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#1 Terrakon

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

I really love this site and I truly appreciate the research and work that people put into their posts.  ...Sensing a  "but" ... But, I think we can all agree on a few things:

1) We LOVE the BILLS
2) We HATE the losing and mediocrity
3) We WANT to win

Obvious, yes, but reading these boards I wonder if I'm reading the words of Bills fans.  

I think we have to wait and see.  Many other teams this year are not spending in FA and releasing old/veteran players.

I guess I'm just annoyed at the constant pessimism.  I know we have been sold this bill of goods before (3 years.. new coach).  I'm as disappointed with the team as everyone.  I realise our glory days are long behind us even though I feel like it wasn't that long ago.  I guess I've become that old guy thinking of the good 'ol days.  I mean when I grew up people like Joe Namath were ancient history just like to many Bills fans today Jim Kelly is ancient history.

Nonetheless, we have no clue what this new coaching staff has in mind.  My take is we have to wait and see. I think it's a positive that so many players that, in all honesty, have been torn up on this message board for lack of production or failures otherwise have been let go.  Good.  

Let's stop the misguided wishing for washed up names like Urlacher and move on, building on our young team guided by a new coach that played the game and, judging from interviews, peer reviews and past performance, has a solid football mind and great passion.

#2 BringBackFergy

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:09 PM

Agreed.

#3 LVBillsBackr

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:20 PM

View PostTerrakon, on 22 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

I really love this site and I truly appreciate the research and work that people put into their posts.  ...Sensing a  "but" ... But, I think we can all agree on a few things:

1) We LOVE the BILLS
2) We HATE the losing and mediocrity
3) We WANT to win

Obvious, yes, but reading these boards I wonder if I'm reading the words of Bills fans.  

I think we have to wait and see.  Many other teams this year are not spending in FA and releasing old/veteran players.

I guess I'm just annoyed at the constant pessimism.  I know we have been sold this bill of goods before (3 years.. new coach).  I'm as disappointed with the team as everyone.  I realise our glory days are long behind us even though I feel like it wasn't that long ago.  I guess I've become that old guy thinking of the good 'ol days.  I mean when I grew up people like Joe Namath were ancient history just like to many Bills fans today Jim Kelly is ancient history.

Nonetheless, we have no clue what this new coaching staff has in mind.  My take is we have to wait and see. I think it's a positive that so many players that, in all honesty, have been torn up on this message board for lack of production or failures otherwise have been let go.  Good.  

Let's stop the misguided wishing for washed up names like Urlacher and move on, building on our young team guided by a new coach that played the game and, judging from interviews, peer reviews and past performance, has a solid football mind and great passion.
welcome to the board. Now embrace the pain dammit! :D

#4 Terrakon

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostLVBillsBackr, on 22 March 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

welcome to the board. Now embrace the pain dammit! :D
Haha!!! Thanks....I think.

#5 KeisterHollow

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:56 PM

No doubt this Bills staff is one to look forward to.  I feel like we'll be relevant right out of the gates, now.  With Pettine running the D, and Marrone and Hackett running the O, I think we'll be hovering around .500 on a bad year with these guys.

However, when it comes to fan frustration, and this site - I think it boils down to more than just impatience.  Fans want their team to win, to be great, to be relevant.  When you see this team go through coach after coach, GM onto no GM onto GM, and after almost 20 years of what appears to be NO REAL PLAN, when we see guys like Fred Davis, Redskins TE who is a FA now, and could be had for a modest amount, sitting there while the Bills HAVE NO TE worth even ranking in the NFL, without Chandler - and even at his best, he was average - it makes you wonder.

I think what everyone gets angry about, frustrated about, is that it seems like Winning, being Champions, being the best, doesn't even cross the minds of half the Bills FO.  They really do seem, from the distance of we, the fans, to appear satisfied with MERELY getting close to making the playoffs!  This team has been down for so long, and is coming from such a low place, that just being competitive is their goal!  And, they seem willing to take their time, and they don't always look under every rock, so to speak.

Still - I can see this staff wanting to actually erase the past, wanting to be better than just competitive - wanting to be Champions - and I can see them wanting to bring in their own talent, via the draft, to as much of a degree as possible.  So, we'll just have to wait and see!

#6 filthymcnasty08

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostKeisterHollow, on 22 March 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

No doubt this Bills staff is one to look forward to.  I feel like we'll be relevant right out of the gates, now.  With Pettine running the D, and Marrone and Hackett running the O, I think we'll be hovering around .500 on a bad year with these guys.

