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46 Formation

who goes where?

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#1 Whitewalker Merriman

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

Well, while we can certainly debate whether we're going to play 3-4 or 4-3, how about we take a look at the 46 scheme? It's a very agressive style designed for run stuffing and bringing heat and I think it's promising for our scheme. It can be a subpackage as a 3-4 defense since it uses a nose tackle but uses four down linemen and calls up the SS to act as linebacker. We already Scott as a tweener and Williams and Anderson are great speed tackles.

Any thought about its use, or where we would like to see people placed?

#2 BringBackFergy

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:53 PM

View PostWhitewalker Merriman, on 09 January 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Well, while we can certainly debate whether we're going to play 3-4 or 4-3, how about we take a look at the 46 scheme? It's a very agressive style designed for run stuffing and bringing heat and I think it's promising for our scheme. It can be a subpackage as a 3-4 defense since it uses a nose tackle but uses four down linemen and calls up the SS to act as linebacker. We already Scott as a tweener and Williams and Anderson are great speed tackles.

Any thought about its use, or where we would like to see people placed?

No opinion on it but thank you for the lesson...I had no idea what it was until you explained it.
What is your opinion of it..? What other teams run it in the NFL??
Just learning here.

#3 Ryan911t

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

I used to run this all the time in Madden '06. Based on that, I say that we absolutely should run it!

#4 sjjr

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:17 PM

The Jets, Ravens and Cowboys have run it in the past.

Maybe the Bills can bring in L.Landry at Safety, Devito for DL depth and B.Scott to compete with Moats at SILB.  Could convert A.Williams to FS, especially if Byrd doesn't come back.  The three man front of Dareus at SDE, K.Williams on the nose and Carrington at WDE sounds good to go with M.Williams and M.Anderson at OLBs.

Big concern is another CB to go across from Gilmore.  Unless Brooks develops into a starter that can play man.  They also need a nickel corner.

Could be a good defense right away.

#5 Triple Threat

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostWhitewalker Merriman, on 09 January 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Well, while we can certainly debate whether we're going to play 3-4 or 4-3, how about we take a look at the 46 scheme? It's a very agressive style designed for run stuffing and bringing heat and I think it's promising for our scheme. It can be a subpackage as a 3-4 defense since it uses a nose tackle but uses four down linemen and calls up the SS to act as linebacker. We already Scott as a tweener and Williams and Anderson are great speed tackles.

Any thought about its use, or where we would like to see people placed?

Anderson is a tackle?

#6 Whitewalker Merriman

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostTriple Threat, on 09 January 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:



Anderson is a tackle?

Heh, thanks for catching that. Ends, I meant ends. Both have been put as OLB's in the past, though admittedly Mario is a much better fit in a 4-3.

View Postsjjr, on 09 January 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

The Jets, Ravens and Cowboys have run it in the past.

Maybe the Bills can bring in L.Landry at Safety, Devito for DL depth and B.Scott to compete with Moats at SILB.  Could convert A.Williams to FS, especially if Byrd doesn't come back.  The three man front of Dareus at SDE, K.Williams on the nose and Carrington at WDE sounds good to go with M.Williams and M.Anderson at OLBs.

Big concern is another CB to go across from Gilmore.  Unless Brooks develops into a starter that can play man.  They also need a nickel corner.

Could be a good defense right away.

I like how you think. Of course I would love Teo as an ILB but he may not be a good fit. I do think that Carrington finally showed that Buddy wasn't entirely wrong about him and I think he could be a good fit and I like the idea of bringing A. Williams in, since he lacks ball skills but has great size and speed (though I'm privately sure that Pettine will beg Buddy to do whatever it takes to keep Byrd)

I do agree that we need someone across from Gilmore and I'm hoping that it's Rodgers or Brooks, especially since they would have to win a lot of 1 on 1 battles to prevent opponents from running the West Coast Offense all day on us.

#7 JM57

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

View PostWhitewalker Merriman, on 09 January 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:



Heh, thanks for catching that. Ends, I meant ends. Both have been put as OLB's in the past, though admittedly Mario is a much better fit in a 4-3.



