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West Coast Offense


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#1 SWVABillsFan

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:57 AM

I am not sure I have a complete understanding of the West Coast Offense. It seems to me that the passing game is not a deep threat and it is more run oriented. Can someone please explain it to us lamens?

#2 H2o

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:19 AM

http://forums.twobil...l__+west +coast

Wrote this a while ago.

#3 FeartheLosing

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

all ya gotta do is Google west coast offense....

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/

Basically its passing scheme that is intended to be a form of short passes replacing the running game for ball control.

Many NFL teams now utilize some form of the WCO and it has become a pass first offense.  http://en.wikipedia....t_Coast_offense

Just check out Bill Walsh and his coaching tree, it is amazing. http://en.wikipedia....football_coach)




Just some food for thought. Trent Edwards played college ball at Stanford and was well versed in the WCO. The Bills drafted Edwards and then tried to have him run some form of the Mike Martz passing scheme which called for more deep passing plays. (square peg, round hole) That Martz deep passing offense with 5-7 step drop-backs doesn't work well unless you have a very solid pass blocking O line. (which the Bills didn't)

Martz originally drafted Ryan Fitzpatrick and he learned the Martz offense while playing for him at St Louis. Probably why Fitz adapted to the Bills offense so quickly at first.  Then when Gailey went and changed to his spread offense, which I think was overly complicated passing wise. So much so that the majority of the Bills WR's never got it, nor did any of the other QB's besides Fitz. Brian Brohm, Trent Edwards, Vince Young, Tavaris Jackson, Brad Smith, Tyler Thigpen, Levi Brown.


If Marrone and Hackett are going to run their version of WCO. Then they already have two QB's on the roster who can run it in Kolb and Jackson.  That said, Matt Barkley could be the logical choice with that #8 pick.

Edited by FeartheLosing, 11 April 2013 - 11:51 AM.


#4 Kellyto83TD

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:36 AM

CJ = Roger Craig?  :thumbsup:

#5 Dibs

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:30 PM

View PostKellyto83TD, on 11 April 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

CJ = Roger Craig?  :thumbsup:

CJ > Roger Craig! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

#6 t317

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:52 PM

It's on like a MoFo

#7 reddogblitz

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:57 PM

How is a short passing pass happy offense different that what we ran last year?  Those that are clamoring for a run heavy ground and pound offense will be dissapointed it sounds like from what I'm hearing coming out of OBD.

If we're going to run a pass happy offense again, I hope this time we don't try to do it on the cheap with a substandard QB and WRs.

#8 JTO

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:18 PM

It was my understanding that we would be running more of a K-GUN type of offense.

#9 Kellyto83TD

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

View Postreddogblitz, on 11 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

How is a short passing pass happy offense different that what we ran last year?  Those that are clamoring for a run heavy ground and pound offense will be dissapointed it sounds like from what I'm hearing coming out of OBD.

If we're going to run a pass happy offense again, I hope this time we don't try to do it on the cheap with a substandard QB and WRs.

Ok Many say the WCO is just a short passing offense and I say BS. Montana, Young, Favre, Rogers etal. Go deep and go deep often.  The system sets up the ability to go deep see Rogers and Drew Brees as current examples.

#10 FeartheLosing

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:16 PM

View Postreddogblitz, on 11 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

How is a short passing pass happy offense different that what we ran last year?  Those that are clamoring for a run heavy ground and pound offense will be dissapointed it sounds like from what I'm hearing coming out of OBD.

If we're going to run a pass happy offense again, I hope this time we don't try to do it on the cheap with a substandard QB and WRs.
Huge difference in that under Marrone the Bills should be more run centric while still passing quite a bit. They should now run on 3rd and short instead of constantly forcing the broken QB to throw the ball up in the air for any down and distance.

Plus, don't forget Fitz used to get the ball out so very quickly that the O line never had to protect for more then 2-3 seconds, and even then Fitz took a lot of hits after the ball was out.  Gailey couldn't get his O line to make a 3rd and short running to save his life.  I think Marrone will build a power running attack for his offense, instead of Gaileys smoke and mirrors. At least I hope so.

View PostKellyto83TD, on 11 April 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Ok Many say the WCO is just a short passing offense and I say BS. Montana, Young, Favre, Rogers etal. Go deep and go deep often.  The system sets up the ability to go deep see Rogers and Drew Brees as current examples.
The way it works is they throw short to move the linebackers & safeties up, and then when they move up, the QB would throw deep.

Also, don't forget Jerry Rice used to lead the NFL in YAC, yards after catch. So he could take a short pass and make a big gain out of it.


"Coach Walsh had predicated his offense on controlling the ball through an opportunistic running game and timed high percentage short passes.  As the opponents geared themselves up to stop it, Walsh's teams would have opportunities for the big strike down the field.  "Nickel and dime offense"?  It Works!"

http://www.westcoast...com/history.htm

#11 Max997

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

Favorite quote from Bill Walsh

"Make the defense defend"



#12 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:45 PM

Yes there continues to be a lot of guesswork as to what the Bills offense will look like under Marrone.

He learned the "Gulf Coast Offense" under Payton.

His OC, Nathaniel Hackett has a father who is one of the main figures in the development of the West Coast Offense.