However, when it comes to fan frustration, and this site - I think it boils down to more than just impatience.  Fans want their team to win, to be great, to be relevant.  When you see this team go through coach after coach, GM onto no GM onto GM, and after almost 20 years of what appears to be NO REAL PLAN, when we see guys like Fred Davis, Redskins TE who is a FA now, and could be had for a modest amount, sitting there while the Bills HAVE NO TE worth even ranking in the NFL, without Chandler - and even at his best, he was average - it makes you wonder.

I think what everyone gets angry about, frustrated about, is that it seems like Winning, being Champions, being the best, doesn't even cross the minds of half the Bills FO.  They really do seem, from the distance of we, the fans, to appear satisfied with MERELY getting close to making the playoffs!  This team has been down for so long, and is coming from such a low place, that just being competitive is their goal!  And, they seem willing to take their time, and they don't always look under every rock, so to speak.

Still - I can see this staff wanting to actually erase the past, wanting to be better than just competitive - wanting to be Champions - and I can see them wanting to bring in their own talent, via the draft, to as much of a degree as possible.  So, we'll just have to wait and see!

most definitely.....this.

#7 Ryan L Billz

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:58 PM

Nice post.    Agree the doom and bloomers should hold off til week 6 and especially the draft before the tears fly IMO.


Why the urlacher hate.      Get Er Dun !      



#8 Terrakon

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:49 PM

View PostRyan L Billz, on 22 March 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Nice post.    Agree the doom and bloomers should hold off til week 6 and especially the draft before the tears fly IMO.


Why the urlacher hate.      Get Er Dun !      

It did sound kind of like hate on Urlacher, but I mostly meant him as an example of an older/vet that doesn't fit this new team. Urlacher's cool, just not for Buffalo.

#9 Leelee Phoenix

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:05 AM

Unless the Bills strike gold with the QB they draft, you can't realistically this team is better or even the same level as last year's. And they sucked last year.

At least with Marrone there's hope because he's a complete unknown at this level. Better than when I hated Gailey from day 1, and knew he'd fail. So, there's something.

#10 benderbender

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:25 AM

Urlacher couldn't be a downgrade compared to last year. At the very least he could mentor younger defensive players. Or at least that was the justification for Merriman's waste of space. I wouldn't mind James Harrison for the same reason: to instill a killer instinct in our spineless D.

#11 first_and_ten

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:48 AM

View PostRyan L Billz, on 22 March 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Nice post. Agree the doom and bloomers should hold off til week 6 and especially the draft before the tears fly IMO.


Why the urlacher hate.   Get Er Dun !   

Week Six? Why not just wait until week 16?

#12 Green Lightning

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:23 AM

I've followed the Bills since 1963. So it's my team and I'll bitch if I want to.  That said, I mostly agree wirh the OP.

#13 8and8Forever

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:29 AM

View PostLeelee Phoenix, on 23 March 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

Unless the Bills strike gold with the QB they draft, you can't realistically this team is better or even the same level as last year's. And they sucked last year.

At least with Marrone there's hope because he's a complete unknown at this level. Better than when I hated Gailey from day 1, and knew he'd fail. So, there's something.
Yep, couple a key injuries on the O and D Lines and this season will go down the crapper in a hurry with new coordinators, new system and new QB all trying to get on the same page with CBA-limited practice reps.   The New CBA simply added to the difficulty of rebuilding a team.

#14 Meathead

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:37 AM

when referring to a buddy gmed team please use the correct redneck syntax of 'we dont know nuthin'

#15 chris heff

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:47 AM

View PostMeathead, on 23 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

when referring to a buddy gmed team please use the correct redneck syntax of 'we dont know nuthin'
You forgot "dadgumit".

#16 jaybee

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:57 AM

View PostKeisterHollow, on 22 March 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

No doubt this Bills staff is one to look forward to.  I feel like we'll be relevant right out of the gates, now.  With Pettine running the D, and Marrone and Hackett running the O, I think we'll be hovering around .500 on a bad year with these guys.

However, when it comes to fan frustration, and this site - I think it boils down to more than just impatience.  Fans want their team to win, to be great, to be relevant.  When you see this team go through coach after coach, GM onto no GM onto GM, and after almost 20 years of what appears to be NO REAL PLAN, when we see guys like Fred Davis, Redskins TE who is a FA now, and could be had for a modest amount, sitting there while the Bills HAVE NO TE worth even ranking in the NFL, without Chandler - and even at his best, he was average - it makes you wonder.

