81 replies to this topic

[hondo in seattle]

I don't evaluate coaches so much on their win-loss records but on what they did with the talent the players they were given.

One of the things that dismayed me about Chan was that I thought the 2012 Bills, with average coaching, should have achieved more than 6 wins.  I thought the defense, in particular, under-performed.  I remember Bills squads in the past that were decimated by injury that didn't give up as many points as this D did.  The offense had its share of disappointments, too.

But maybe I'm overrating the players and underrating the job done by Gailey and  Wanny.  Maybe the coaches just didn't have enough talent to  field on game day.  Maybe the Bills weren't out-coached as much as they were out-played.

So what do you guys think?  Does Marrone have enough toys to play with?

[CarolinaBill]

yes, this team is loaded with talent. Motivating them, coaching them up, getting them in position and properly managing the game is what was missing.  Do we have some areas to improve? sure but top to bottom, we got talented guys at ALMOST every position.

[Jim in Anchorage]

CarolinaBill, on 08 January 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

yes, this team is loaded with talent. Motivating them, coaching them up, getting them in position and properly managing the game is what was missing.  Do we have some areas to improve? sure but top to bottom, we got talented guys at ALMOST every position.

What makes you think they are so talented? I read this all the time but never proof.

[CarolinaBill]

Jim in Anchorage, on 08 January 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

What makes you think they are so talented? I read this all the time but never proof.

again, having talent, which we do, and getting that talent to reach its maximum potential through proper coaching and training, gameplanning etc is a different story.

Think about it like this: I have a super bouncy ball, if i drop it from waist level it may bounce up to me eye level but never much higher, even though it has the potential to do so, however if I were to throw it down as hard as possible it would bounce really high. Get it.

[Jim in Anchorage]

CarolinaBill, on 08 January 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

again, having talent, which we do, and getting that talent to reach its maximum potential through proper coaching and training, gameplanning etc is a different story.

Think about it like this: I have a super bouncy ball, if i drop it from waist level it may bounce up to me eye level but never much higher, even though it has the potential to do so, however if I were to throw it down as hard as possible it would bounce really high. Get it.

Fine but what is the actual evidence the Bills have all this talent and it's just being misused?

[CarolinaBill]

Jim in Anchorage, on 08 January 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Fine but what is the actual evidence the Bills have all this talent and it's just being misused?

the roster is the evidence, jim.
aside from QB we have guys at every position that are quality players, we need better lbs, some wr depth, and a Qb.
spiller, johnson, graham, chandler, wood, urbik, levitre, glenn, mario, anderson, dareus, kw, byrd, searcy, gilmore, brooks, and young guys like shep and bradham are still developing. thats a great group of relatively young talent.

[JohnC]

Jim in Anchorage, on 08 January 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

What makes you think they are so talented? I read this all the time but never proof.

When the Bills played San Fran and Seattle, both upper tier teams, they got steamrolled. The difference in talent was stark.

Chan Gailey is not an upper tier HC. But that doesn't mean he isn't a competent coach. His roster had large gaping holes that couldn't be overcome. If he had a good qb he would probably still be the HC. But even with a qb upgrade there are still other major holes that need to be filled, especially from the LBing and receiving units.

[Ryan L Billz]

QB, CB (2,3) Gilmore's set IMO.......... ILB and possibly another WR..................rest of team is pretty talented IMO.

seems like a ton of talent IMO.

Edited by Ryan L Billz, 08 January 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[PearlHowardman]

CarolinaBill, on 08 January 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

...aside from QB...

QB is the most important position on the team.  And we don't have a QB.  That's a huge long-term problem!

[CarolinaBill]

the question was about team talent, we have alot, but the areas where its lacking are gaping holes

[BuffBill]

CarolinaBill, on 08 January 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

yes, this team is loaded with talent. Motivating them, coaching them up, getting them in position and properly managing the game is what was missing.  Do we have some areas to improve? sure but top to bottom, we got talented guys at ALMOST every position.

Loaded might be a little too strong of a word.  I think they might be well stocked with players with potential that haven't yet become top talent, but haven't become total disappontments yet either.  Some examples are Gilmore-had some good plays, plenty bad plays, he was a rookie, but nothing says he is going to be a shut down corner yet.  Cordy Glenn, looked really good the beginning of the season, not so great towards the end, jury is still out on him, at one of the most important positions on the team.  Eric Wood, plays really well when he plays, can't stay healthy.  Not saying they have no talent, but not alot of guaranteed stars or top 10 players at their positions.  Spiller, Byrd (if he resigns), Levitre (if he resigns), Mario (fingers crossed), Kyle Williams (when he is on), may be the only dependable players that I would rank in top 10 at their positions.  If Stevie Johnson was a #2 I would rank him in the top 10, not as a #1 receiver.

