109 replies to this topic

[ganesh]

Came across this good article that describes, why even Bellichek chose not to pick Brady in the 5th round, the circumstances surrounding why Brady fell so far out and what was burning inside him.


Really nice article. http://nesn.com/2011...-of-2000-draft/

[mannc]

Thanks for posting.  Great article and I think relevant to many of the posts here of late re drafting a QB.  Would like to see the ESPN show.

[Corp000085]

I saw that show when it was on a few years ago...  I will get shredded for this, but its very tough to not root for the guy.  I can't stand him cause he constantly beat the Bills but he effectively started out as a complete scrub and is now considered one of the best ever.  I happened to sit next to his family at the first or 2nd Bills game that he played in 2000 or 2001.  They were very normal people and were just rooting for their son.  Yes, he comes off as arrogant now, yes he's the son of satan because he dominates, but seriously, how can anyone not respect what he's done.  One of the best ever, if not the best ever, from very humble beginnings.  Dude looked like he should have been playing Everquest in a Michigan dorm room all day rather than working out for an NFL team's draft board back in the day...

[plenzmd1]

Corp000085, on 16 January 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

I saw that show when it was on a few years ago...  I will get shredded for this, but its very tough to not root for the guy.  I can't stand him cause he constantly beat the Bills but he effectively started out as a complete scrub and is now considered one of the best ever.  I happened to sit next to his family at the first or 2nd Bills game that he played in 2000 or 2001.  They were very normal people and were just rooting for their son.  Yes, he comes off as arrogant now, yes he's the son of satan because he dominates, but seriously, how can anyone not respect what he's done.  One of the best ever, if not the best ever, from very humble beginnings.  Dude looked like he should have been playing Everquest in a Michigan dorm room all day rather than working out for an NFL team's draft board back in the day...

Agreed Corp.

[mannc]

Corp000085, on 16 January 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

I saw that show when it was on a few years ago...  I will get shredded for this, but its very tough to not root for the guy.  I can't stand him cause he constantly beat the Bills but he effectively started out as a complete scrub and is now considered one of the best ever.  I happened to sit next to his family at the first or 2nd Bills game that he played in 2000 or 2001.  They were very normal people and were just rooting for their son.  Yes, he comes off as arrogant now, yes he's the son of satan because he dominates, but seriously, how can anyone not respect what he's done.  One of the best ever, if not the best ever, from very humble beginnings.  Dude looked like he should have been playing Everquest in a Michigan dorm room all day rather than working out for an NFL team's draft board back in the day...

Totally agree.  He is the best ever to play the position.  How can you not respect him?

Edited by mannc, 16 January 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[JohnnyGold]

mannc, on 16 January 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Totally agree.  He is the best ever to play the position.  How can you not respect him?

when the patriots were cheating, and brady knew what defenses he was going up against, he won 3 super bowls (barely).

since then--and if you look at brady's career in a vacuum that exists entirely post spygate--he is a very good quarterback who is routinely beaten by eli manning in the biggest of games, and puts up guady numbers because of the offensive system the patriots run. the patriots have proved over the last decade (since winning their last super bowl,) that they are paper tigers. unfortunately, their super bowl wins will never be vacated, because the league does not want to tarnish the brand that is THE SUPER BOWL. however, as fans, we have the power to know the truth.

eli and big ben have both won multiple to superbowls since brady has won one without the team cheating. mods should delete this thread for that reason alone, as i feel that clearly makes them better quarterbacks than brady--hell, manning beat brady to win both of his super bowls.

[Jim in Anchorage]

JohnnyGold, on 16 January 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

when the patriots were cheating, and brady knew what defenses he was going up against, he won 3 super bowls (barely).

since then--and if you look at brady's career in a vacuum that exists entirely post spygate--he is a very good quarterback who is routinely beaten by eli manning in the biggest of games, and puts up guady numbers because of the offensive system the patriots run. the patriots have proved over the last decade (since winning their last super bowl,) that they are paper tigers. unfortunately, their super bowl wins will never be vacated, because the league does not want to tarnish the brand that is THE SUPER BOWL. however, as fans, we have the power to know the truth.

eli and big ben have both won multiple to superbowls since brady has won one without the team cheating. mods should delete this thread for that reason alone, as i feel that clearly makes them better quarterbacks than brady--hell, manning beat brady to win both of his super bowls.

