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The "Hybrid" Defense


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#1 H2o

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:43 PM

All we keep hearing is that we're not running a 3-4 or a 4-3, but it will be a "Hybrid" defense. I, for one, am all for putting our defenders in the best position to succeed. Does our team personnel fit the 4-3 or the 3-4? One could make an arguement for both. Let's take a look at what we have right now and I will explain my stance on what I feel we should do. Afterward, all of you feel free to express your thoughts on what you believe would work best or just shred my post. :thumbsup: I know that the draft hasn't even taken place yet, nor is FA over so all of the peices are not in place yet so this is not going to cover the whole roster in about 5 weeks. This is just a right here, right now observation.

The starters for the 4-3 base defense would likely be Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Marcel Dareus, Mark Anderson, Manny Lawson, Kelvin Sheppard, Nigel Bradham, Stephon Gilmore, Da'Norris Searcy, Jarius Byrd, and Leodis McKelvin. Our 4-3 defense was gouged last year for chunks of yards in the running game, Gilmore was a rookie learning on the fly, and Wannstedt was completely inept as a DC. Here's my opinion on the beneficiaries of this defense. Mario can succeed in any scheme, imo. We all know that the 4-3 benefits Kyle Williams as well because he gets to penetrate into the backfield more so. Carrington seemed to come into his own last season playing DT in this scheme. I believe this scheme fits Bradham at this point in time with his athletic ability, watching him make plays in the open field at times. Now let me give some notes as to whom this does not benefit, imo. Dareus seemed to take a step backwards last season in this scheme. His rookie year he was coming on big time playing @ NT in the 3-4. This past season he just looked out of place. This could be due to poor coaching, Dareus being asked to play an unfamiliar role, or he just isn't that good. I tend to believe it was him being unfamiliar with the scheme and Wannstedt being inept. Sheppard struggled in his full time role as a MLB. He struggled to get off of blocks, didn't seem very instinctive on the field, is a liability in pass coverage, and time and time again seemed to be out of position. I believe his struggles are due to the fact that he is not a cover the whole field MLB. Mark Anderson, in his short stint on the field, could generate no pressure from the DE spot. He's a bad fit for the 4-3. Lawson is better attacking, but can play either way due to athletic ability. Not an ideal fit for a 4-3 LB, but can still be productive. The secondary is the secondary, it just depends on what kind of coverages we run and Wannstedt didn't do us any favors.

This is what I envision as the starting group for a 3-4 defense and where I would like to see them line up. Our 3 man front would be Kyle Williams @ LDE, Dareus @ NT, and Carrington @ RDE. Our edge rushers would then be Lawson coming off of the side with Carrington and Mario coming off of the side with Kyle. Those 5 guys on the line, attacking upfield, seem a whole lot better off to me than the 4 man front discussed in the above paragraph. Dareus would hopefully pick up where he left off in the latter half of his rookie season and be a beast. I know Kyle will be out of position, but I think our defense stands a better chance to succeed with these 5 guys on the front. I see our ILB's being Bradham and Sheppard. Personally, I think Bradham could excel @ this spot. He has the athletecism and seems to possess the instincts for it, but there would be a learning curve for him. I think Sheppard would be better served also, having to only worry about half of the field versus playing the traditional MLB role. Mark Anderson, in a reserve role, would go back to a more natural fit applying pressure off of the edge. Not sure what to do with Moats, but likely depth on the edge as well along with Kyle Moore. Scott will likely be a back-up ILB along with Chris White. Hopefully we will get a LB or two in the draft that can make an impact, especially @ ILB because I'm not a big Sheppard fan.

The Nickel defense would likely have a similar front as the 4-3 with Kyle Williams going back to a more natural position for him, Dareus, Mario, and Anderson or Lawson coming off of the other edge. Sheppard would then slide back to last year's dreadful spot and Bradham would likely play beside him. The question is does Leodis stay on the outside or drop down into the slot? Depending on what Leodis does, who comes in to play the outside or slot WR's? Is it Ron Brooks? Is it Aaron Williams? God forbid, could it be Justin Rogers? Hopefully Brooks takes a step forward this year also after showing well in the preseason before his injury. We need some quality CB depth for certain.

