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The one position we should not take at 8


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#1 bufffan031

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:49 AM

We are in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball which is why I think we should not draft an offensive lineman at 8. I know we lost Levitre but the whole oline the last couple years has been good and the rest of that oline is still in tact. I do think that Chance Warmack is a great player but there is no point in taking a player at 8 that we are going to let walk in 4 or 5 years anyways because we don't want to pay him just like we did with Levitre.

That is why I say I think the best way to go at 8 is LB,S,CB,WR or TE. As I stated before,we are in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball and these positions are the ones that are going to be the playmakers on the field. I personally think we should go either with Ogletree, Vacarro or possibly Dee Milliner at 8 if he is there.

Bottom line an olineman especially a Guard, is only gonna be a 5 year player before we let them walk. We need a player at a skill level position that is going to be a 10-15 year player which is why we will need to get one of those other positions at 8

#2 Maddog69

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:14 AM

I would much rather take an OL at 8 over a Safety.  I have a semi-irrational aversion to drafting safeties in the top 10.

#3 KeisterHollow

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:42 AM

The way I judge these picks - on a round to round basis - is I look at the quality of talent at a position, and then I look at the quality that will likely be availabe later.  If there's an extreme drop off in talent from one round to the next at a given position, that makes those elite prospects at said position more valuable than a different position whose depth is so good as to see much less of a drop off.

For instance, would Lane Johnson be hugely better than the O-linemen who'll be around in, say, rounds 2 and 3?  That goes for Warmack, Ogletree, Vacarro - the whole lot.  It's exciting to see that a lot of positions still have top-notch, starter quality players projected to be available in rounds 2, 3, and sometimes even 4.

I think one of the shallowest positions in this draft is ILB.  However, I also think that Ogletree is not as good as a Patrick Willis, maybe not even as good as Keuckly, and there will be a few guys in round 2 who are much better than what we currently have.  As it stands, I think Buffalo would be able to get starters - and potentially good ones - in rounds 2-4, at WR, TE, O-line, and OLB.  I think if Buffalo wants to be sure they get a really good player at 8 then they probably have to go either QB, because of their particular situation, O-line (because the top guys, both Guard and Tackle, are pro-bowl caliber), or even Corner, if they feel Milliner has enough to play consistently at a pro-bowl level.

#4 Rob's House

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:52 AM

I don't think we should take anyone b/c at some point in time the organization has chosen not to retain a player of value at every position, so therefore whoever they draft will be let go in 4 years. Duh-da-durrr.

#5 BADOLBEELZ

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:39 AM

View Postbufffan031, on 10 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

We are in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball which is why I think we should not draft an offensive lineman at 8. I know we lost Levitre but the whole oline the last couple years has been good and the rest of that oline is still in tact. I do think that Chance Warmack is a great player but there is no point in taking a player at 8 that we are going to let walk in 4 or 5 years anyways because we don't want to pay him just like we did with Levitre.

That is why I say I think the best way to go at 8 is LB,S,CB,WR or TE. As I stated before,we are in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball and these positions are the ones that are going to be the playmakers on the field. I personally think we should go either with Ogletree, Vacarro or possibly Dee Milliner at 8 if he is there.

Bottom line an olineman especially a Guard, is only gonna be a 5 year player before we let them walk. We need a player at a skill level position that is going to be a 10-15 year player which is why we will need to get one of those other positions at 8

I think all of the positions you listed are just as likely to be allowed to walk as a guard is.

The players who you KEEP when they pan out are QB's, DE's(or in a 3-4 a premier pass rusher like DeMarcus Ware) and LT's.

Those are the blue chips of NFL position players.

CB's and WR's are the other two premium positions, but they remain perimeter players and "outside-in" is still not how you build a team.  

The Bills have a LT in Cordy Glenn.  They badly need an edge rusher from the RDE.......but by far their biggest need is QB.

The draft shouldn't be about filling needs.....it should be about getting the best value to your franchise......these are your long term investments.

But when that need is QB......using that top pick on a QB fills both need and best value to your franchise......because a QB is really the only individual player who can have a significant impact on the future of an organization.

So you guys can talk all you want about getting the next Marcel Dareus or Stephon Gilmore but if you don't have a quarterback you don't even really know what else you need.

#6 Cheddar's Dad

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:58 AM

View Postbufffan031, on 10 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

We are in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball which is why I think we should not draft an offensive lineman at 8. I know we lost Levitre but the whole oline the last couple years has been good and the rest of that oline is still in tact. I do think that Chance Warmack is a great player but there is no point in taking a player at 8 that we are going to let walk in 4 or 5 years anyways because we don't want to pay him just like we did with Levitre.