I think what everyone gets angry about, frustrated about, is that it seems like Winning, being Champions, being the best, doesn't even cross the minds of half the Bills FO.  They really do seem, from the distance of we, the fans, to appear satisfied with MERELY getting close to making the playoffs!  This team has been down for so long, and is coming from such a low place, that just being competitive is their goal!  And, they seem willing to take their time, and they don't always look under every rock, so to speak.

Still - I can see this staff wanting to actually erase the past, wanting to be better than just competitive - wanting to be Champions - and I can see them wanting to bring in their own talent, via the draft, to as much of a degree as possible.  So, we'll just have to wait and see!

Nice post.  8-8 to me would be fantastic out of the gate with this bunch IMO.  I would "like" to think this could be done even if we entered next season with zero personnel changes....exact same roster.  A better record based on coaching alone.... getting the most out of their players and using schemes that take advantage of the personnel.

I dont know if my expectations are too high at 8-8 or not.  Sure hope not.  If I'm wrong I hope its because they went 10-6...and made the playoffs.  Good grief I'd have a pig roast to celebrate if that happened.

jb

#17 TaskersGhost

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostTerrakon, on 22 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

I think we have to wait and see.  Many other teams this year are not spending in FA and releasing old/veteran players.

I guess I'm just annoyed at the constant pessimism.  I know we have been sold this bill of goods before (3 years.. new coach).  I'm as disappointed with the team as everyone.  I realise our glory days are long behind us even though I feel like it wasn't that long ago.  I guess I've become that old guy thinking of the good 'ol days.  I mean when I grew up people like Joe Namath were ancient history just like to many Bills fans today Jim Kelly is ancient history.

Nonetheless, we have no clue what this new coaching staff has in mind.  My take is we have to wait and see.

LOL

Not commenting on my emotional position one way or another, but seriously?

There are a number of these threads every single offseason and even for the first six weeks of the season until the realities kick in and paint a picture that should be obvious now, ... but apparently isn't.

View PostTerrakon, on 22 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Nonetheless, we have no clue what this new coaching staff has in mind.  My take is we have to wait and see.

No, we really don't have to wait.  You could put Vince Lombardi reincarnate as coach of this team and it's still a world away from being competitive.  Teams with the talent comparable to what's in Buffalo simply don't compete, and teams looking like this in March simply don't get better between April 1st and the season opener to the extent necessary whereby they can compete.

Seeing it any other way at this point, while perhaps being painted as uncertain, and not to be provocative, is naive if not ignorant of the NFL.

The only question is what can you actually do about it?  There is some power within you, but you're not exercising it if you take the position of "wait and see" and support the team with your wallet doing the same-old-same-old tango every season only finding that when the music stops your eyes were closed and your dance partner was imaginary.

View PostTerrakon, on 22 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

I really love this site and I truly appreciate the research and work that people put into their posts.  ...Sensing a  "but" ... But, I think we can all agree on a few things:

1) We LOVE the BILLS
2) We HATE the losing and mediocrity
3) We WANT to win

Obvious, yes, but reading these boards I wonder if I'm reading the words of Bills fans.  

Yes, many fans, that I know anyway, love the Bills so much that they've bailed on them, much like a family gives up on a recalcitrant alcoholic that absolutely refuses to do what's in their own best interest to any extent that any further relationship becomes nothing but enabling the wayward person.

So too, this organization is wayward.  There is absolutely nothing to suggest that it is even capable of producing success as defined in the NFL.  It's only, literally, only single era of success occurred nearly two decades ago now, and the person single-handedly responsible for it wasn't even installed into power by design, it was a hasty decision forced by very unfortunate circumstances, or else even that relatively brief era in over 40 years of NFL membership wouldn't even have existed.

Then, by that same organization's wisdom, they saw fit to pull the plug on that era, as I guess that half a decade of success was simply too much for an owner that had no idea how to achieve it otherwise, that they couldn't stand it any longer.

So here we are, just as we were prior to the Polian era.  The Bills have had no sustained success, none whatsoever, and to the tune of really just three playoff seasons with a 1-3 record in them if we consider that the '90s team always had remnants of the team that Polian built still on it as its effectiveness faded with its last playoff appearance having been in the '99 season and its last playoff win having come in the wildcard round of the '95 playoffs.

There is no reason, none, nada, zilch, to think that it will change unless the proverbial lightning indeed strikes twice in the same spot.  That's highly unlikely however.  Highly unlikely.