All in all, looking at the personnel and thinking about responsibilities, I think we are best served to run the 3-4 as our base defense. I believe that putting Dareus back in the middle and having Carrington on the field more, along with the edge rushers of Williams and Lawson would make our defensive unit much better off than last year's putrid product. Throw in the fact that we actually have a good DC putting together the playbook and I believe we have the makings of a team that will surprise some people this year. It would be nice for a change to have a defense on the field that not everyone has plugged in their FF RB's against every Sunday. Here's to Pettine and a hope for the return of the 3-4. :thumbsup:

#2 #34fan

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

I'm trying my best to abandon the obsession with "schemes" and "fits" for these schemes... A good defense (DC) successfully exploits the weaknesses of their opponents. Period. -These weaknesses vary from team to team, so IMO film preparation is key.

What concernes me, is that last year our front four simply could not get off blocks. From a physical standpoint, we were underwhelming. A problem with that, is that even if you are being held a little, you wont get that call, because you're not dominating your man.

Now, you want those same guys to suddenly develop the freakish talent necessary to control gaps and create opprtunities for LB's? -What LB's????

It doesn't matter to me who's hands are in the dirt as long as the result is a turnover or wasted down. I respect Pettine's experience, but when I look around our roster, I don't see guys big, or athletic enough to pull off a "hybrid".

My response to that would be letting Pettine go ape-s#!t in this draft and get those guys... NO QB at #8!!!! Instead, secure a guy like Ziggy Ansah, who in addition to showing speed, and versatility, also showed how hard he can be to handle as a passrusher.
3-4 OLB seems very possible with him... Or put him in a three point stance as a DE.... There's a chunk of your hybridized defense right there.

Edited by #34fan, 23 March 2013 - 06:12 PM.


#3 Dr. Trooth

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:21 PM

In a 3-4...

1)  No way Kyle can be a de
2) Darius is not a nt and needs to play around 315 and is a good 3-4 de and that is was exactly what he was drafted for.


#4 machine gun kelly

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:35 PM

I disagree.  KW can play DE in a 3-4 successfully and MD can play NT unless we can get a natural NT.  We have too many other needs and if we coudl bolster the CB after Gilmore, we can make an impact this year on defense.  The scarier part is the offensive holes. Had we not lost Levitre, I'd feel better with a rookie QB.

#5 KOKBILLS

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:52 PM

View PostDr. Trooth, on 23 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

In a 3-4...

1)  No way Kyle can be a de
2) Darius is not a nt and needs to play around 315 and is a good 3-4 de and that is was exactly what he was drafted for.

Well...I don't disagree about Dareus at all...That take is 100% spot on...

But the problem is, in a 3-4, no way Kyle can be a NT either...He'll likely be forced into it if the Bills can't find a NT, or if Troup is officially done...But IMHO Kyle Williams is simply a no-fit in a 3 man front...So if you want to get him on the field and have some success it's going to have to be as a 3-4 DE...Maybe some type of "elephant" package like Big Teddy and Fat Pat used to run...I don't know...

I just don't see KW as a fit for a 3-4 whatsoever...And if I had to pick the lesser of two evils I would put Dareus at NT and hold my breath... B-)

#6 johnnywo

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:03 PM

I see Kyle Williams producing no matter where you put him....BEAST.

#7 peteski

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:16 PM

View PostDr. Trooth, on 23 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

In a 3-4...

1)  No way Kyle can be a de
2) Darius is not a nt and needs to play around 315 and is a good 3-4 de and that is was exactly what he was drafted for.

Kyle Williams can do anything. Chuck Norris is scared of Kyle.

#8 benderbender

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:24 PM

Lets just run a 4-4 or 4-6 since nobody can figure out who can do what on our current roster

#9 Dr. Trooth

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

View PostKOKBILLS, on 23 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:



Well...I don't disagree about Dareus at all...That take is 100% spot on...