Buffalo should always draft from positions of strength in any particular draft. Positions of strength in this year's draft are  Receivers, TEs, OLBs. There are a few outstanding O-lineman in this draft but most are almost certain to go in the first round and there is a drop off after that. To insure that you get an outstanding O-lineman, you must get one in the first round in my opinion. My pick would be Warmack. I think the first round this year will be notable for bold moves by many teams needing O-line help to position themselves for a shot at one of the big 5. You know who those are.

Buffalo Lost Levitre and an important backup at the guard position. To say that the team has had a good O-line the past few years and should have one this year even after the loss of Levitre and the other guard is like sticking your head in the sand to avoid reality. The team is particularly weak at that position. Nor is it correct to say that because we lost Levitre to an insane offer, Buffalo will not try to retain guards after their initial contract, or that Buffalo should not draft another guard. Buffalo, not long ago, lost Winfield to an insane offer by Minnesota and Nate Clements to an insane offer by San Francisco. Buffalo will not match insane offers at any position.  

This is a poor year for QBs. Buffalo should not draft one in the first three rounds. Next year looks much better. After guard, the team needs to find a tight end and a receiver. So there you have it, Guard at 1, TE at 2, WR at 3. That will fill major holes on offense and fit Marrone's scheme for a strong running game and west coast passing atack.

#7 yungmack

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:05 PM

Taking a guard at 8 would be rank stupidity. Taking a dominating LEFT tackle there would be more than acceptable particularly if a dominating ILB is not there, & certainly over a mediocre QB.

#8 Cheddar's Dad

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

View Postyungmack, on 10 April 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Taking a guard at 8 would be rank stupidity. Taking a dominating LEFT tackle there would be more than acceptable particularly if a dominating ILB is not there, & certainly over a mediocre QB.

Watch the scramble this year for Warmack and Cooper. Cookie Cutter draft thinking = poor drafting.

One more thing about Levitre; it is said that he was a good pass blocker but at barely 300 lbs, actually more like 295, he didn't get much of a push. This could be another reason why the team let him go. Buffalo faces a strong middle Patriot D twice a year. We need athletic guards with brute strength that can move that D and beating the Patriots should be the Team's first objective on it's way to the SB.

#9 DasNootz

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:38 PM

Glenn is a servicable to good LT, but he could be a Great RT.  If a dominant LT is available at 8, you'd be setting a formidable line for years to come.

#10 Cheddar's Dad

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

View PostDasNootz, on 10 April 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Glenn is a servicable to good LT, but he could be a Great RT.  If a dominant LT is available at 8, you'd be setting a formidable line for years to come.

You may be right about Glenn and a new LT as I have not been thrilled with our RT players but what is your plan for Guard? Guard is the position of greatest need and I don't buy that old saw about being able to get guards in later rounds. There are always bodies in those rounds but as many guards drafted there turn out to be really good as the number of tackles drafted in those rounds; i.e., not many. Additionally, the top three tackles in this draft are likely to be gone when Buffalo picks at 8 and it isn't the OTs that have to deal with that Patriot beast. Recall the days when we had Ted Washington at nose. What did Parcells do to deal with Washington? He signed that big center (gads, can't remember his name) from Seattle. You must be able to neutralize the things that your opponent does well. Getting big, mean, and nasty in the middle of our O-line is something Buffalo must do.

#11 Turbosrrgood

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:07 PM

View Postbufffan031, on 10 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

We are in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball which is why I think we should not draft an offensive lineman at 8. I know we lost Levitre but the whole oline the last couple years has been good and the rest of that oline is still in tact. I do think that Chance Warmack is a great player but there is no point in taking a player at 8 that we are going to let walk in 4 or 5 years anyways because we don't want to pay him just like we did with Levitre.

That is why I say I think the best way to go at 8 is LB,S,CB,WR or TE. As I stated before,we are in dire need of playmakers on both sides of the ball and these positions are the ones that are going to be the playmakers on the field. I personally think we should go either with Ogletree, Vacarro or possibly Dee Milliner at 8 if he is there.

Bottom line an olineman especially a Guard, is only gonna be a 5 year player before we let them walk. We need a player at a skill level position that is going to be a 10-15 year player which is why we will need to get one of those other positions at 8

I have a few problems with this.

1) I don't think you should just simply say, "hey I want this position at this point in the draft". I think you need take the best talent available, if there are two similarly rated players, sure take the one that fills a need more. In other words, BPA.