I like how you think. Of course I would love Teo as an ILB but he may not be a good fit. I do think that Carrington finally showed that Buddy wasn't entirely wrong about him and I think he could be a good fit and I like the idea of bringing A. Williams in, since he lacks ball skills but has great size and speed (though I'm privately sure that Pettine will beg Buddy to do whatever it takes to keep Byrd)

I do agree that we need someone across from Gilmore and I'm hoping that it's Rodgers or Brooks, especially since they would have to win a lot of 1 on 1 battles to prevent opponents from running the West Coast Offense all day on us.

Just my personal thoughts, but I think they're going to have to bring someone else in to play CB. Ron Brooks and Justin Rogers could both continue to develop, but they (and McKelvin if he's brought back, which I think he should be) both share the same flaw in their game.

When they are playing on the outside, they get lost in space, so to speak. They have the quickness and agility to excel as nickel/dime backs, covering guys from the slot, because their skill sets are assets to the quick/underneath/crossing routes. When they play on the outside, there are so many more (hypothetical) possibilites for each play, and you can see that they struggle mightily playing out there. For example, the TD drive in the Rams game. Brooks was absolutely abused.

#8 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

"Kyle Williams played effectively as an undersized nose tackle for a bit in 2010 and 2011, but would probably be best suited at defensive end.
Players that are normally defensive ends in the four-man front, often transition to outside linebacker in the 3-4, where they are responsible for rushing the passer as well as dropping into coverage. If the Bills operate out of a three man front, Mario Williams will still be rushing the passer; just from a different spot on the field. This is very similar to how Pettine used Terrell Suggs with the Ravens, or Calvin Pace with the Jets.
When used correctly, the 3-4 is designed to occupy all five offensive lineman with just three defensive lineman. This creates a mismatch in the defense’s favor, which allows linebackers or defensive backs to blitz, while essentially unblocked.
As for the linebackers, they also need to be bigger and stronger than those in the three man front. The 3-4 also uses two inside linebackers instead of one middle linebacker. These inside linebackers are usually outside linebackers in the 4-3. Nick Barnett was a very effective inside linebacker for the Green Bay Packers’ 3-4 defense before making the switch to weakside linebacker in the Buffalo Bills’ 4-3. Nigel Bradham, the team’s strong side linebacker, would most likely become the strong side inside linebacker in a 3-4. The inside linebackers are primarily responsible for stuffing the “A” gaps. The “A” gaps are the gaps on each side of the center. There are two A gaps, one for each inside linebacker. Having two inside linebackers creates more flexibility with the middle of the defense also.
The main weakness of the 3-4 as you would imagine, is being attacked in the middle. If a nose tackle cannot consistently occupy two or three blockers, there will be holes on either of his sides.
Pettine’s defenses combat this utilizing the over/under looks, by shifting the defensive line one way, and the linebackers in another direction. This essentially fills the voids in the defense, by creating a “Hybrid” defensive end/ outside linebacker."





http://queencityspor...d-how-it-works/

#9 The Poojer

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:31 PM

thank you for providing this...it is VERY informative....to me they are all just players, i wouldn't know a 3-4 from a 7-8

View PostBuffalo Barbarian, on 09 January 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