But the problem is, in a 3-4, no way Kyle can be a NT either...He'll likely be forced into it if the Bills can't find a NT, or if Troup is officially done...But IMHO Kyle Williams is simply a no-fit in a 3 man front...So if you want to get him on the field and have some success it's going to have to be as a 3-4 DE...Maybe some type of "elephant" package like Big Teddy and Fat Pat used to run...I don't know...

I just don't see KW as a fit for a 3-4 whatsoever...And if I had to pick the lesser of two evils I would put Dareus at NT and hold my breath... B-)

I don't see Kyle as a good fit for the 3-4 either.  And, if he's not in the base 3-4, that would make him a 'package' player that probably gets less than 50% of the snaps.  I can only see him in 4 dl alignments and as a nt only in certain situations.

To me he'd be a good candidate to trade with his $5m salary. But, you'd be lucky to get a 4th rounder.





#10 #34fan

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:10 PM

You cannot successfully build something with a hybrid of Lego and Linkin' Logs... It wont hold together. The PIECES THEMSELVES need to be hybridized. Each block has to be endowed with BOTH faculties...That's why it never works for us...

Now, Ziggy Ansah, and Margus Hunt? Those  two kids appear to be naturally hybridized.

Two sub-4.7 passrushers? That'd be some nasty sh*t to have to deal with.. Both are YOUNG, VERSATILE, and ATHLETIC enough to learn both techniques.

Lots of you may LOL, but these kids are making waves after learning the game from SCRATCH. -They've performed at a high level, and prevailed  by way of sheer determination.

That's the tao of Russel Wilson... Pay attention to the guys who aren't supposed to be doing what they're doing, then see if you can figure out why... Once dumb-luck, and pixie-dust have been ruled out, you give the kid a legitimate shot.

BUDDY SHOULD KNOW THIS!

He was the one who drafted Darren Sproles as a punt/kick returner in 2005! Sproles was taken in the fourth round, and made  third string RB behind Tomlinson, and Turner... -No one found out Sproles could ALSO be a 100 ypg  rusher until 2007!

Sproles is the best example of a natural hybrid I can think of. Yet, Buddy seems to have forgotten all about him.

Bottom line... If we want a hybrid D, we'll have to acquire the players, because we sure as hell don't have them now. Without any new additions/weapons, Pettine will struggle mightily.

Edited by #34fan, 23 March 2013 - 08:11 PM.


#11 KeisterHollow

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

View Post#34fan, on 23 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

I'm trying my best to abandon the obsession with "schemes" and "fits" for these schemes... A good defense (DC) successfully exploits the weaknesses of their opponents. Period. -These weaknesses vary from team to team, so IMO film preparation is key.

What concernes me, is that last year our front four simply could not get off blocks. From a physical standpoint, we were underwhelming. A problem with that, is that even if you are being held a little, you wont get that call, because you're not dominating your man.

Now, you want those same guys to suddenly develop the freakish talent necessary to control gaps and create opprtunities for LB's? -What LB's????

It doesn't matter to me who's hands are in the dirt as long as the result is a turnover or wasted down. I respect Pettine's experience, but when I look around our roster, I don't see guys big, or athletic enough to pull off a "hybrid".

My response to that would be letting Pettine go ape-s#!t in this draft and get those guys... NO QB at #8!!!! Instead, secure a guy like Ziggy Ansah, who in addition to showing speed, and versatility, also showed how hard he can be to handle as a passrusher.
3-4 OLB seems very possible with him... Or put him in a three point stance as a DE.... There's a chunk of your hybridized defense right there.

I believe part of last year's slump, and the D-line's inability to "get off blocks" had more to do with the players KNOWING they were playing for a Coordinator whose system was simple, predictable, outdated, and I just think these guys wore down in the motivation department.  You add a whole new group of coaches, a scheme that actually works, and I bet the D-line will be very good this year.  Are you kidding me - Kyle Williams is a top D-lineman in the entire NFL, Dareus has the ability to be BETTER, and Mario is absolutely no slouch.  Carrington, to me, is only going to get better - he's a big dude.  So, I just don't believe we don't have the size or talent to play a hybrid.

