60 replies to this topic

[unpaid_bills34]

We need a stud linebacker better to draft or go after top free agent.  Another area we struggled and historically pretty good special teams a lot of our good players came off STs

[ChevyVanMiller]

Welcome to the board. I think the team will do both - they'll draft a LB in the first 3 Rds and grab a starter in FA.

I can't ever remember one position being so depleted on the roster. The fact that they released Barnett clearly put them in a position to overhaul their LBs to fit the new defensive scheme.

Edited by ChevyVanMiller, 02 March 2013 - 10:56 AM.

[unpaid_bills34]

Releasing Barnett was a head scratcher guess his injury was worse than reported.  I love Moats and Bradham but they have long way to go

[paupmvp1995]

unpaid_bills34, on 02 March 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Releasing Barnett was a head scratcher guess his injury was worse than reported.  I love Moats and Bradham but they have long way to go

Did you actually watch the Bills defense play at all last year?  Barnett was terrible.  He was always out of position and lost his speed to cover any RB's or TE's in pass coverage.  He is done as a starter in the NFL and probably won't be long for the league period.  He had a productive career, but he hit the wall real fast last year.  Bradham has some potential if he can make a sizable jump this year.  But my god, what is there to love about Moats' game?  We need to go hard after Ellerbee in free agency and than draft at least one if not two LB's-one inside and one outside.

[LVBillsBackr]

unpaid_bills34, on 02 March 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Releasing Barnett was a head scratcher guess his injury was worse than reported.  I love Moats and Bradham but they have long way to go

Barnett is on the wrong side of 30 and was getting torched in coverage last yr. He was a liability in coverage and they watched "tape" this offseason and didn't take em long to see it. I do agree with you though we gotta get our hands on a few LB's

[biggerdaddynj]

unpaid_bills34, on 02 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

We need a stud linebacker better to draft or go after top free agent.  Another area we struggled and historically pretty good special teams a lot of our good players came off STs

Need one SOLID free agent signing who fits Pettine's scheme (not an old, slow Bart Scott--only sign him on the cheap and just expect him to serve as a "player-coach", if you will).  Then in the draft I hope to God we go LB at 8 (Jarvis Jones if he's there is worth the risk--"Von Miller-lite"),or Dion Jordan (I think he will be a freak and is SO versatile) or Ogletree (there is a dearth of ILBs and he is the only one worthy of a top 10 pick), ASSUMING he made it through the interview and they feel he's safe).  Then we grab another later (3-4) and hope for the best--e.g., Zaviar Gooden, Sean Porter at OLB or a Bostic, Alonso at ILB.

Edited by biggerdaddynj, 02 March 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[JPS]

There's no LB that worth a top 10 pick.....not when you may be able to get a franchise LT or a generational talent at OG.  Drafting for need is what has gotten Buffalo into trouble in the 1st place. Troupe. Williams. Graham.

I'll keep harping on it...when it's apple season, pick apples.  Take the O-lineman. Get the QB and the LB later.

[ny33]

JPS, on 02 March 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

There's no LB that worth a top 10 pick.....not when you may be able to get a franchise LT or a generational talent at OG.  Drafting for need is what has gotten Buffalo into trouble in the 1st place. Troupe. Williams. Graham.

I'll keep harping on it...when it's apple season, pick apples.  Take the O-lineman. Get the QB and the LB later.

O-line is a waste of a top-ten pick; if scouts see a WR, QB, or pass rusher that they think can produce, you take that player. Ask the Dolphins how the Jake Long pick (over Chris Long and Matt Ryan) worked out for them. There are also plenty of busts at the position, even in the top ten; see Jason Smith, for example.

If our scouts are competent, they should be able to find someone more valuable than an offensive lineman. That player may even be a DT, which we have two solid players at. O-line is the most overrated use of a top ten pick in the game, particularly when your o-line is decent and the defense, QB, and WRs are mediocre.

[jjmac]

unpaid_bills34, on 02 March 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Releasing Barnett was a head scratcher guess his injury was worse than reported.  I love Moats and Bradham but they have long way to go

Didn't he fail his physical?

[K-9]

ny33, on 02 March 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

O-line is a waste of a top-ten pick; if scouts see a WR, QB, or pass rusher that they think can produce, you take that player. Ask the Dolphins how the Jake Long pick (over Chris Long and Matt Ryan) worked out for them. There are also plenty of busts at the position, even in the top ten; see Jason Smith, for example.

