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Bills Defense (02/28/13)


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#1 The Big Cat

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

With Barnett, McGee, Wilson and Kelsay gone, the Bills have now parted ways with former captains and chief contributors/defensive leaders from the past half-decade. I started this thread because as I look at where we are RIGHT NOW, it's tough to determine where leadership will come from.

More importantly to the re-build, it's tough to determine what the Bills' identity will be--something that's alluded them since...2004, I guess?

Right now the Bills have a whopping 21 defensive players under contract for next season. Take a look at who we got and let me know what you think, because I think it's going to be a tough year for this unit:

Corner Backs (5)
  • Ron Brooks
  • Crezdon Butler
  • Justin Rogers
  • Aaron Williams
  • Stephon Gilmore (though he's listed as a DB on bb.com)

Defensive Backs (3)
  • TJ Heath
  • Mana Silva
  • Da'Norris Searcy

Defensive Ends (2)
  • Mark Anderson
  • Mario Williams
Defensive Tackles (5)
  • Alex Carrington
  • Marcell Dareus
  • Jay Ross
  • Torell Troup
  • Kyle Williams
Linebackers (6)
  • Kelvin Sheppard
  • Nigel Bradham
  • Greg Lloyd
  • Arthur Moats
  • Kirk Morrison
  • Chris White


#2 C.Biscuit97

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:34 AM

View PosttaC giB ehT, on 28 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

With Barnett, McGee, Wilson and Kelsay gone, the Bills have now parted ways with former captains and chief contributors/defensive leaders from the past half-decade. I started this thread because as I look at where we are RIGHT NOW, it's tough to determine where leadership will come from.

More importantly to the re-build, it's tough to determine what the Bills' identity will be--something that's alluded them since...2004, I guess?

Right now the Bills have a whopping 21 defensive players under contract for next season. Take a look at who we got and let me know what you think, because I think it's going to be a tough year for this unit:

Corner Backs (5)
  • Ron Brooks

  • Crezdon Butler

  • Justin Rogers

  • Aaron Williams

  • Stephon Gilmore (though he's listed as a DB on bb.com)
Defensive Backs (3)
  • TJ Heath

  • Mana Silva

  • Da'Norris Searcy
Defensive Ends (2)
  • Mark Anderson

  • Mario Williams
Defensive Tackles (5)
  • Alex Carrington

  • Marcell Dareus

  • Jay Ross

  • Torell Troup

  • Kyle Williams
Linebackers (6)
  • Kelvin Sheppard

  • Nigel Bradham

  • Greg Lloyd

  • Arthur Moats

  • Kirk Morrison

  • Chris White

It's been a tough year for the defense for the last decade minus 2 years.  I still see a lot of talent that is underperforming.  Wanny's schemes were wack but still, guys didn't earn their contracts.  The best thing we can hope for is an attitude change.  There was no attitude last year.  Any improvement in this category and we could see an improvement on the field.  After last year, it would be hard not to.

#3 The Big Cat

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:43 AM

View PostC.Biscuit97, on 28 February 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:


It's been a tough year for the defense for the last decade minus 2 years.  I still see a lot of talent that is underperforming.  Wanny's schemes were wack but still, guys didn't earn their contracts.  The best thing we can hope for is an attitude change.  There was no attitude last year.  Any improvement in this category and we could see an improvement on the field.  After last year, it would be hard not to.

From an inside source: mentality in the locker room was they weren't going anywhere with last year's coaches. Perhaps that will all change. After all, what is the talent deviation from team to team, really.

#4 billsfanmiami(oh)

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

Yikes. On paper we look pretty thin. What a difference a year makes. Last year it looked like the LB's were a little weak as a group, but the D line and DB's looked to have a solid mix of talent and depth. Right now it looks like there's quite a few holes to fill. As we saw last year, what you have on paper doesn't necessarily mean a lot and maybe the very different scheme will lead to very different results. It will be an interesting FA period and draft. At the surface looks like there are a lot of holes to fill throughout the entire roster.