FF to today.  You have another situation for which success would be all but a miracle if things pull together under yet another coach, this time from the collegiate ranks so that the "naysayers," really those rooted in reality, have little concrete ammo to preordain what already appears to be the next blatant failure, with the only ammo on the supporters of the new regime being the same lack of ammo and essentially what you've stated, namely ...

View PostTerrakon, on 22 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

I think we have to wait and see.

What else can you do?  You have no choice.

The only choice(s) that you have is how many of your resources (time, money, emotions) you're going to expend this fall.

Sitting in front of a PC interacting w/ other fans/friends discussing this doesn't cost you/us much, and we'd be doing it on some other topic anyway, so may as well be something in common.  But that and two bucks will get you a plain coffee at a decent coffee shop.

I can't speak for you or anyone else that posts here regularly, but I know as a fact I'm speaking for a growing number of people, hardcore Bills fans, some of which sat through all of the home playoff games of the '90s with me and others, or camped out overnight in sub-freezing temps just to get four (limit) tix to those games, we won't be spending anymore of our money, time, or other resources during the season until the team has competent ownership and a competent front office.

The window dressing (coaching staff) keeps changing like diapers on an infant, fresh and clean when they go on, stenching to the nines when they come off, the wipes and turd polish applied, and a fresh pair put on, but the core problem seems to go all but unnoticed and certainly unchallenged for the most part.  The team would have been better off keeping Gailey & Co. and having clean swept the front office.  Gailey would have been replaced soon after that.

Anyway, when you say

View PostTerrakon, on 22 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Nonetheless, we have no clue what this new coaching staff has in mind.  My take is we have to wait and see.
, we may not know what they have in mind, but we certainly know what the end result is going to be.  The coaching staff does not have anywhere near the experience and the roster has nowhere near the talent to even approach being competitive in the NFL nor will that condition exist for at least several seasons if things go perfectly, which they won't with this front office.  It's going to be the same diaper load that we've gotten since Polian's departure and the last vestiges of his team were rinsed from the system, both front office as well as talent.

That day was the day that Tom Donahoe was hired, and he installed a front office that has been the gift that keeps on giving.

You can fully expect the Draft this year to be on average no different than past ones with poor due diligence having been conducted, players reached for, etc.  You can expect the new coaching staff to be handcuffed by the same lack of talent.  You can expect the release of a couple of players next season that you now consider pivotal to rebuilding.  You can expect whichever QB that they select to be the wrong one.  You can expect more stupid free-agent signings overpaying for talent, particularly after this year when they end up with an even worse record than last season.  There is no reason, none whatsoever, to think that this team will even hit the 6 wins it had last season, especially when it's clear the the schedule is much more difficult and now that Miami has improved significantly too.  The team will be lucky to win one game against either the Fins or Pats and the Jets despite their issues are no gimme for them either.

It's one thing to post here for free and not benefitting the marketing dept. of the team.  It's another for a business, an NFL team called the Bills, to take money from the taxpayers of Erie Cty. and NYS for a failed business venture and flawed product.

It's also another for fans to insist to others that they need to spend their money on such a faulty product that's already forced money from their wallets via corruption in the government(s).

If you, or anyone, wants change, then don't pay a dime for anything.  The team will get the message, and the executive staff will be fired just as they usually are for most corporations, and with any luck, the new ones will have a clue.

Fans keep throwing darts at the dartboard to try to tag the blame, but they keep missing the target, which is the core of the team, the management/front-office.  Nothing, absolutely nothing, is going to change until everything even remotely tied to Donahoe or former Pittsburgh is rinsed from this organization completely.  Yet, everyone keeps supporting it, like Whaley.

Fans get what they support, and those paying the most, for whatever it is that they buy, tix, merchandise, whatever, do the most harm to the cause of getting solid play in Buffalo again.

When, and only when, the stadium sits mostly empty, will the organization change enough to get the right people in place that know what they're doing to be able to create a winning business, but not until that time.  It doesn't matter who the coach is in the meantime under the team's current cheapskate and idiotic policies.

Don't blame the messenger, that's just the state of the Bills.  This year-in-year-out exercise whereby anyone not buying into the current "experts'" ways are lambasted has long since worn out its welcome.  Meanwhile, all of those people that we've been told are experts and know what they're doing unlike those of us complaining the loudest, are either now out of jobs in the NFL or have been subordinated to lesser roles exactly because the very last thing that they were was experts in their roles here.  Unfortunately, the odds of not seeing the same or similar discussion here about a new coach on March 23rd, 2016 are all but nil.

The only thing that's important right now is who the new owner(s) will be, and what their long-term plans are, and if they involve Buffalo, who they put into the front office and hopefully after having swept out every last person in there on the player/personnel side presently.