2) You can't expect the Bills to draft around your own personal anguish over losing Levitre. The Bills (and all sports teams for this matter) will sometimes let go of good talent, that doesn't mean you should never draft that position again out of fear of loss. Further more, the position is completely irrelevant in this regard. If you draft a good player, eventually you will have to make a decision on resigning them. In this particular case I think the Bills made the right move, he was not worth that contract IMO.

3) You said there is only one position not to draft at #8. Personally I would be quite upset if the Bills draft a Punter or Kicker there. Granted I know Lindell can't kick 50 yarders (or isn't allowed to), but come on.

View PostCheddar, on 10 April 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

You may be right about Glenn and a new LT as I have not been thrilled with our RT players but what is your plan for Guard? Guard is the position of greatest need and I don't buy that old saw about being able to get guards in later rounds. There are always bodies in those rounds but as many guards drafted there turn out to be really good as the number of tackles drafted in those rounds; i.e., not many. Additionally, the top three tackles in this draft are likely to be gone when Buffalo picks at 8 and it isn't the OTs that have to deal with that Patriot beast. Recall the days when we had Ted Washington at nose. What did Parcells do to deal with Washington? He signed that big center (gads, can't remember his name) from Seattle. You must be able to neutralize the things that your opponent does well. Getting big, mean, and nasty in the middle of our O-line is something Buffalo must do.

People are assuming that Glenn would play RT if we drafted one of the top LT's in this draft.

Let's not forget that he played G for a time in Georgia, and was considered by many to be an NFL G going into the draft. So if they did move Glenn, LG is certainly an option considering the giant hole there now. Plus judging by Glenn's dominance in the run game as a rookie LT, he would probably be a top level  G. Dude's a monster.

Having said that, I think he is more valuable at T, and will probably stay there.

Edited by Turbosrrgood, 10 April 2013 - 01:43 PM.


#12 distortions

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:12 PM

Don't worry, the Bills always take a RB or CB with their first couple picks. :wallbash:

#13 The Dog

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

Number of draft order doesn't really matter, making the right decision / grading talent available does. There are those teams, like the evil empire that seem to make the most of their draft picks by judging talent, not who everybody wants.

#14 NewEra

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

View PostRob, on 10 April 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I don't think we should take anyone b/c at some point in time the organization has chosen not to retain a player of value at every position, so therefore whoever they draft will be let go in 4 years. Duh-da-durrr.


#15 jumbalaya

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:51 PM

What makes you think we will pay anyone we draft at 8 in 4-5 years? This team lets more talent walk than a strip joint.

#16 Maddog69

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:57 PM

View Postyungmack, on 10 April 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Taking a guard at 8 would be rank stupidity. Taking a dominating LEFT tackle there would be more than acceptable particularly if a dominating ILB is not there, & certainly over a mediocre QB.
I 100% agree with your comment regarding taking a guard at 8, but I have an issue with the highlighted part.  Te problem is that no player available in the draft is a finished product,   there is no way of knowing if Eric Fisher will be a dominating left tackle, or if Manti Te'o will be a domination linebacker, or if Ryan Nassib will be a mediocre QB.    NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE.    Unfortunately, you don't get the chance to draft guys after they've made a pro bowl.   The draft is a crap shoot.  Tons of guaranteed hall of famers from Rd1 turned into busts.   Tons of UDFA's became stars.

#17 Cheddar's Dad

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

View Postjumbalaya, on 10 April 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

What makes you think we will pay anyone we draft at 8 in 4-5 years? This team lets more talent walk than a strip joint.

Makes me think you've been to those places once or twice.

View PostMaddog69, on 10 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

I 100% agree with your comment regarding taking a guard at 8, but I have an issue with the highlighted part.  Te problem is that no player available in the draft is a finished product,   there is no way of knowing if Eric Fisher will be a dominating left tackle, or if Manti Te'o will be a domination linebacker, or if Ryan Nassib will be a mediocre QB. NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE. Unfortunately, you don't get the chance to draft guys after they've made a pro bowl.   The draft is a crap shoot.  Tons of guaranteed hall of famers from Rd1 turned into busts.   Tons of UDFA's became stars.

What are you saying? We should discard all of our scouting reports and throw darts at our board?

#18 swnybillsfan

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:26 PM

the only position i would rule out at 8 is anything that is not a qb. go get your damn ball thrower guy!

#19 Whitewalker Merriman

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:28 PM

Punter. Kicker.

#20 jumbalaya

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:50 PM

View PostCheddar, on 10 April 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Makes me think you've been to those places once or twice.

I spent 90% of my money on booze, gambling and women. I wasted the rest of it.

What are you saying? We should discard all of our scouting reports and throw darts at our board?