74 replies to this topic

[T master]

I know there has been a lot of posts & reply's calling for the release of Fitz b/c of his performance last year & the amount of his contract. Plus the fact of how much of a cap hit the team will take in the future .

But i was wondering do you think b/c of the relationship that our new OC Hackett & Fitz have had in the past that he will really want to cut him ?

I'm thinking that we will be keeping him for at least one more year, just b/c of the familiarity the 2 have with each other, & the fact that it could cause some resentment from other players such as Stevie J towards the OC which could make things a bit sticky .

He meaning Stevie has always had Fitz back & said he was his guy . We haven't really heard much from other players about the situation but i know they are comfortable with him...

And Hackett seemed to have good things to say about him so what do you think ?

[PNW_Bills_Fan]

What connection do Fitz and Hackett have?

[Meathead]

fitz has a whole head full of hair and hackett has none so they are like brothers

[NewEra]

Of course Stevie is going to say Fitz is his guy.  Saying anything but would be stupid. If fitz is cut, Stevie will end up being happy with it.  Fitz sucks.

[The Beautiful East]

PNW_Bills_Fan, on 04 March 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

What connection do Fitz and Hackett have?

Well, Hackett was Quality Control Coach for the Bills when Fitz was backing up Edwards. Haven't heard of any deeper connection. The other point does seem valid, though. To put it more positively: Fitz is probably a rather important part of the Bills' locker room chemistry.

Also, as I've stated before, if we're going to draft a raw QB in the 2nd or 3rd round, Fitz is exactly who I want to have as a mentor. Not because he's the best QB of all times but because he's the smartest with an absolutely impeccable work ethic.

[machine gun kelly]

I'm fine with the above comment as long as Fitz renegotiates his deal down to 3+ mil / year as he sucks.  This will be his only shot left at starting, and NO OTHER TEAM IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LET HIM START AT QB!!!!!!!!

[BuffaloFan68]

Draft someone like G Smith or Barkley & never look back.

[Hopeful]

The Beautiful East, on 04 March 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

Well, Hackett was Quality Control Coach for the Bills when Fitz was backing up Edwards. Haven't heard of any deeper connection. The other point does seem valid, though. To put it more positively: Fitz is probably a rather important part of the Bills' locker room chemistry.

Not to belabor the obvious, but if a guy is an important part of LOSING locker room chemistry, maybe that chemistry needs to change

I could never tell - does anyone know what offensive system the Bills were running under Jauron when Fitz arrived here?  Wondering how much experience Fitz has under West Coast and it's unsurprisingly difficult to find information about the offensive system of bad teams >3 years ago

[BigCountryBills]

Hackett needs to win. Fitz doesn't win.

[T master]

PNW_Bills_Fan, on 04 March 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

What connection do Fitz and Hackett have?

Hackett was a assistant coach with the bills back when Van Palt was here & was moved into the QB coach position when Schonert was fired under DJ ..

[Ryan L Billz]

so its either upgrade to a real qb or continue to waddle around as a perennial loser with Fitz at the helm?

i choose the upgrade.     fitz is just too limited, lets turn the page.

[Maddog69]

Fitz has got to go.   Rip off the bandaid and move on.

[xsoldier54]

T master, on 04 March 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

I know there has been a lot of posts & reply's calling for the release of Fitz b/c of his performance last year & the amount of his contract. Plus the fact of how much of a cap hit the team will take in the future .

But i was wondering do you think b/c of the relationship that our new OC Hackett & Fitz have had in the past that he will really want to cut him ?

I'm thinking that we will be keeping him for at least one more year, just b/c of the familiarity the 2 have with each other, & the fact that it could cause some resentment from other players such as Stevie J towards the OC which could make things a bit sticky .

He meaning Stevie has always had Fitz back & said he was his guy . We haven't really heard much from other players about the situation but i know they are comfortable with him...

And Hackett seemed to have good things to say about him so what do you think ?

Fitz will be gone and rightfully so.  He had his shot and he failed.  Time to move on.  I don't think Stevie or anyone else would even blink an eye.

[Triple Threat]

The Beautiful East, on 04 March 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

To put it more positively: Fitz is probably a rather important part of the Bills' locker room chemistry.