If our scouts are competent, they should be able to find someone more valuable than an offensive lineman. That player may even be a DT, which we have two solid players at. O-line is the most overrated use of a top ten pick in the game, particularly when your o-line is decent and the defense, QB, and WRs are mediocre.

Depends ENTIRELY on who that OLineman is. Period.

GO BILLS!!!

[ny33]

K-9, on 02 March 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Depends ENTIRELY on who that OLineman is. Period.

GO BILLS!!!

Look at the teams that have drafted OTs in the top ten recently. Now tell me how many of those teams have been perennial playoff contenders, or Super Bowl winners recently. The answer is none. Good teams, like the 49ers, draft players like Aldon Smith in the top ten, or WRs like Julio Jones, or QBs if you think there is one that fits the bill. You don't draft CBs, RBs, or O-linemen.

[Hopeful]

LVBillsBackr, on 02 March 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Barnett is on the wrong side of 30 and was getting torched in coverage last yr. He was a liability in coverage and they watched "tape" this offseason and didn't take em long to see it. I do agree with you though we gotta get our hands on a few LB's

He was def. getting torched
He was also playing OLB for the first time, and I wonder how much that had to do with it.
Needing to think about what to do rather than just reacting does tend to slow a guy down just enough to miss the play
It seems wierd to me that we currently have Kirk Morrison on our roster, who never could see the field and was often a healthy scratch, but we cut Barnett; Barnett>Morrison

jjmac, on 02 March 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Didn't he fail his physical?

Yes

http://nbcsports.msn...om/id/50775357/

But not being able to pass a team physical in Feb is not used to preclude keeping a valued player on the roster, provided the injury is expected to be healed by the start of the season

Of course, there can be differences of opinion, the team doctors can recommend a surgery the player doesn't want to undergo in which case the player may be released due to "failed physical"

[K-9]

ny33, on 02 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Look at the teams that have drafted OTs in the top ten recently. Now tell me how many of those teams have been perennial playoff contenders, or Super Bowl winners recently. The answer is none. Good teams, like the 49ers, draft players like Aldon Smith in the top ten, or WRs like Julio Jones, or QBs if you think there is one that fits the bill. You don't draft CBs, RBs, or O-linemen.

Is the discussion simply confined to "recently?"

Like I said, depends ENTIRELY on who the player is. Please don't tell me that it's a waste to draft a Jonothan Ogden or Orlando Pace in the top 10.

GO BILLS!!!

[Best Player Available]

ny33, on 02 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Look at the teams that have drafted OTs in the top ten recently. Now tell me how many of those teams have been perennial playoff contenders, or Super Bowl winners recently. The answer is none. Good teams, like the 49ers, draft players like Aldon Smith in the top ten, or WRs like Julio Jones, or QBs if you think there is one that fits the bill. You don't draft CBs, RBs, or O-linemen.

That's odd. THREE of the FIVE offensive lineman starting for the superbowl San Francisco 49ers.
Were drafted in the first round.

[JPS]

ny33, on 02 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Look at the teams that have drafted OTs in the top ten recently. Now tell me how many of those teams have been perennial playoff contenders, or Super Bowl winners recently. The answer is none. Good teams, like the 49ers, draft players like Aldon Smith in the top ten, or WRs like Julio Jones, or QBs if you think there is one that fits the bill. You don't draft CBs, RBs, or O-linemen.

SF took 3 O-linemen in the 1st round in the last 5 years, including one at pick 11.  Matt Kalil looks dominant. Tyron Smith is very good.  I agree with your theory. It just happens to suck when you apply it to this draft.  Who are you going to take? Patterson? Jordan? Geno?  It comes down to confidence in the pick. And in 2013, there is no Julio, Aldon, or Matty Ice.

Then what?

[NewEra]

ny33, on 02 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Look at the teams that have drafted OTs in the top ten recently. Now tell me how many of those teams have been perennial playoff contenders, or Super Bowl winners recently. The answer is none. Good teams, like the 49ers, draft players like Aldon Smith in the top ten, or WRs like Julio Jones, or QBs if you think there is one that fits the bill. You don't draft CBs, RBs, or O-linemen.

Just a stupid general statement that really has zero substance to it IMO.  If you get a superstar at CB, OL or RB they will help the team and would be great picks.  Whether or not they turn out to be a superstar is the question that no one really has the answer for

[Hopeful]

ny33, on 02 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Look at the teams that have drafted OTs in the top ten recently. Now tell me how many of those teams have been perennial playoff contenders, or Super Bowl winners recently. The answer is none. Good teams, like the 49ers, draft players like Aldon Smith in the top ten, or WRs like Julio Jones, or QBs if you think there is one that fits the bill. You don't draft CBs, RBs, or O-linemen.

