Jump to content


Simmons article questioning Ray Lewis


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 Bronc24

Bronc24

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,959 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:33 AM

http://www.grantland...sk-ped-question

What he forgot to state is that Lewis beat the Patriots* at their own game:  cheating.

#2 mrags

mrags

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,087 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

If your referring to roids, it can't be said until he comes out and admits it or fails a test.

I dare say that (without any knowledge or proof) that over 90% of the league (leaving out the kickers) are on roids.

#3 mannc

mannc

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:51 AM

View Postmrags, on 03 February 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

If your referring to roids, it can't be said until he comes out and admits it or fails a test.

Oh, it most definitely can be said before then.  If we have learned anything about PEDs, it is "where there is smoke, there is fire".

#4 J-E-T-S-L-O-L

J-E-T-S-L-O-L

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:55 AM

Ray Lewis got the antler spray more then 2 years ago. Back when many people where using it, including Roy Williams and Heath Evans, who where both openly promoting it in the media. Former Oakland head coach Hue Jackson was involved with the company aswell. I don`t think the spray was illegal intially, until the league put a stop to it. Mitch Ross lost a lot of clients at that point. This is just a PR stunt by Mitch Ross, who is the owner of SWAT, trying to promote his business.

And Grantland has never written anything worth reading.

Edited by J-E-T-S-L-O-L, 03 February 2013 - 09:57 AM.


#5 BuffaloBill

BuffaloBill

    Get Well Jim K

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,552 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

With Armstrongs not so shocking admission you do have to wonder if there are any pro athletes free of PED use.  There is too much money and pressure for these guys to at least not consider it.

#6 J-E-T-S-L-O-L

J-E-T-S-L-O-L

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

Former Patriot Heath Evans quote from 2011, the same time Ray Lewis was linked to it:

"It could be [that] one day Roger Goodell says, 'You can't take this stuff,' " Evans said. "When they add [deer antler] to the banned list, I won't take it anymore. Until the NFL adds it to the banned substance list, I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't take it."
Evans said he is confident he won't test positive for the substance Vobora tested positive for using. "If you do steroids, you're going to put on 20 pounds of muscle," he said. "I can't do that. If I test positive, Mitch and I are going to have a misunderstanding."

#7 Punch

Punch

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,955 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostJ-E-T-S-L-O-L, on 03 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

And Grantland has never written anything worth reading.

Thank god you set us straight. I can't wait to read your next brilliant missive rather than today's most coherent and literate sports writing. How can I subscribe?

#8 jboyst62

jboyst62

    Mr. Beerball.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,660 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:17 AM

The guy is not breaking any new ground here.  Rehashing it, polishing it up from the dusty shape it was in after being in the closet for such a long time.  The last major kick of performance enhancing substances was in 96-97 when creatine went main stream and there were possible deaths linked to it.  Then SI did many huge stories on it - SI was still relevant then.  ESPN was not touching it with a 20' pole, but even they brought it up when the MSU wrestler died.  It came...and it went.

At the end of the day none of us are that stupid to not believe they are not all using.  I have known many lower level, mid level and upper level athletes and I cannot remember a single one of them not using some type of performance enhancer.  From guys I went to HS with, to those that I knew in college and those that went on to the pro's - everyone does it.  It does not justify it, though, when they get caught.  Which creates the moral of the story - don't get caught!

View PostJ-E-T-S-L-O-L, on 03 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

And Grantland has never written anything worth reading.
Well, I enjoyed the article

#9 Doc

Doc

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,985 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

They're all at least on HGH, because there is no test for it.  But I still don't believe that IGF-1 is absorbed sublingually in any appreciable amount to affect performance.

#10 jboyst62

jboyst62

    Mr. Beerball.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,660 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:31 AM

Just curious if you know much about ana

View PostDoc, on 03 February 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

They're all at least on HGH, because there is no test for it.  But I still don't believe that IGF-1 is absorbed sublingually in any appreciable amount to affect performance.
just curious if you know much about anabolic steroids?  I have never used them, but know many who have.  One cycle is no more then 6 to 8 weeks, and can be done quite easily without staying in your system.  One cycle every year or two is the most effective way to use the steroids in the off season - and during this time players are hardly tested, especially in college.

#11 todzilla

todzilla

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 434 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostJ-E-T-S-L-O-L, on 03 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Ray Lewis got the antler spray more then 2 years ago. Back when many people where using it, including Roy Williams and Heath Evans, who where both openly promoting it in the media. Former Oakland head coach Hue Jackson was involved with the company aswell. I don`t think the spray was illegal intially, until the league put a stop to it. Mitch Ross lost a lot of clients at that point. This is just a PR stunt by Mitch Ross, who is the owner of SWAT, trying to promote his business.