Also, as I've stated before, if we're going to draft a raw QB in the 2nd or 3rd round, Fitz is exactly who I want to have as a mentor. Not because he's the best QB of all times but because he's the smartest with an absolutely impeccable work ethic.

I'm not so sure Fitz is important to the locker room mostly (as Hopeful mentioned), due to the losing.  I think we have a locker room of guys that aren't the type (s) to turn on their teammates.  It's locker room ready with quality guys for a QB to flourish in.  I don't however believe that's a result of Fitz being the calming force.  I think their most likely like us thinking he's an easy guy to get behind but just isn't good enough.

I'm going to have to challenge you on the second part also.  I don't see Fitz as someone you would want to groom.  No doubt he's smart and by all accounts seems to work hard, but with his limited ability has also been limited play calling.  I'd say Gailey had to weaken his offense due to Fitz's lack of physical skills.  So how much he actually knows about the game could be parallel.

[FeartheLosing]

Hopeful, on 04 March 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Not to belabor the obvious, but if a guy is an important part of LOSING locker room chemistry, maybe that chemistry needs to change

I could never tell - does anyone know what offensive system the Bills were running under Jauron when Fitz arrived here?  Wondering how much experience Fitz has under West Coast and it's unsurprisingly difficult to find information about the offensive system of bad teams >3 years ago

Well, in 2006 Marv Levy / Dick Jauron first hired OC Steve Fairchild away from the Rams to run a version of that Mike Martz offense. Now Fairchild never called the offensive plays for the Rams but he setup the offense and game plans.

In his first year as OC the Bills offense was fairly balanced with 431 attempts passing vs 420 attempts rushing with JP Losman at QB / Willis McGahee at RB. Most fans complained that the offense was too boring and that the Bills ran to much. My thoughts were that this was exactly what the Bills needed to do to develop a young QB Losman properly.

Fairchild left after one season to become the HC at Colorado, and instead of hiring an experienced NFL OC like Marv had done in the past. Jauron promoted then QB coach Turk Schonert to be the new OC. So I suspect it was to maintain continuity of the same offensive system for the young QB.  What it did was allow an unproven OC a free hand to setup game plans and call plays. Schonert called mostly shotgun passing plays The Bills drafted RB Marshawn Lynch and QB Trent Edwards in 2007.  Alex Van Pelt who was quality control for the offense became the new QB coach.

The Bills then went on a musical chairs approach to the starting QB switching between Losman and Edwards which eventually ruined the confidence of both players. Schonert continued to the call plays in 2008 while virtually ignoring play action passing for constant shotgun plays.

Two weeks before the 2009 season started Jauron fired Schonert and again promoted the QB coach to OC I suppose to maintain that continuity of the offense for the young QB's.


Now, anyone familiar with the Mike Martz passing offense knows it relied on having a great O line, and running game to go along with that all out 5-7 step drop back passing attack. Martz had that when he won a super bowl with the Rams. He also had pro bowl O linemen and Marshall Faulk at RB to take the heat away from the QB. He also had some pretty great WR's to catch those deep balls. Once the O line weakens and the RB isn't as great that offense sucks and gets the QB injured from all the deep-drop back pass plays.

Kinda why Martz was eventually fired by the Rams, Fired by the Lions, fired by the 49ers, fired by the Bears. His offensive system gets his QB's sacked / injured from all the deep passing plays called.


Marv Levy tried to build the O line with high priced free agent O linemen, which worked as long as the Bills had veteran O line coach Jim McNally. Once he retired that line went to hell. Plus the fact that Levy never did find an adequate center.

Anyway, Fitz got to Buffalo in 2009 and he was originally drafted by Mike Martz, and the Rams back in 2005. So Fitz knew the offense when he got to Buffalo. Probably why he had 8 GS in 2009, and went 4-4.


With the hiring of Chan Gailey in 2010 the "new" offensive scheme changed to a mostly spread offense with short / quick passes type system. When Gailey gave Trent Edwards the majority of the reps in pre season and Brian Brohm and Fitz split the rest of the reps is the reason for the 0-8 start that year, and the 4-12 finish as Fitz had to learn the offense as he played.




EDIT: If Marrone / Hackett can take an unknown QB in Ryan Nassib and turn him into a 2nd round draft pick. Then I think those two can help Fitz a great deal.

Edited by FeartheLosing, 04 March 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[distortions]

Awesome post Fear!