Interesting question.  Er, since perennial playoff contenders don't draft in the top 10, they lack the chance to draft any player at that position, making it kind of tautological?
I mean, the Bills outright suck, haven't had a winning record since 2004, and we've drafted at 9, 3, 10 and 8 the last 4 years.  It doesn't take much to move out of the top 10.

Let's look at the first round overall to be more realistic.  Maybe the last 5 years, since it can take a few years for a draftee to make an impact.

The '49ers drafted 2 1st round OL in 2010 at 11 and 17, OT and guard.  Playoffs in 2011, SB in 2012.
Baltimore drafted an OT in 2009 at #23.  Superbowl in 2012.   Have been to playoffs 5 of the last 5 years.
Pitt drafted a C in 2010 (18) and G in 2012 (24).  SB in 2008 and 2010, Have been to playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.
GB drafted a T in 2010 (23), SB in 2010, Have been to playoffs 4 of last 5 years.

2011 SB teams: NYG and NE have not drafted an OL in the 1st round for the last 5 years.  I'm not sure how the NYG do it.  I'm fairly certain that The Hoody takes the OL off to a remote location in the country and shows them a pit full of starving Pit Bulls with the message "you let Our Boy get his hair mussed much less his knickers dirty and you'll be down there with the bow-wows mistaking you for a bone.  Then I'll pull you out and pour melted plastic on your balls.  Then we'll start to hurt you."

But I digress, point being, of the teams that have played in the last 3 Superbowls, 4 of the 6 spent high 1st round picks on the OL.
In addition, of recent playoff teams or up-n-comers, Atl (2008,21), Cin (2009, 6; 2012, 27) and Den (2008, 12) have all invested 1st round picks on the OL

So I think the contention that perennial playoff and Superbowl teams don't spend 1st round picks on OLmen is not supported by the facts.
Top 10 picks?   Perennial playoff contenders don't draft there very often, so of course you're right.

Edited by Hopeful, 02 March 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Dibs]

Hopeful, on 02 March 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

The '49ers drafted 2 1st round OL in 2010 at 11 and 17, OT and guard.  Playoffs in 2011, SB in 2012.
Baltimore drafted an OT in 2009 at #23.  Superbowl in 2012.   Have been to playoffs 5 of the last 5 years.
Pitt drafted a C in 2010 (18) and G in 2012 (24).  SB in 2008 and 2010, Have been to playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.
GB drafted a T in 2010 (23), SB in 2010, Have been to playoffs 4 of last 5 years.

Furthering to that.....
2012 Playoff team Vikings drafted OT at 4 in 2012
2012 Playoff team Redskins drafted OT at 4 in 2010
2010 & 2012 Playoff team Seahawks drafted OT at 6 in 2010

I think one will find that the only true correlation between specific draft pick & immediate success would be those teams that have a young QB produce at a high level early.

[FleaMoulds80]

biggerdaddynj, on 02 March 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Need one SOLID free agent signing who fits Pettine's scheme (not an old, slow Bart Scott--only sign him on the cheap and just expect him to serve as a "player-coach", if you will).  Then in the draft I hope to God we go LB at 8 (Jarvis Jones if he's there is worth the risk--"Von Miller-lite"),or Dion Jordan (I think he will be a freak and is SO versatile) or Ogletree (there is a dearth of ILBs and he is the only one worthy of a top 10 pick), ASSUMING he made it through the interview and they feel he's safe).  Then we grab another later (3-4) and hope for the best--e.g., Zaviar Gooden, Sean Porter at OLB or a Bostic, Alonso at ILB.

Jones, Jordan or Ansah would be perfect. Lot of people here feel that we're set in the pass rush department but thats a load of BULLSH*T. We're an average pass rush team that needs improvement. Time to stop reaching for players and take BPA defensive player in the draft.

[JPS]

FleaMoulds80, on 02 March 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Jones, Jordan or Ansah would be perfect. Lot of people here feel that we're set in the pass rush department but thats a load of BULLSH*T. We're an average pass rush team that needs improvement. Time to stop reaching for players and take BPA defensive player in the draft.

We are NOT set at pass rush. Not even close. But, what if the BPA defensive player IS a reach? Ansah is the only one who seems to be a legit top 10 to me. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.