Such bitterness.

[ganesh]

JohnnyGold, on 16 January 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

when the patriots were cheating, and brady knew what defenses he was going up against, he won 3 super bowls (barely).

since then--and if you look at brady's career in a vacuum that exists entirely post spygate--he is a very good quarterback who is routinely beaten by eli manning in the biggest of games, and puts up guady numbers because of the offensive system the patriots run. the patriots have proved over the last decade (since winning their last super bowl,) that they are paper tigers. unfortunately, their super bowl wins will never be vacated, because the league does not want to tarnish the brand that is THE SUPER BOWL. however, as fans, we have the power to know the truth.

eli and big ben have both won multiple to superbowls since brady has won one without the team cheating. mods should delete this thread for that reason alone, as i feel that clearly makes them better quarterbacks than brady--hell, manning beat brady to win both of his super bowls.

This thread is not about if Brady is the greatest QB or if he cheated....It was simply to provide info as to where he was prior to that ill-fated draft (For the Bills).   The fact that he has made 2 other super bowls post cheating and is on his way to another one possibly this year shows that he is not your average QB.   The phenomenal numbers this guy has put year-in-year-out the past 7-8 years is simply mind boggling.  Please give credit where credit is due.

[Meathead]

hes very good and may be the best ever but for him and his wonderful family his legacy will always be as a cheater

[C.Biscuit97]

Still can't believe we took Leif Larson over him.  idiots!!!

[Jim in Anchorage]

Meathead, on 16 January 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

hes very good and may be the best ever but for him and his wonderful family his legacy will always be as a cheater

More bitterness and envy..No one outside the AFC East even remembers that, much less dwell on it like done here.

[BuffaloBill]

Corp000085, on 16 January 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

I saw that show when it was on a few years ago...  I will get shredded for this, but its very tough to not root for the guy.  I can't stand him cause he constantly beat the Bills but he effectively started out as a complete scrub and is now considered one of the best ever.  I happened to sit next to his family at the first or 2nd Bills game that he played in 2000 or 2001.  They were very normal people and were just rooting for their son.  Yes, he comes off as arrogant now, yes he's the son of satan because he dominates, but seriously, how can anyone not respect what he's done.  One of the best ever, if not the best ever, from very humble beginnings.  Dude looked like he should have been playing Everquest in a Michigan dorm room all day rather than working out for an NFL team's draft board back in the day...

Hard to believe he was not even the full time starter at Michigan.  Just goes to show that not everything is about the numbers.

[BuffaloWings]

Jim in Anchorage, on 16 January 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

More bitterness and envy..No one outside the AFC East even remembers that, much less dwell on it like done here.

Um...it got significant national attention. I don't think fans will ever forget that.

In a way, I do have to agree with Meathead (your avatar still creeps me out). There will always be a tarnish on his legacy for those Superbowl wins, knowing what Belichick and staff were caught doing. I won't deny the sour grapes, since they continue to beat up on the Bills and everyone in the league, but the way they keep playing these days, it still looks too easy for them. I mean...when Wes Welker catches 11-12 balls a game, how is it that defenses leave him wide open on almost every play?

What I do respect about Brady is how he became an elite NFL QB after being drafted so low. That's gotta take a ton of hard work and patience. Even if he does know what the defenses will do, you still have to execute. As a Michigan fan, I do remember the QB battle between him and Drew Henson and telling a friend that it was clear to me that Brady was the better QB of the two. I never expected this out of him, but I do remember thinking that he was a good college QB and could make it in the NFL.

Brady runs the offense like a machine and he has a good OL to support him. He will go down as one of the greatest and will end up in Canton.

BuffaloBill, on 16 January 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Hard to believe he was not even the full time starter at Michigan.  Just goes to show that not everything is about the numbers.

He was going up against Henson, who was supposed to be the best QB ever. Lloyd Carr had to give Henson playing time because of how highly regarded he was.

