get it together. It's great to see him living up to his potential and is another example of why I'm so thrilled with what Coach Graham has done this year

[Kipers Hair]

Buffaloed in Pa, on 05 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

WE don`t have a mlb or had. This is why we are da bills.

And that ladies and gentlemen is that....

NoSaint, on 05 January 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Showing up out of shape and testing positive at the combine isn't an off field issue?

In fact not even Lewis thought it was a value in the 7th.

How many times do we need to be reminded - the MJ is a cultural thing.  Had he not tested positive for it, it should have been a larger red flag.