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Why the final Niners play was definitely NOT holding


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#1 dave mcbride

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:59 PM

http://www.nfl.com/v...ay-s-last-stand

Watch it again. In particular, watch where Crabtree is when the ball is released. He's at the 1 - four yards from the LOS. Given the five yard rule, Smith was basically within in his rights. More importantly, after the ball is released, the call - assuming you're going to make one -- BY DEFINITION has to be interference, not defensive holding. (You don't see this much because rarely will you see a pass released so quickly. Great defensive call by the Ravens there). And, since it could only be interference, there was no call to make because it was clearly and obviously uncatchable, landing out of bounds and far from any potential receiver even if there had been no contact. It was, after all, a desperation heave. Case closed. And no, I'm not a Ravens fan. Just a relatively impartial observer.

Edited by dave mcbride, 04 February 2013 - 08:01 PM.


#2 Jack Straw

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:19 PM

That ball wasn't uncatchable.  Was about one step away from being able to make a play on it.

#3 fan_in_tx

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

Take a look at the Safety where the punter ran out of the endzone. There was holding all over the place linemen were tackled. What's the point? Few seconds maybe, maybe someone hits the punter and causes a fumble. Point is throw the flag when you are suppose to throw the flag.

#4 Ozymandius

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:30 PM

View Postfan_in_tx, on 04 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Take a look at the Safety where the punter ran out of the endzone. There was holding all over the place linemen were tackled. What's the point? Few seconds maybe, maybe someone hits the punter and causes a fumble. Point is throw the flag when you are suppose to throw the flag.

How would a flag have helped the 49ers?  A flag would not have put time back on the clock.  Also a hold in the end zone is a safety = same result.

The Ravens were smart.  In that situation, they recognized they could hold with impunity and did so accordingly.

#5 Preston Ridlehuber

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:31 PM

View Postfan_in_tx, on 04 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Take a look at the Safety where the punter ran out of the endzone. There was holding all over the place linemen were tackled. What's the point? Few seconds maybe, maybe someone hits the punter and causes a fumble. Point is throw the flag when you are suppose to throw the flag.

A holding call on the safety was moot. A flag would have netted the same result. In fact the lineman were instructed by their coach to hold cause it would have had same result and actually allowed more time for punter to waste.

That being said, officiating is a joke in the NFL.

#6 JPS

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

Eric Mangini said it was a borderline hold, but the LB on the other side mauled Delany Walker and that shoulda been called.  I'm sure conspiracy theories abound in the Bay area.  Bottom line is: when the QB is under duress, I hate to see a call bail him out of a bad decision/throw. So I'm okay with it.

#7 CarolinaBill

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

What about the blatant helmet to helmet hit on the previous play. No unecessary roughness? no flag for that?

The game was great, and was about to go down in history until the refs decided to turn their collective heads and give Ray Lewis a going away present. A terrible end to an exciting game.

#8 John in Jax

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:04 PM

Nice try by the OP....no really, nice try. But the 5-yard CHUCK rule is just that....DBs can CHUCK a receiver within 5 yards of the LOS, NOT HOLD THEM! According to the rulebook, holding is illegal anywhere on the field.

I also disagree with your premise that the ball was uncatchable (in bounds). Many a "circus catch" has been made with the ball thrown in that exact spot. A few years ago I recall a Steeler (in SB vs. Cardinals) catching a game-winning TD in a similar situation.  Although in that case, I still contend that he never got his second toe down, because his whole body was on the way UP.

#9 Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:50 PM

I also thought on that 4th down play there should have been a delay of game.  I was watching the clock and could swear it hit zero before ball was snapped.

#10 JR in Pittsburgh

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:55 PM

View Postfan_in_tx, on 04 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Take a look at the Safety where the punter ran out of the endzone. There was holding all over the place linemen were tackled. What's the point? Few seconds maybe, maybe someone hits the punter and causes a fumble. Point is throw the flag when you are suppose to throw the flag.

They were probably instructed to hold. I am surprised more guys didn't hold. Penalty was same as safety.

On final offensive play, you can't call holding.

Overall, thought the refs did an outstanding job. One of the best called games I have seen all year.

#11 dave mcbride

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:57 PM

View PostJohn in Jax, on 04 February 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Nice try by the OP....no really, nice try. But the 5-yard CHUCK rule is just that....DBs can CHUCK a receiver within 5 yards of the LOS, NOT HOLD THEM! According to the rulebook, holding is illegal anywhere on the field.

I also disagree with your premise that the ball was uncatchable (in bounds). Many a "circus catch" has been made with the ball thrown in that exact spot. A few years ago I recall a Steeler (in SB vs. Cardinals) catching a game-winning TD in a similar situation.  Although in that case, I still contend that he never got his second toe down, because his whole body was on the way UP.
The holding (such as it was) occurred after the ball was released, which is interference. From the 5 to the 1, they were each battling each other, with Crabtree clearly pushing off. For anyone who thinks that ball was catchable, watch it again. If "catchable" mains that the greatest catch in super bowl history is made, then yes, it was catchable. Seriously, though - please. Kaepernick released the ball even before Crabtree had reached the end zone, and when Kaepernick released it Crabtree was over ten yards from where the ball actually landed (out of bounds near the right corner).  The laws of physics would have to be pretty pliable for that ball to be catchable by a human.