That being said, my two favorite picks for the Bills at 8 are Ansah and Jordan - because, I believe with their talents, added to what we have, we would be able to get after QB's almost at will.

#12 #34fan

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostKeisterHollow, on 23 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

I believe part of last year's slump, and the D-line's inability to "get off blocks" had more to do with the players KNOWING they were playing for a Coordinator whose system was simple, predictable, outdated, and I just think these guys wore down in the motivation department.  You add a whole new group of coaches, a scheme that actually works, and I bet the D-line will be very good this year.  Are you kidding me - Kyle Williams is a top D-lineman in the entire NFL, Dareus has the ability to be BETTER, and Mario is absolutely no slouch.  Carrington, to me, is only going to get better - he's a big dude.  So, I just don't believe we don't have the size or talent to play a hybrid.

I sure hope you're right when you say our guys "wore down in the motivation department". But even if you are, it doesn't make Marcel Dareus a reliable 3-4 nose tackle. Sorry, I just don't see it in him.

View PostKeisterHollow, on 23 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

That being said, my two favorite picks for the Bills at 8 are Ansah and Jordan - because, I believe with their talents, added to what we have, we would be able to get after QB's almost at will.

Oh, hell yes! I'd be 100% ALL IN on this :thumbsup:

#13 jboyst62

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:54 PM

Bradham is still raw, we cannot forget that.  There is a reason he was not selected in the top 2 rounds.  If he can play behind Mario then he will succeed, because he will not be touched.  Mario will take care of anything that heads Bradhams way.

Dareus' role, along with KWilliams was to hold the middle, make plays move around them and to the outside where the LB's will be able to make the plays.  We did not have the options to do that successfully on the DL, and the LB's to get it done at all.  Sheppard was left to fend for himself and is not the type of player to physically play the game with contact on every play.  He needs clear lanes, like most 43MLB's. Sheppard is a smart player that fits the Mike on the 34 defense much better then the 43 Mike.  He should not be relied upon for pass coverage, which is why I feel we go another route - Bryan Scott?  Anderson is such an interesting player I would love to have him on my roster.  He is, to me, what seems like a DE playing LB, but in a 4-3 set up.  He plays like an Will in the DE position.  He is rather quick for an NFL DE, 4.6 40 time, which doesn't lose much with pads on.  His agility is proven, while his size is undeniably an asset.  Dwight Freeney could never drop to the flat and cover zone, or make it to the RB on a screen.  Anderson can, and if he is blocked he can move the blockers on the move, too.  He is not an all-Pro, but he has a great chance to be what Phil Hansen was to us not too long ago. Lawson on the outside, weakside with Anderson is double insurance and promises us teams will not be outside on us.  He is a smart player who will not cost us penalties and most importantly, he can tackle.

Just because we call it a 43 does not mean we will run a 43.  Imagine the 43 with Anderson nearly playing Will OLB here, pulling out Lawson and inserting Rookie Will or Scott/A.Williams at 3rd SS.  This will bolster our pass defense, look like a 43 and something that Pettine has mastered.

At 34 putting 3 DT's on the front four...meh, not sure, man, not sure...  Dareus at NT means teams are going to run to the middle and you might as well put 20 yards of runway lights between the Guards, because that's going to be where everything focused.  Bradham can't shed blocks successfully enough with Sheppard right next to him.  Both of them play similarly poorly and their weaknesses are evident.  If you engage Sheppard he is a nonfactor, if he turn Bradhams body he is a nonfactor and 5 yards off the play.  So, as quick as KWilliams may be at DT, he will have Guards coming down on him from the opposite side, because Dareus will either be trapped and moved out of the play or double teamed and used to center the hole.  That leaves Carrington, and with his lack of manuevers and speed being his best asset he is going to road around and be downfield as the RB goes righ through them.  Mario will not matter, no one is going to run at him and even if teams pass on us in this formation and with this package we are going to be destroyed.  It'd be way too easy to pass over the middle or go right in the space Mario would be leaving.