Edited by BuffBill, 08 January 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Jim in Anchorage]

CarolinaBill, on 08 January 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

the roster is the evidence, jim.
aside from QB we have guys at every position that are quality players, we need better lbs, some wr depth, and a Qb.
spiller, johnson, graham, chandler, wood, urbik, levitre, glenn, mario, anderson, dareus, kw, byrd, searcy, gilmore, brooks, and young guys like shep and bradham are still developing. thats a great group of relatively young talent.

Those names sound good to you because you are a Bills fan. Some of them could not make a lot of other teams rosters.

[BmoreBills]

Jim in Anchorage, on 08 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Those names sound good to you because you are a Bills fan. Some of them could not make a lot of other teams rosters.

Names like Leonhard, Greer, Hangartner, etc. were some of those 'guys' at one time and they not only made rosters, but made their teams better. Face it, we have been the Black Hole of retaining young talent.

[CarolinaBill]

Jim in Anchorage, on 08 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Those names sound good to you because you are a Bills fan. Some of them could not make a lot of other teams rosters.

nope, thats not the case, all of these guys were high rated draft picks except stevie. Now, some didnt pan out with their first teams, but have rebounded to become solid players.
Matter of fact which ones couldnt make another teams roster?

[JPS]

Many players are talented.  Ryan Leaf was talented. Steve Emtmann was talented. Charles Rogers (Deroit WR) was talented.  The question is: Do they have the players with the size, speed, head, health and heart to be effective on the field.

I'll let their record against the AFC East over the last 3 years answer that question.

[Jim in Anchorage]

CarolinaBill, on 08 January 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

nope, thats not the case, all of these guys were high rated draft picks except stevie. Now, some didnt pan out with their first teams, but have rebounded to become solid players.
Matter of fact which ones couldnt make another teams roster?

I didn't say they couldn't make ANY other teams  roster.
Some ones always looking to plug a hole. But aside from CJ and Mario they would hardy be hot must get FA's.

[K-9]

I would think the answer to this question is obvious. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. Imo we don't have one starting caliber LB, SS, or second CB. And we have a hole at RDE because Kyle Moore is one of the poorest run defenders I've seen at the position in a while.

When I watch these guys, I see things that a player either has or doesn't. Things that schemes and coaching can't do much, if anything about, unfortunately.

GO BILLS!!!

[metzelaars_lives]

Jim in Anchorage, on 08 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Those names sound good to you because you are a Bills fan. Some of them could not make a lot of other teams rosters.

Exaggeration alert. ALL of them would make every roster in the league with the possible exception of Sheppard, who sucks. However, he was a consensus 3rd round pick just a year ago, so I'm pretty sure every team in the league would've kept him around for one more season. Same goes for Graham next year. Every single one of those other guys would be welcomed by every other team in the league in a depth role at the very least.  Guys like Spiller, Stevie, Wood, Levitre, Glenn, Urbik, Mario, Dareus, KW (when healthy), Gilmore and Byrd would start on just about every team in this league.

Edited by metzelaars_lives, 08 January 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[DisplacedBillsFan]

Jim in Anchorage, on 08 January 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

I didn't say they couldn't make ANY other teams  roster.
Some ones always looking to plug a hole. But aside from CJ and Mario they would hardy be hot must get FA's.

Are you kidding me? Almost every name on that list would be hotly pursued by multiple teams if they were free agents, and would demand a lot more on the open market than their current contracts.

[DStebb716]

Well if you just look at it by position, the Bills have a legitimate starters at WR1, WR3, TE, RB1, RB2, FB, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, DE1, DT1, DT 2, CB1, FS, P, LS, KR. That is if the major FA are resigned. There could obviously be improvements to some of those spots, but for the most part those guys could start in multiple cities around the NFL and do at least a solid job. That leaves QB (2-3 spots), WR2, DE2, OLBx2, MLB, SS, CB2, CB3.
That's really 10 holes, which is a lot. But there are guys at those positions that could potentially get better or fill the hole while we pay attention to other positions.
Guys at those positions that I think are capable of becoming good players or filling the hole: Nigel Bradham at OLB, Da'Norris Searcy at SS, Mark Anderson at DE2 and one of our young guys should be able to shape into a third/nickel corner.

That leaves six needs to make a move on this offseason, along with depth/injury replacements.