[Mark80]

In that ESPN piece, Robert Kraft also remembered a story that went something like this:

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft enjoys telling the story about how he met Tom Brady for the first time. It was during the 2000 mini-camp when Brady was a rookie buried at the bottom of the depth chart.

He stopped Kraft one day after practice. “We’ve never met,” he said, “but I’m Tom Brady.” Kraft said, “I know who you are, you’re the quarterback from Michigan. You were our sixth round draft choice.”

Kraft recalls Brady saying, “Yes, and I’m the best decision this organization has ever made.”

I love that kind of attitude and cockiness, especially from the QB position. I agree completely with other posters, as much as I hate the guy (his talent, his wins, his stats, his Super Bowls, his money, his looks, his super hot and even wealthier wife) I've got to respect him. He possesses a drive in him that is very rare in a person.

[KD in CT]

BuffaloWings, on 16 January 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

He was going up against Henson, who was supposed to be the best QB ever. Lloyd Carr had to give Henson playing time because of how highly regarded he was.

And IIRC, Brady consistantly outplayed Henson and ended up as the primary QB his last two years on some very good Michigan teams.  And that was basically the end of Henson as a football player.

Point is, he was a very good QB for one of the best teams in the country;  kinda like Russell Wilson last year.   Just goes to show that the NFL talent people still have trouble seeing beyond their preconceived notions about certain 'measureables'.

[silvermike]

I will admit that I was rooting for Brady in 2001.  Young, unheralded QB, beat out old veteran, upset a powerhouse in the Super Bowl with one drive at exactly the right time.

By 2003, he was unbearable.

[TheMadCap]

silvermike, on 16 January 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

I will admit that I was rooting for Brady in 2001.  Young, unheralded QB, beat out old veteran, upset a powerhouse in the Super Bowl with one drive at exactly the right time.

By 2003, he was unbearable.

I'll admit that as well. They were a great story in 2001, and I was very anti-Steelers at the time. And who really gives a crap about the Rams?

[SouthernMan]

Mark80, on 16 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Kraft recalls Brady saying, “Yes, and I’m the best decision this organization has ever made.”

And a prophet too!

The same envious Bills fans here who have trouble admiring Brady and try to downplay his greatness citing chery picked statistics, are the same ones that would be doing backflips if he suddenly became a Buffalo Bill.

As a Bills fan I hate the guy.  As an NFL fan who recognizes greatness, Brady is probably the best QB in NFL history. He studies the opposing defenses and knows them like the back of his hand. He makes perfect reads under pressure. His passes are on the money. (he could teach Fitz a thing or two about hitting a receiver on target with the long ball)

Like all teams, the Patriots have gone through attritional changes over his 13 year career.  In 12 seasons from 2001-2012 the Patriots have won 10 division titles.  1 of the 2 in which they didn't, Brady was put no IR after game 1.  The only constants through coaching and player changes - Belichick and Brady.

Until Brady retires or become physically inefficient, the Bills (and the rest of the AFC East) will have an uphill battle being anything more than a wildcard contender in the AFC playoffs.

Brady should get a pass on the HOF waiting period.  Maybe he can have Bills 2000 first round draft pick Erik Flowers valet park his car for him at the induction ceromony.

[mrags]

Mark80, on 16 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

In that ESPN piece, Robert Kraft also remembered a story that went something like this:

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft enjoys telling the story about how he met Tom Brady for the first time. It was during the 2000 mini-camp when Brady was a rookie buried at the bottom of the depth chart.

He stopped Kraft one day after practice. “We’ve never met,” he said, “but I’m Tom Brady.” Kraft said, “I know who you are, you’re the quarterback from Michigan. You were our sixth round draft choice.”

Kraft recalls Brady saying, “Yes, and I’m the best decision this organization has ever made.”

I love that kind of attitude and cockiness, especially from the QB position. I agree completely with other posters, as much as I hate the guy (his talent, his wins, his stats, his Super Bowls, his money, his looks, his super hot and even wealthier wife) I've got to respect him. He possesses a drive in him that is very rare in a person.

i agree with all this, however, I still hope he suffers for the rest of his life. I hate him with a passion that is unmatched by very few.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I hate Brady, but damn if you can't respect him on some levels.  If he weren't so whiny and cocky on the field, I'd even call him admirable.