So, with the 34 the better option is to get Lawson and on the strong side, Mario Williams on the weakside - see some article from a while ago where it showed how defenses use the weakside to blitz with the type of D we will run.  Anyway, Lawson on the strong side ensures that he is limitted in pass protection because we do not want to see him drop to coverage.  On the weak side we would have to put Anderson, with Dareus over the OG or KWilliams shifting to the weakside to unbalance the offensives protection scheme.  Carrington as the SSDE would make sense, his speed and strength to get inside pressure the QB is great.  For Mike I would have to find someone else we do not have on this roster because I do not know if I see someone who can fit this and I do not want to see Bryan Scott at Will again.  Mike would be Sheppard, I want him on the field win, lose or draw.  As stated, Lawson would be Sam and Mario would be Jack.  Sheppard fan or not, we do not have much of an option otherwise, well, we'd need 3 LB's and not just two.

For the record I want a Will early in the draft.  Hey, Astro, give me an OLB who has hips, who weighs over 230, smarts.  I will sacrafice speed for the smarts.  I value agility over tackling, angles over speed, and most importantly, vision over strength.

The Nickel depends on who is on the field for the offense and down and distance.  If it is the Pats or a TE strong team I would take McKelvin on the TE before I would want him on the 2nd or 3rd WR.  Brooks or Williams to CB is fine with me.  We have better CB depth then realized.

We are dreadfully poor on any certain scheme.  If we run a 34 based system we are short an ILB (Will), NT, and an OLB (Sam).  If we run the 43 we are short a SLB.  We, of course, could upgrade CB.

I will go your post and add some blitzing packages.  I do not want to give away too much because I am like 2 months in to a huge post about many defensive things.  In a Nickel, on a 3rd and over 8... I could see an awesome safety or cornerback blitz.  Gilmore coming off the edge and our new coverage strong OLB dropping back inside zone and hip of the WR while Byrd pushes his backside covering deep - yeaaaaahhhhh.  Bring the heat with Searcy?  Yes, of course, because if we have Scott on the field I think he can hold his own at safety.  On any of those plays putting Anderson in at DE and having him drop back to the flat to stop a dump pass is an easy option and he showed the ability a few times to defend a pass.

View Postmachine gun kelly, on 23 March 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I disagree.  KW can play DE in a 3-4 successfully and MD can play NT unless we can get a natural NT.  We have too many other needs and if we coudl bolster the CB after Gilmore, we can make an impact this year on defense.  The scarier part is the offensive holes. Had we not lost Levitre, I'd feel better with a rookie QB.
KW at DE means he is just that much further to the QB and most importantly he does not have the agility in his feet to make the play.  He is a leverage DT that beats OL by getting underneath them and maintaining good form.  Coming from the outside he just cannot do it, he cannot keep that much steam through that much of a OL.  There is a major difference between up the middle and outside.

View Postbenderbender, on 23 March 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Lets just run a 4-4 or 4-6 since nobody can figure out who can do what on our current roster
MWilliams-Dareus-KWilliams-Anderson
Lawson-Bradham-Sheppard-Scott
Gilmore-Byrd-McKelvin

Carrington-Dareus-KWilliams-Anderson
Lawson/Scott-MWilliams-Sheppard-Searcy
Gilmore-Byrd-McKelvin

With the Sam and Will on the same side we know Mario is going to blitz...but does not have to.  Lawson can contain the edge, we can easily slide down.  Of course, drop my man Anderson to some pass coverage on the opposite side to help Searcy or Scott.  On more likely passing plays pull Lawson, put in Scott at the Sam, he can cover the TE.

The 46 is a lot like Pettine's 3 Safety system and something I see us playing a lot of with the packaging similar to what is listed above.  If we get a bonafide MLB, WLB we can move Mario to weakside DE and this negates any worry we have on plays reaching the outside.  Of course, if we face a Flutie type of QB or that quick option crap Kaepernick does it would defeat this defense fairly easily.  I do not remember who we play enough to say who might be able to beat it.

View PostDr. Trooth, on 23 March 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I don't see Kyle as a good fit for the 3-4 either.  And, if he's not in the base 3-4, that would make him a 'package' player that probably gets less than 50% of the snaps.  I can only see him in 4 dl alignments and as a nt only in certain situations.