And Grantland has never written anything worth reading.
How could you determine that without reading everything ever written there?  Weird.  I thought it was a very good read, as is most stuff on that site. Bill Barnwell is worth the price of admission alone (which is of course, free). Simmons makes some great points about the media and their hands off approach to PED speculation.

#12 J-E-T-S-L-O-L

J-E-T-S-L-O-L

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostPunch, on 03 February 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Thank god you set us straight. I can't wait to read your next brilliant missive rather than today's most coherent and literate sports writing. How can I subscribe?
You may got me. I haven`t read much from that website. But the things I`ve read, atleast Barnwell have comed across as a hater to me. And that`s why I don`t use that website.

This is the most recent article I remember:

http://www.grantland...d-their-defense

He compares Joe Flacco to HOFs, like Steve Young and John Elway. And just because Matt Ryan happened to be great in the model he uses, he`s included. Why not post the results of your research, or atleast include the results of someone a little more comparable, like Eli Manning, Philip Rivers or Ben Roethlisberger. You know other QBs that had a defense, who are not yet in the HOF. If they had similar results, which they did, Flacco wouldn`t look so bad. I actually dublicated his research at the time, and atleast Ben Roethlisberger was worse of then Flacco. Why wasn't that included? Because it would destroy the credibiltiy of the article, that`s why.

#13 Doc

Doc

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,985 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:47 AM

View Postjboyst62, on 03 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Just curious if you know much about anabolic steroids?  I have never used them, but know many who have.  One cycle is no more then 6 to 8 weeks, and can be done quite easily without staying in your system.  One cycle every year or two is the most effective way to use the steroids in the off season - and during this time players are hardly tested, especially in college.
I don't know much about steroid cycles, stacking, testing, etc.  I do know there are ways around testing and that more than a few players do them.  That's why I said at least they're doing HGH.

#14 RuntheDamnBall

RuntheDamnBall

    Go Bills

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,761 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

View Posttodzilla, on 03 February 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

How could you determine that without reading everything ever written there?  Weird.  I thought it was a very good read, as is most stuff on that site. Bill Barnwell is worth the price of admission alone (which is of course, free). Simmons makes some great points about the media and their hands off approach to PED speculation.
The thing I don't really care for about Simmons is that if you were to turn this around and asked him about his beloved Patriots or Red Sox (known championship juicers, at least where the Sox are concerned) and said, "well, you've gotta ask the question," he'll get all bent out of shape.  He has the right idea but his motive (discrediting the "leader" of the team that knocked the Pats out) is suspect, when the likely reality is that every team has players using performance enhancers.

I also still frankly don't give a damn if these guys who are taking a beating day in, day out, are also taking something that helps them to heal faster.  Should be a difference in the NFL eye between drugs that help build muscle mass and drugs that promote faster healing of injuries, especially if a doctor could administer them.

#15 first_and_ten

first_and_ten

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,173 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

View Postmrags, on 03 February 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

If your referring to roids, it can't be said until he comes out and admits it or fails a test.

I dare say that (without any knowledge or proof) that over 90% of the league (leaving out the kickers) are on roids.

As far as I know, what he's accused of taking is HGH, which is not a steroid. It's a chemical hormone

#16 Doc

Doc

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,985 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostRuntheDamnBall, on 03 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

The thing I don't really care for about Simmons is that if you were to turn this around and asked him about his beloved Patriots or Red Sox (known championship juicers, at least where the Sox are concerned) and said, "well, you've gotta ask the question," he'll get all bent out of shape.  He has the right idea but his motive (discrediting the "leader" of the team that knocked the Pats out) is suspect, when the likely reality is that every team has players using performance enhancers.
The Pats are known juicers as well.  Rodney got busted for HGH and obviously wasn't alone, given the number of older players they had who suddenly found the fountain of youth while there.

And Simmons claims that AP was clean when rehabbing.  And that's based on what?  A gut feeling?  Yes, real objective there.

#17 Bronc24

Bronc24

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,959 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostRuntheDamnBall, on 03 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:


The thing I don't really care for about Simmons is that if you were to turn this around and asked him about his beloved Patriots or Red Sox (known championship juicers, at least where the Sox are concerned) and said, "well, you've gotta ask the question," he'll get all bent out of shape.  He has the right idea but his motive (discrediting the "leader" of the team that knocked the Pats out) is suspect, when the likely reality is that every team has players using performance enhancers.