#5 RyanC883

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PosttaC giB ehT, on 28 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

With Barnett, McGee, Wilson and Kelsay gone, the Bills have now parted ways with former captains and chief contributors/defensive leaders from the past half-decade. I started this thread because as I look at where we are RIGHT NOW, it's tough to determine where leadership will come from.

More importantly to the re-build, it's tough to determine what the Bills' identity will be--something that's alluded them since...2004, I guess?

Right now the Bills have a whopping 21 defensive players under contract for next season. Take a look at who we got and let me know what you think, because I think it's going to be a tough year for this unit:

Corner Backs (5)
  • Ron Brooks

  • Crezdon Butler

  • Justin Rogers

  • Aaron Williams

  • Stephon Gilmore (though he's listed as a DB on bb.com)
Defensive Backs (3)
  • TJ Heath

  • Mana Silva

  • Da'Norris Searcy
Defensive Ends (2)
  • Mark Anderson

  • Mario Williams
Defensive Tackles (5)
  • Alex Carrington

  • Marcell Dareus

  • Jay Ross

  • Torell Troup

  • Kyle Williams
Linebackers (6)
  • Kelvin Sheppard

  • Nigel Bradham

  • Greg Lloyd

  • Arthur Moats

  • Kirk Morrison

  • Chris White


A few thoughts:

First, thanks for posting this.

1) with all the cutting of "dead weight" how is Troupe still on the team?!  Low cost?

2)  We have Greg Lloyd at LB!!!  (I posted that as a joke, but then googled it and he is actually the son of the Greg Lloyd.  http://en.wikipedia....Greg_Lloyd,_Jr.)

3)  I think we solve two of the problems at OLB/CB, or DB in FA by getting: Kuger (sp) from Balt, CB Lewis from PIT, and/or Landry from NYJ.  Perhaps also Bart Scott from the Jets for 1-2 years.  And we sign/tag Byrd.

4)  I think we draft a OLB/DE either in the first round (Dion Jordan), or second-third round (Hunt, SMU).

There do appear to be a lot of holes, but by draft day the picture will be much clearer.  I've given up on even doing a mock draft until I know what we get in FA.

Edited by RyanC883, 28 February 2013 - 09:50 AM.


#6 The Big Cat

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:54 AM

View PostRyanC883, on 28 February 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

A few thoughts:

First, thanks for posting this.

1) with all the cutting of "dead weight" how is Troupe still on the team?!  Low cost?

2)  We have Greg Lloyd at LB!!!  (I posted that as a joke, but then googled it and he is actually the son of the Greg Lloyd.  http://en.wikipedia....Greg_Lloyd,_Jr.)

3)  I think we solve two of the problems at OLB/CB, or DB in FA by getting: Kuger (sp) from Balt, CB Lewis from PIT, and/or Landry from NYJ.  Perhaps also Bart Scott from the Jets for 1-2 years.  And we sign/tag Byrd.

4)  I think we draft a OLB/DE either in the first round (Dion Jordan), or second-third round (Hunt, SMU).

There do appear to be a lot of holes, but by draft day the picture will be much clearer.  I've given up on even doing a mock draft until I know what we get in FA.

If having all these names in one place proves one thing it's that we can expect some activity in FA that WILL inform who we draft when. So yes, as is always the case, putting together "my" mock before FA begins is a pointless worthless waste of time.



That said, I'm pretty sure we'll draft Barkely. :devil:

#7 ALF

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:06 AM

Pettine might bring in a FA who knows his system from the Jets ,March 12

#8 BillsVet

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:08 AM

The leadership question isn't the biggest one, it's who plays on opening day.  They have 2 DE's signed, the DT's are OK, but coming off a season where they contributed to a 31st ranking versus the run.  The LB group features a mere 2 guys who have experience at the position, they have 2 safeties with NFL experience provided Byrd is retained.  And, the GM just stated McKelvin is the starter opposite 2nd year man Gilmore.  Wow.