To me he'd be a good candidate to trade with his $5m salary. But, you'd be lucky to get a 4th rounder.
I agree about trading him, after this injury bug, after all of this - it is difficult to do.  It would not be awful to upgrade but with so much else to work on prior there is no real chance of that happening.  How could a 4th round pick produce us more then KWilliams can?

View Post#34fan, on 23 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

I'm trying my best to abandon the obsession with "schemes" and "fits" for these schemes... A good defense (DC) successfully exploits the weaknesses of their opponents. Period. -These weaknesses vary from team to team, so IMO film preparation is key.

What concernes me, is that last year our front four simply could not get off blocks. From a physical standpoint, we were underwhelming. A problem with that, is that even if you are being held a little, you wont get that call, because you're not dominating your man.

Now, you want those same guys to suddenly develop the freakish talent necessary to control gaps and create opprtunities for LB's? -What LB's????

It doesn't matter to me who's hands are in the dirt as long as the result is a turnover or wasted down. I respect Pettine's experience, but when I look around our roster, I don't see guys big, or athletic enough to pull off a "hybrid".

My response to that would be letting Pettine go ape-s#!t in this draft and get those guys... NO QB at #8!!!! Instead, secure a guy like Ziggy Ansah, who in addition to showing speed, and versatility, also showed how hard he can be to handle as a passrusher.
3-4 OLB seems very possible with him... Or put him in a three point stance as a DE.... There's a chunk of your hybridized defense right there.
The scheme was not designed to get them off the blocks.  It was to contain the OL and let the other 7 make the plays.  It was such a basic defense that anyone who played in Junior High played it.  I do not think he said anything about controlling gaps, there are a handful of players in the league now that can control gaps, Bianca Wilfork is one of them.

At 8, I want the best defensive player not playing FS or DE.  DT only if NT and he is the next Sapp or Wilfork.

View PostKeisterHollow, on 23 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

I believe part of last year's slump, and the D-line's inability to "get off blocks" had more to do with the players KNOWING they were playing for a Coordinator whose system was simple, predictable, outdated, and I just think these guys wore down in the motivation department.  You add a whole new group of coaches, a scheme that actually works, and I bet the D-line will be very good this year.  Are you kidding me - Kyle Williams is a top D-lineman in the entire NFL, Dareus has the ability to be BETTER, and Mario is absolutely no slouch.  Carrington, to me, is only going to get better - he's a big dude.  So, I just don't believe we don't have the size or talent to play a hybrid.

That being said, my two favorite picks for the Bills at 8 are Ansah and Jordan - because, I believe with their talents, added to what we have, we would be able to get after QB's almost at will.
Jordan would give us many options.  I would very much like him on this team and I think it is possible we can get him.  If we go Geno or other QB I think this team is selling out to the pressure of trying to make a QB then create a great team for success.  Ansah would be a bit of a stretch, we have 1 solid DE and 3 very good options going forward at DE.  I wish we heard more about Andersons recovery.  I would just as soon take a CB as I would Ansah, if Jarvis Jones and Jordan are both gone I would consider CB, because likely the best CB is still available.  Jones and Jordan will not both be gone, therefore we can get one of them and I think Jordan lasts longer then Jones.

Yeah, I took a long time writing all of that.  All ya'll better take the time to read it.  Thanks! :thumbsup:

Edited by jboyst62, 23 March 2013 - 10:55 PM.


#14 Green Lightning

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:56 PM

View Postjohnnywo, on 23 March 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

I see Kyle Williams producing no matter where you put him....BEAST.

Former beast.  With two detached Achilles tendons his signature burst is over. I reaaly believe he's done.

#15 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:14 AM

This discussion is a bit too comprehensive for me.

But I will say that at the present the Bills seems more suited to a 4-3.

However with no more than two significant moves, they could certainly tilt the balance back in favor of the 3-4.

#16 Dibs

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:53 AM

View Postjboyst62, on 23 March 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

.......