[Captain Hindsight]

Its not a strong enough connection to make Fitz the undisputed starter. I like Fitz a lot and respect how he gives his all for this team, but he is extremely limited in what he can do. If Hackett decides to keep him rather than bring in a young gun, then I'm scared for this new regime

[Marauder24]

FeartheLosing, on 04 March 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Well, in 2006 Marv Levy / Dick Jauron first hired OC Steve Fairchild away from the Rams to run a version of that Mike Martz offense. Now Fairchild never called the offensive plays for the Rams but he setup the offense and game plans.

In his first year as OC the Bills offense was fairly balanced with 431 attempts passing vs 420 attempts rushing with JP Losman at QB / Willis McGahee at RB. Most fans complained that the offense was too boring and that the Bills ran to much. My thoughts were that this was exactly what the Bills needed to do to develop a young QB Losman properly.

Fairchild left after one season to become the HC at Colorado, and instead of hiring an experienced NFL OC like Marv had done in the past. Jauron promoted then QB coach Turk Schonert to be the new OC. So I suspect it was to maintain continuity of the same offensive system for the young QB.  What it did was allow an unproven OC a free hand to setup game plans and call plays. Schonert called mostly shotgun passing plays The Bills drafted RB Marshawn Lynch and QB Trent Edwards in 2007.  Alex Van Pelt who was quality control for the offense became the new QB coach.

The Bills then went on a musical chairs approach to the starting QB switching between Losman and Edwards which eventually ruined the confidence of both players. Schonert continued to the call plays in 2008 while virtually ignoring play action passing for constant shotgun plays.

Two weeks before the 2009 season started Jauron fired Schonert and again promoted the QB coach to OC I suppose to maintain that continuity of the offense for the young QB's.


Now, anyone familiar with the Mike Martz passing offense knows it relied on having a great O line, and running game to go along with that all out 5-7 step drop back passing attack. Martz had that when he won a super bowl with the Rams. He also had pro bowl O linemen and Marshall Faulk at RB to take the heat away from the QB. He also had some pretty great WR's to catch those deep balls. Once the O line weakens and the RB isn't as great that offense sucks and gets the QB injured from all the deep-drop back pass plays.

Kinda why Martz was eventually fired by the Rams, Fired by the Lions, fired by the 49ers, fired by the Bears. His offensive system gets his QB's sacked / injured from all the deep passing plays called.


Marv Levy tried to build the O line with high priced free agent O linemen, which worked as long as the Bills had veteran O line coach Jim McNally. Once he retired that line went to hell. Plus the fact that Levy never did find an adequate center.

Anyway, Fitz got to Buffalo in 2009 and he was originally drafted by Mike Martz, and the Rams back in 2005. So Fitz knew the offense when he got to Buffalo. Probably why he had 8 GS in 2009, and went 4-4.


With the hiring of Chan Gailey in 2010 the "new" offensive scheme changed to a mostly spread offense with short / quick passes type system. When Gailey gave Trent Edwards the majority of the reps in pre season and Brian Brohm and Fitz split the rest of the reps is the reason for the 0-8 start that year, and the 4-12 finish as Fitz had to learn the offense as he played.




EDIT: If Marrone / Hackett can take an unknown QB in Ryan Nassib and turn him into a 2nd round draft pick. Then I think those two can help Fitz a great deal.

Nassib hasn't been a 2nd round pick, yet, and Fitz will always be what he is:  a QB who will win you 5 - 7 games a season.

[KollegeStudnet]

BigCountryBills, on 04 March 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Hackett needs to win. Fitz doesn't win.

This should be the end of the debate. Hackett needs to win...Fitz doesn't win

[yungmack]

Not to belabor the obvious but all this talk about cutting Fitz & drafting a "franchise" QB has to come down to this basic question: do you believe any QB in this draft is a real improvement over Fitz, who can come in & turn things around right now? If your answer is "no," then how in the world can you even think of getting rid of him? That's the heart of the matter. Or to put it another way, Fitz may not be very good, but are any of these guys better?  I don't believe any of them are.  The Bills are going to draft a QB.  Whoever it is will have flaws & will need work, & to my eyes, none of them are anywhere near capable of coming in this year & turning things around.

Edited by yungmack, 04 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.