I wouldn't just say the roster has holes.  It's more like the after-effect of a B-52 strike.

#9 BringBackFergy

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

View PosttaC giB ehT, on 28 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

With Barnett, McGee, Wilson and Kelsay gone, the Bills have now parted ways with former captains and chief contributors/defensive leaders from the past half-decade. I started this thread because as I look at where we are RIGHT NOW, it's tough to determine where leadership will come from.

More importantly to the re-build, it's tough to determine what the Bills' identity will be--something that's alluded them since...2004, I guess?

Right now the Bills have a whopping 21 defensive players under contract for next season. Take a look at who we got and let me know what you think, because I think it's going to be a tough year for this unit:

Corner Backs (5)
  • Ron Brooks

  • Crezdon Butler

  • Justin Rogers

  • Aaron Williams

  • Stephon Gilmore (though he's listed as a DB on bb.com)
Defensive Backs (3)
  • TJ Heath

  • Mana Silva

  • Da'Norris Searcy
Defensive Ends (2)
  • Mark Anderson

  • Mario Williams
Defensive Tackles (5)
  • Alex Carrington

  • Marcell Dareus

  • Jay Ross

  • Torell Troup

  • Kyle Williams
Linebackers (6)
  • Kelvin Sheppard

  • Nigel Bradham

  • Greg Lloyd

  • Arthur Moats

  • Kirk Morrison

  • Chris White
Hey Cat -

I think you made my case as to why I don't want the 8th pick. You can get solid D Line talent and LB talent in the second and third rounds this year. Taking a QB at 8 this year or even WR Patterson is a bandaid on a blistering sore that needs alot of work.

My current position (subject to change...lol): Trade away the 8th pick to San Fran for their first round pick (31), and their two second round picks. We would then have a pick at 31, 41, and two second round picks from SF. Word is they want to get Revis but if you dangle a carrot in front of Harbaugh he may prefer Milliner at #8 or another top CB (which he will never get at pick 31).

This is not the year to reach or play games with a draft pick...we don't have that luxury (for instance, what if Ansah turns out to be a bust)...you try and accumulate picks and hope you hit on 50% of them. Our defense could be beefed up with some young, vicious talent if we had 4 picks in the first two rounds rather than just two. Trade down with the Niners.

#10 The Big Cat

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

View PostBringBackFergy, on 28 February 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Hey Cat -

I think you made my case as to why I don't want the 8th pick. You can get solid D Line talent and LB talent in the second and third rounds this year. Taking a QB at 8 this year or even WR Patterson is a bandaid on a blistering sore that needs alot of work.

My current position (subject to change...lol): Trade away the 8th pick to San Fran for their first round pick (31), and their two second round picks. We would then have a pick at 31, 41, and two second round picks from SF. Word is they want to get Revis but if you dangle a carrot in front of Harbaugh he may prefer Milliner at #8 or another top CB (which he will never get at pick 31).

This is not the year to reach or play games with a draft pick...we don't have that luxury (for instance, what if Ansah turns out to be a bust)...you try and accumulate picks and hope you hit on 50% of them. Our defense could be beefed up with some young, vicious talent if we had 4 picks in the first two rounds rather than just two. Trade down with the Niners.

I think this is a call best made after seeing what "wow" factors remain, and which ones don't, by the time the 8th pick rolls around.

#11 bobobonators

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

I really don't see it as badly as some.  Safety needs to be addressed and LB needs to be addressed - those are the most pressing IMO.

CB is optional though desirable (we have high draft picks that are still a bit unproven - williams/mckelvin).

We have a lot of cap room and its not beyond the realm of possibility to address many of these needs this offseason. Franchise Byrd, Sign a safety and LB in FA.  Draft QB, WR, LB first 3 rds and most holes/needs are addressed for the time being at least.

Question is, can we retain levitre too...

#12 JPS

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

Well, if the last group provided leadership, it wasn't working.  I don't think the Bills are going to get leadership from a guy up in the press box. They need better players. Period. Name 1 guy on that defense who could take another player to task for not doing his job...