"Kyle Williams played effectively as an undersized nose tackle for a bit in 2010 and 2011, but would probably be best suited at defensive end.
Players that are normally defensive ends in the four-man front, often transition to outside linebacker in the 3-4, where they are responsible for rushing the passer as well as dropping into coverage. If the Bills operate out of a three man front, Mario Williams will still be rushing the passer; just from a different spot on the field. This is very similar to how Pettine used Terrell Suggs with the Ravens, or Calvin Pace with the Jets.
When used correctly, the 3-4 is designed to occupy all five offensive lineman with just three defensive lineman. This creates a mismatch in the defense’s favor, which allows linebackers or defensive backs to blitz, while essentially unblocked.
As for the linebackers, they also need to be bigger and stronger than those in the three man front. The 3-4 also uses two inside linebackers instead of one middle linebacker. These inside linebackers are usually outside linebackers in the 4-3. Nick Barnett was a very effective inside linebacker for the Green Bay Packers’ 3-4 defense before making the switch to weakside linebacker in the Buffalo Bills’ 4-3. Nigel Bradham, the team’s strong side linebacker, would most likely become the strong side inside linebacker in a 3-4. The inside linebackers are primarily responsible for stuffing the “A” gaps. The “A” gaps are the gaps on each side of the center. There are two A gaps, one for each inside linebacker. Having two inside linebackers creates more flexibility with the middle of the defense also.
The main weakness of the 3-4 as you would imagine, is being attacked in the middle. If a nose tackle cannot consistently occupy two or three blockers, there will be holes on either of his sides.
Pettine’s defenses combat this utilizing the over/under looks, by shifting the defensive line one way, and the linebackers in another direction. This essentially fills the voids in the defense, by creating a “Hybrid” defensive end/ outside linebacker."





http://queencityspor...d-how-it-works/


#10 Whitewalker Merriman

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

Perhaps Dareus would be better as the NT, since he's a little bigger. But the nice part of the 46 is that it brings in a fourth person in, and I would see that a 4-3 over would be a little closer to what he had last year.

#11 The Poojer

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

by the way, your initial post was very informative as well...us simple folks like it when you make it simple for us to understand! :thumbsup:

View PostWhitewalker Merriman, on 09 January 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

Perhaps Dareus would be better as the NT, since he's a little bigger. But the nice part of the 46 is that it brings in a fourth person in, and I would see that a 4-3 over would be a little closer to what he had last year.


#12 K-9

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:22 PM

Gotta have two CBs who can play press man. That is imperative. I like Gilmore's upside but I haven't seen anyone else I'd trust at the moment.

GO BILLS!!!

#13 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostK-9, on 09 January 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Gotta have two CBs who can play press man. That is imperative. I like Gilmore's upside but I haven't seen anyone else I'd trust at the moment.

GO BILLS!!!

Dee Milliner

#14 K-9

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostBuffalo Barbarian, on 09 January 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Dee Milliner

Makes perfect sense to me given what we've seen out of the Jest and Ravens with Ryan/Pettine defenses. We could have our version of Revis/Cromartie. I think half the board would melt with the selection of another CB at 8, but I would be OK with it.

GO BILLS!!!

#15 Whitewalker Merriman

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostThe Poojer, on 09 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

by the way, your initial post was very informative as well...us simple folks like it when you make it simple for us to understand! :thumbsup:

Well thanks...to be honest, I mostly cribbed it from links from Wikipedia so I'm hardly an expert. I'm glad that I was able to explain it decently.

I agree that if we go with this, we could certainly need another CB for press coverage. While we might be able to get a decent performance out of someone on the roster, we would really need for them to step it up.

Either way, I'm eager and excited to see what Pettine comes up with. :thumbsup:

#16 swnybillsfan

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostK-9, on 09 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Makes perfect sense to me given what we've seen out of the Jest and Ravens with Ryan/Pettine defenses. We could have our version of Revis/Cromartie. I think half the board would melt with the selection of another CB at 8, but I would be OK with it.

GO BILLS!!!
while i would eventually come to grips with it, if the words "with the 8th selectio n i nthe 2013 nfl draft, the buffalo bills select -------, cb ------- ...there will be filth flowing from my mouth that will likely get me divorced and put my kids in therapy.

#17 switz1610

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:43 PM

Not to jump the gun on switching to the 46 but if we do end up running it, would Merriman be worth resigning? People knock him for his injury history but he is a good locker room guy and helps with free agents. Who knows he might even be productive.

#18 SBUffalo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

Merriman is worth resigning either way as long as he comes VERY cheap. I think he offers something as a rotational guy at multiple positions in different schemes. Flexible when healthy.

#19 Dr. Trooth

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

Dude. Merriman plays like he's 46. So, no he can't play the 46 and no we shouldn't even think about resigning.

#20 jboyst62

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

Bryan Scott is set to be a free agent.  He signed a 1 year deal last year.