Yeah, I took a long time writing all of that.  All ya'll better take the time to read it.  Thanks! :thumbsup:

I'm glad you posted that last line as I was not going to read your post before seeing it.  I'm not very knowledgeable in this area and typically find long explanations to be well above my ability to follow them.  Not so with your post.

Thanks for taking the time to explain things.  :thumbsup:

#17 jboyst62

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

View PostSan Jose Bills Fan, on 24 March 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

This discussion is a bit too comprehensive for me.

But I will say that at the present the Bills seems more suited to a 4-3.

However with no more than two significant moves, they could certainly tilt the balance back in favor of the 3-4.
When you look at modern DE's many of them also fit a the profile of an outside linebacker.  Dwight Freeney is a guy everyone uses as an example of this because they say he is too small to be a DE but too big to be an LB.  Freeney is just under 6'1, about 260, and ran a 4.48.  So, for his size he is pretty quick, and his 28 reps at bench mean he is able to move some weight.

Mark Anderson may not look like a Linebacker but he has the attributes to do so.  Another intriguing prospect could be Arthur Moats, his 4.62, 6'4", 254, and other athletic measurable tangents paint a picture of a guy too weak to play DE with a hand on the ground but quick enough to be on the line and on top of a OT.

We do not have to use a 43DE as a DE, instead we can play him as a box guy, a new position, if you will.

#18 uncle flap

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:02 AM

I've been dropping this article in the various threads speculating on what the D will look like:

http://www.buffalobi...pettine-part-2/

It's really informative re: what Pettine has run in the past.

I don't totally agree with the author as far as where guys will fit, but he definitely sets a good baseline form which to start.

It was written a few weeks ago, so you can start by subbing Mark Anderson (not sure why he's snubbed here) and/or Manny Lawson in places you see Merriman and/or Moore (whom I'm not sure they'll re-sign).

Now I know Pettine has said himself that with the Bills, it will be about adjusting schemes to the personell, so maybe we can't read too much into what he's done previously. But what you see in the article is that Pettine's 3-4 over (and under) looks a lot like a 4-6 when they're lined up. The only difference is one of the LB spots is going to be a safety, and another will be a coverage LB like Bryan Scott (who would basically be a tweener safety/DB/LB).

Anyway, I think the linked article is a great read and sheds a lot of light on what we can expect the D to look like going forward. One thing the author harps on and that I totally agree with is that they could use some LB help in a big way, which is why I'd love to see Dion Jordan taken with the Bills first pick.

#19 frogger

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

i think when we see buffalo in the 3-4, Mario plays the 5 tech, dareus is on the nose and kyle williams or Carrington plays the DT, Anderson plays ROLB, Bradham plays weak ILB, Shep plays strong and Lawson LOLB.  this allows Buffalo to mix it up without subs.

#20 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

View Postjboyst62, on 24 March 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

When you look at modern DE's many of them also fit a the profile of an outside linebacker.  Dwight Freeney is a guy everyone uses as an example of this because they say he is too small to be a DE but too big to be an LB.  Freeney is just under 6'1, about 260, and ran a 4.48.  So, for his size he is pretty quick, and his 28 reps at bench mean he is able to move some weight.

Mark Anderson may not look like a Linebacker but he has the attributes to do so.  Another intriguing prospect could be Arthur Moats, his 4.62, 6'4", 254, and other athletic measurable tangents paint a picture of a guy too weak to play DE with a hand on the ground but quick enough to be on the line and on top of a OT.

We do not have to use a 43DE as a DE, instead we can play him as a box guy, a new position, if you will.

I appreciate the discussion but I still think the Bills as the roster currently stands, are better suited to a 4-3 based on my belief that they have fewer holes to fill in that alignment. In other words, by default.

That said, I think Mario Williams and Alex Carrington would make an awesome set of 5-technique DEs in a 3-4. Mario would have the extra ability to play two man stunts with the LB playing beside him, much like Bruce and Talley did.

edit: And like Lawrence Taylor and Leonard Marshall did.

Edited by San Jose Bills Fan, 24 March 2013 - 12:36 PM.