Edited by dave mcbride, 04 February 2013 - 10:00 PM.


#12 ExiledInIllinois

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

View Postfan_in_tx, on 04 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Take a look at the Safety where the punter ran out of the endzone. There was holding all over the place linemen were tackled. What's the point? Few seconds maybe, maybe someone hits the punter and causes a fumble. Point is throw the flag when you are suppose to throw the flag.

BINGO!!!

This was the most ridculous "push" ever by the refs!

The league still has no answer to why the flages were not thrown on that play!

View Postdave mcbride, on 04 February 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

The holding (such as it was) occurred after the ball was released, which is interference. From the 5 to the 1, they were each battling each other, with Crabtree clearly pushing off. For anyone who thinks that ball was catchable, watch it again. If "catchable" mains that the greatest catch in super bowl history is made, then yes, it was catchable. Seriously, though - please. Kaepernick released the ball even before Crabtree had reached the end zone, and when Kaepernick released it Crabtree was over ten yards from where the ball actually landed (out of bounds near the right corner).  The laws of physics would have to be pretty pliable for that ball to be catchable by a human.

I don't think the term "catchable" applies anymore. ?? Didn't they strike that interpretation out of the rule book many moons ago?

View PostJR In Ann Arbor, on 04 February 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

They were probably instructed to hold. I am surprised more guys didn't hold. Penalty was same as safety.

On final offensive play, you can't call holding.

Overall, thought the refs did an outstanding job. One of the best called games I have seen all year.

Wow.  I saw it totally different... One of the worst called games... The head ref seemed very nervous.  Terrible spot on a critical play, made up PI call.

Edited by ExiledInIllinois, 04 February 2013 - 10:04 PM.


#13 dave mcbride

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

View PostExiledInIllinois, on 04 February 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

BINGO!!!

This was the most ridculous "push" ever by the refs!

The league still has no answer to why the flages were not thrown on that play!

???

Throwing a flag would have been IRRELEVANT in the end zone. The result would have been a safety, which occurred anyway. Throwing a flag would not have speeded up the play by one second because the play doesn't stop until someone is either tackled or runs out of bounds. Jim Harbaugh is full of cr*p to be complaining about that one. The complaint defies logic.

#14 marauderswr80

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

The defender held crabtree pushed off...bad throw...let the guys play football...

Good no call

#15 dave mcbride

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:09 PM

View PostExiledInIllinois, on 04 February 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

BINGO!!!

This was the most ridculous "push" ever by the refs!

The league still has no answer to why the flages were not thrown on that play!



I don't think the term "catchable" applies anymore. ?? Didn't they strike that interpretation out of the rule book many moons ago?



The catchable rule still applies. They've never gotten rid of it.

#16 ExiledInIllinois

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:10 PM

Then there is the running into the kicker that should had been roughing and a 15 w/automatic first down.  Akers foot was still in the air... Then he go hurt and his kickoffs wer noticably shorter.

THEN it may come down to a free kick fair catch?  LoL... Now way Akers could reach the endzone anymore!  To start the game he was kicking it 8 yards deep from his 35.  If the Ravens punter would have shanked the final kicker... No way Akers makes a free, teed FG from even his 45!!!

Give the MVP to the Ravens' punter!!!

#17 gomper

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:12 PM

BS he mugged him. You cant square a WR then hold him. If it was Stevie I cant begin to imagine the outrage.

#18 dave mcbride

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostExiledInIllinois, on 04 February 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Then there is the running into the kicker that should had been roughing and a 15 w/automatic first down.  Akers foot was still in the air... Then he go hurt and his kickoffs wer noticably shorter.

THEN it may come down to a free kick fair catch?  LoL... Now way Akers could reach the endzone anymore!  To start the game he was kicking it 8 yards deep from his 35.  If the Ravens punter would have shanked the final kicker... No way Akers makes a free, teed FG from even his 45!!!

Give the MVP to the Ravens' punter!!!

Um, that was running into the kicker. Roughing the kicker is when a defender plows into him while upright and with malicious intent him when trying to block the kick. It's not even debatable, really, despite what the announcers said.

#19 ExiledInIllinois

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:13 PM

That no holding calls on the Ravens on the safety play cost them almost 10 seconds.  They may have got a Hail Mary off after the free kick.  The game can not end on a defensive penalty if they heave it and get close!

View Postdave mcbride, on 04 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Um, that was running into the kicker. Roughing the kicker is when a defender plows into him while upright and with malicious intent him when trying to block the kick. It's not even debatable, really, despite what the announcers said.

Nope.

#20 JPS

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

View Postgomper, on 04 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

BS he mugged him. You cant square a WR then hold him. If it was Stevie I cant begin to imagine the outrage.
Crabtree ran right up in his grill. Looked like the WR initiated the contact to me. He shoulda taken it upfield earlier.