So yes, we are all fans, but some of us are just tired of being insulted and patronized as if we're nothing more than here to keep those in the front office employed.

Edited by TaskersGhost, 23 March 2013 - 10:06 AM.


#18 TaskersGhost

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:50 AM

View Postjaybee, on 23 March 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

I dont know if my expectations are too high at 8-8 or not.  

Again, not trying to provoke you, but there's absolutely no basis for that hope.  None whatsoever other than simply hope for hope's sake.

This team is so far away from 8-8 that if they're lucky, literally, lucky, they may be 8-8 in 2015.

It's the fan/heart part of you that thinks that.  The head/brain/reason side supporting such a notion simply doesn't exist and any assessment that says it does is being absurdly skewed by the emotional side.

Allow me to ask however, do you enjoy watching the games in recent seasons?  I mean really, do you enjoy sitting down on Sundays and watching the Bills play, or try to play perhaps is more aptly worded?  If so, then you are in an extreme minority, even among others that post here regularly.  Unless getting angry and frustrated ranks as a good time for you or them, clearly no one actually enjoys the way that the Bills play except for maybe a game or two, usually against a bottom-tier opponent like KC last season.  Heck, even when they win some of their few games, it's quite often because some even more hapless team like KC, the Jags, or Jets simply plays even worse presenting the battle of the invalids.

I'm only asking because I'm sure I'll get slammed by most people for these posts, but those same people will be b***hing up a storm come October, complaining about all the time and money they've wasted, while those aligning with my thinking sit there and scratch their heads at why these same people keep pouring lemon juice into their wounds in self-inflicting fashion.  It's comical to watch from the outside, but apparently those doing it cannot see it.

Because I don't enjoy watching the team "play."  I really don't.  If I try and watch them it causes more distress knowing how the Bills once played but then watching the futility both in coaching as well as play, not to mention inferior players continually getting abused by better players on winning teams.  I'm not a big Ravens fan, but living within a few hours of their core and in their region, it's a pleasure simply watching them play football.  I don't get excited about them as I do the Bills, but you know what, it's far more entertaining watching their on-field product.  Far more.

So I rarely watch entire games anymore.  I'd rather just watch good football and hope that a new owner replaces Wilson sooner rather than later and that the team's "brain" finally becomes something other than cement poured in between the organization's ears.  Fan or not, it's like watching one of your kids do something tremendously stupid that you know that they know isn't a great idea, but because they insist they do it anyway.  That doesn't mean that you have to watch them do it much less want to.  It merely adds insult to injury.

Anyway, I'm asking because I would watch the games even if they were 4-12 every season, IF they actually played competent football, but they don't.  For a decade it's like watching a JV version of an NFL team try to compete with varsity teams.  I'm half expecting our coaches to be allowed to walk onto the field to correct players as if it's some kind of 5th-Quarter or something.  And again, even when they win, it's often, arguably more often than not, still while not playing competently, merely less incompetently than the opponent.

At the same time, I've always found it difficult to get excited over a winning season, like 2004, that was built on a house-of-cards schedule featuring the walking wounded and even worse teams than us repeatedly.  As if losing to the Steeler 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th teamers wasn't the tell tale indicator as such.  Yet, the following season all everyone was talking about was that 6-1 finish against crap teams without pointing that out and it led to false hopes, ... again.

Unfortunately there is no one in a position of influence, much less impact decision making, at OBD that has a vision like Polian ever had.  That's the core problem.

Either way, there's going to be a lot less room for error and playing teams that are less competent than the Bills are this season with its more difficult schedule and the Fins having improved notably.

Edited by TaskersGhost, 23 March 2013 - 10:15 AM.


#19 Dr. Who

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

Such a long ghostly rant -- and then there was another one!

Short version of above:  Wilson is incompetent and indifferent.  The Polian hire was close to an accident.  There's no rational evidence the team will not be very bad so long as Wilson is the owner.  The only tangible thing fans could do to change the situation is not buy tickets and refuse to support the team.

#20 Leelee Phoenix

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:56 AM

View Postbenderbender, on 23 March 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Urlacher couldn't be a downgrade compared to last year. At the very least he could mentor younger defensive players. Or at least that was the justification for Merriman's waste of space. I wouldn't mind James Harrison for the same reason: to instill a killer instinct in our spineless D.
Urlacher would be a downgrade, especially in a 3-4. Who would Harrison and Urlacher "mentor"? Guys like Sheppard and Bradham that you just benched for washed up old guys?

This isn't Madden.