They just need better players.

#13 ALF

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

S. Merriman is a good leader, but only at a much lower contract due to being injury prone.

#14 Rob's House

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:18 AM

View Postbobobonators, on 28 February 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I really don't see it as badly as some.  Safety needs to be addressed and LB needs to be addressed - those are the most pressing IMO.

CB is optional though desirable (we have high draft picks that are still a bit unproven - williams/mckelvin).

We have a lot of cap room and its not beyond the realm of possibility to address many of these needs this offseason. Franchise Byrd, Sign a safety and LB in FA.  Draft QB, WR, LB first 3 rds and most holes/needs are addressed for the time being at least.

Question is, can we retain levitre too...
This is kind of what I was thinking. It's a good bet Byrd will be back, in which case the starting line-up doesn't look so bad. I like Ron Brooks at CB and have high hopes for Searcy/A Williams at S, so perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but add a solid starting LB, maybe a S, and a few depth players and I feel pretty good about this unit.

Edited by Rob's House, 28 February 2013 - 11:20 AM.


#15 K-9

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:22 AM

Looks worse than I thought. Instead of 5 players away from a good defense, it looks like we're more like 7 players away. Mario, Dareus, and Kyle up front with Gilmore and Byrd in the backfield. Those are the only "good" players I see in the bunch to this point. Can someone surprise? I hope so. But nobody else has proved a damn thing. I might give you Mark Anderson but he's coming off injury.

Good luck Mr. Pettine. You are gonna need it with this bunch.

GO BILLS!!!

#16 The Big Cat

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

View PostRob, on 28 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

This is kind of what I was thinking. It's a good bet Byrd will be back, in which case the starting line-up doesn't look so bad. I like Ron Brooks at CB and have high hopes for Searcy/A Williams at S, so perhaps I'm overly optimistic, but add a solid starting LB, maybe a S, and a few depth players and I feel pretty good about this unit.

I don't think this list eliminates room for optimism. However, one must be optimistic to forsee success with this roster, as is.

I also think we'll have Byrd back, or at least Landry, or both. But, this was to give you an idea for where we are NOW because at OBD, FA'S--ours and otherwise--are being evaluated accordingly.

View PostBringBackFergy, on 28 February 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Hey Cat -

I think you made my case as to why I don't want the 8th pick. You can get solid D Line talent and LB talent in the second and third rounds this year. Taking a QB at 8 this year or even WR Patterson is a bandaid on a blistering sore that needs alot of work.

My current position (subject to change...lol): Trade away the 8th pick to San Fran for their first round pick (31), and their two second round picks. We would then have a pick at 31, 41, and two second round picks from SF. Word is they want to get Revis but if you dangle a carrot in front of Harbaugh he may prefer Milliner at #8 or another top CB (which he will never get at pick 31).

This is not the year to reach or play games with a draft pick...we don't have that luxury (for instance, what if Ansah turns out to be a bust)...you try and accumulate picks and hope you hit on 50% of them. Our defense could be beefed up with some young, vicious talent if we had 4 picks in the first two rounds rather than just two. Trade down with the Niners.

http://twitter.com/A...151808982298624

#17 SUNTANBILLSFAN

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

Why not trade for Reevis cut fitz sign Byrd, Bart scott draft a future star in J Jones  and possibly Landry. We are opening up a lot of cap room here and I believe we are set to be quite surprised come free agency

#18 peterpan

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

Not bad for three years of Nix's rebuilding.

#19 Chandler#81

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

I'm not concerned. We hired a DC with exceptional results in the League. He, his staff and HC evaluated the 31st ranked D -and we're well versed about them from personal experience and threw half of it in the trash -and counting.

Will there be an entirely new Defense with new internal leaders evolving this year?

You betcha!

#20 Dr. Trooth

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:35 PM

The needs on defense are clear.  Bills need five new starters on defense.

1 LCB
1 NT ( A real one... Brandon Williams ?)
1 OLB
1 ILB
1 FS