There has been talk originating from Hackett that the Bills will run some version of the K-Gun.

So right there we have three pretty different things going on.

#13 bkep32

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:36 PM

I guess time will tell how the WCO/Kgun will work this year.  Bills will prolly draft geno at 8.  Let him learn a year and release kolb before the start of next year

#14 FeartheLosing

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostSan Jose Bills Fan, on 11 April 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Yes there continues to be a lot of guesswork as to what the Bills offense will look like under Marrone.

He learned the "Gulf Coast Offense" under Payton.

His OC, Nathaniel Hackett has a father who is one of the main figures in the development of the West Coast Offense.

There has been talk originating from Hackett that the Bills will run some version of the K-Gun.

So right there we have three pretty different things going on.
Dunno about three pretty different things as the Gulf coast is very similar to the WCO, and the K gun simply adds the no huddle / hurry up offense to the mix with a TE instead of a 4th WR.

http://www.buddynixo...eyond-no-huddle

Interesting read as it just reaffirms my thoughts on Doug Marrone's new Bills offense.

#15 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:03 PM

View PostFeartheLosing, on 11 April 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Dunno about three pretty different things as the Gulf coast is very similar to the WCO, and the K gun simply adds the no huddle / hurry up offense to the mix with a TE instead of a 4th WR.

The Gulf Coast Offense run by New Orleans is a much more vertical offense than a typical West Coast Offense.

The K-Gun as run by the Bills in the glory years was also more vertical than a typical West Coast Offense.

That's what I mean by different.

#16 Bronc24

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:07 PM

As long it does not entail an empty backfield and 5 wide on 3rd and 1, I'm in.

#17 FeartheLosing

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:26 PM

View PostSan Jose Bills Fan, on 11 April 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

The Gulf Coast Offense run by New Orleans is a much more vertical offense than a typical West Coast Offense.

The K-Gun as run by the Bills in the glory years was also more vertical than a typical West Coast Offense.

That's what I mean by different.
I see your point.

The thing is with the Bills K-Gun is that they ran more then they threw it most of those glory years. Just like the WCO they ran Thurman to move the Lbers / Safeties up to stop the run and then threw deep behind them.

Something can sorta be said about the Saints "Gulf coast" offense which is a variation of the "run and shoot", and also relies heavily on a power run game to make it work. Kinda why the Saints have a bevy of RB's Mark Ingram, Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles.  Otherwise Brees gets knocked around way to much if they don't run often enough.


Anyway, this season should be very interesting to see how Marrone / Hackett utilizes both Spiller and Freddy. Which will be the feature back and which will be the 3rd down pass catcher like Sproles. I'll bet Marrone could have really utilized a back like Marshawn Lynch as his full workload back and then just use Spiller / Freddy in different passing / running packages so they both stay off the IR.

Then the Bills need two more proficient WR's, and a better TE.

#18 Astrobot

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:35 PM

"Hackett will fold no-huddle elements - popularly referred to as "K-Gun" elements by reporters thanks to Hackett's experience working under Alex Van Pelt - into game plans to keep defenses off balance"....""Some stuff we're going to do offensively is unique," Kolb said, "and it's going to be fun."
source

So, The K-Fun, Gulf Coast Offense.

#19 jboyst62

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostAstrobot, on 11 April 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

"Hackett will fold no-huddle elements - popularly referred to as "K-Gun" elements by reporters thanks to Hackett's experience working under Alex Van Pelt - into game plans to keep defenses off balance"....""Some stuff we're going to do offensively is unique," Kolb said, "and it's going to be fun."
source

So, The K-Fun, Gulf Coast Offense.
So who's the prospetive QB coming out with the poise to lead a hurried, no huddle offense taking 5-6 yards consistently?

#20 Tipster19

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:26 PM

View PostFeartheLosing, on 11 April 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

all ya gotta do is Google west coast offense....

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/

Basically its passing scheme that is intended to be a form of short passes replacing the running game for ball control.

Many NFL teams now utilize some form of the WCO and it has become a pass first offense.  http://en.wikipedia....t_Coast_offense

Just check out Bill Walsh and his coaching tree, it is amazing. http://en.wikipedia....football_coach)




Just some food for thought. Trent Edwards played college ball at Stanford and was well versed in the WCO. The Bills drafted Edwards and then tried to have him run some form of the Mike Martz passing scheme which called for more deep passing plays. (square peg, round hole) That Martz deep passing offense with 5-7 step drop-backs doesn't work well unless you have a very solid pass blocking O line. (which the Bills didn't)

Martz originally drafted Ryan Fitzpatrick and he learned the Martz offense while playing for him at St Louis. Probably why Fitz adapted to the Bills offense so quickly at first.  Then when Gailey went and changed to his spread offense, which I think was overly complicated passing wise. So much so that the majority of the Bills WR's never got it, nor did any of the other QB's besides Fitz. Brian Brohm, Trent Edwards, Vince Young, Tavaris Jackson, Brad Smith, Tyler Thigpen, Levi Brown.


If Marrone and Hackett are going to run their version of WCO. Then they already have two QB's on the roster who can run it in Kolb and Jackson.  That said, Matt Barkley could be the logical choice with that #8 pick.

You sir are very intelligent.