I also still frankly don't give a damn if these guys who are taking a beating day in, day out, are also taking something that helps them to heal faster.  Should be a difference in the NFL eye between drugs that help build muscle mass and drugs that promote faster healing of injuries, especially if a doctor could administer them.

My take as well, hence my questioning the timing of it all (beyond the obvious retirement, Superbowl connections). If Lewis was on the Patriots, no way that article is written.

View PostJ-E-T-S-L-O-L, on 03 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Ray Lewis got the antler spray more then 2 years ago. Back when many people where using it, including Roy Williams and Heath Evans, who where both openly promoting it in the media. Former Oakland head coach Hue Jackson was involved with the company aswell. I don`t think the spray was illegal intially, until the league put a stop to it. Mitch Ross lost a lot of clients at that point. This is just a PR stunt by Mitch Ross, who is the owner of SWAT, trying to promote his business.

And Grantland has never written anything worth reading.

View PostJ-E-T-S-L-O-L, on 03 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:


You may got me. I haven`t read much from that website. But the things I`ve read, atleast Barnwell have comed across as a hater to me. And that`s why I don`t use that website.

This is the most recent article I remember:

http://www.grantland...d-their-defense

He compares Joe Flacco to HOFs, like Steve Young and John Elway. And just because Matt Ryan happened to be great in the model he uses, he`s included. Why not post the results of your research, or atleast include the results of someone a little more comparable, like Eli Manning, Philip Rivers or Ben Roethlisberger. You know other QBs that had a defense, who are not yet in the HOF. If they had similar results, which they did, Flacco wouldn`t look so bad. I actually dublicated his research at the time, and atleast Ben Roethlisberger was worse of then Flacco. Why wasn't that included? Because it would destroy the credibiltiy of the article, that`s why.

For something not worth reading, you seemed to take a lot of interest in what Barnwell wrote. I enjoy the site, despite Simmons' fawning over all things Boston.

View PostDoc, on 03 February 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:


The Pats are known juicers as well.  Rodney got busted for HGH and obviously wasn't alone, given the number of older players they had who suddenly found the fountain of youth while there.

And Simmons claims that AP was clean when rehabbing.  And that's based on what?  A gut feeling?  Yes, real objective there.

Of course AP was clean. He plays in the NFC.

#18 OvrOfficiousJerk

OvrOfficiousJerk

    Practice Squad

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 184 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostDoc, on 03 February 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:


The Pats are known juicers as well.  Rodney got busted for HGH and obviously wasn't alone, given the number of older players they had who suddenly found the fountain of youth while there.

And Simmons claims that AP was clean when rehabbing.  And that's based on what?  A gut feeling?  Yes, real objective there.

He starts off his article w a quote from Dr James Andrews saying that ADs knee was basically that of a newborn, ie Peterson has some insane genetic qualities (and also is a lot younger than Ray Lewis). Throw in the fact that his rehab time wasnt shortened to the same proportion that Lewis was.  I mean Simmons is still being subjective but the chances that Peterson is clean are relatively high

View PostRuntheDamnBall, on 03 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:


The thing I don't really care for about Simmons is that if you were to turn this around and asked him about his beloved Patriots or Red Sox (known championship juicers, at least where the Sox are concerned) and said, "well, you've gotta ask the question," he'll get all bent out of shape.  He has the right idea but his motive (discrediting the "leader" of the team that knocked the Pats out) is suspect, when the likely reality is that every team has players using performance enhancers.

At the same time though he does go out of his way to complement Celtic-killers Lebron and Kobe. As much as he is a homer sometimes - I agree that this article is not written if Lewis is a Patriot - he can be surprisingly objective

#19 Doc

Doc

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,985 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:18 AM

View PostOvrOfficiousJerk, on 03 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

He starts off his article w a quote from Dr James Andrews saying that ADs knee was basically that of a newborn, ie Peterson has some insane genetic qualities (and also is a lot younger than Ray Lewis). Throw in the fact that his rehab time wasnt shortened to the same proportion that Lewis was.  I mean Simmons is still being subjective but the chances that Peterson is clean are relatively high
I don't doubt that he has a pristine knee, but his rehab was just 8-9 months, which is pretty quick for an ACL.  And with the money on the line for players and teams, and the fact that HGH isn't tested for, I'd say the chances are higher that he took them than not.

#20 San Jose Bills Fan

San Jose Bills Fan

    San Jose Bills Fan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,764 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostJ-E-T-S-L-O-L, on 03 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

And Grantland has never written anything worth reading.

I'm glad you re-visited and qualified your comment because it was ridiculous.