Jump to content


A Big Ugly


  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

#1 FeartheLosing

FeartheLosing

    Just awesome!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,635 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:28 PM

"Its a good year to be a big ugly"

http://buffalonews.c...two-bills-drive

I've been spouting for months that this is the year to draft an O lineman with that #8 pick and not the year to draft a QB. No QB is rated / graded better then a top 15 pick by most scouts and all of them need further development.

There are 4 top OT's in this years draft. 3 LT's and one RT that should go in the top 15. There are two OG's that should go in the top 15, and one in the top 10.

Fans claiming the Bills should trade back to get more picks. I've seen what Nix drafts in the later rounds, and would rather he take a shot at drafting an "impact" starter with that #8 then to lose out on what could be an all pro player to protect that future "franchise" QB.

In my view two of the biggest reasons for so much QB failure since the mid 90's is the fact that the Bills haven't spent a top 10 first round pick on a QB, AND haven't built that O line up like it was for Jim Kelly.

LT, Will Wolford*- LG, Jim Richter*, C Kent Hull*, RG John H Davis, RT, Howard Ballard

Let me repeat, this is NOT the year to draft that 'franchise" elite QB with the #8 pick, Simply because none of them grade out to be that good. Nobody in this draft is an Andrew Luck / RG3 or even a Matthew Stafford / Sam Bradford.

This is another year like 2010 with no Sam Bradford! Only Tim Tebow was taken behind Bradford in the first round, and Jimmy Clausen was the 3rd QB draft in the 2nd round. Say, BTW, how did that work out for the Panthers?

http://aol.sportingn...y-have-nfl-game

The bad thing is, the Buffalo Bills haven't brought in any O linemen to Buffalo for interviews AFAIK. :doh:



FYI, Bill Polian recently stated he thinks Oklahoma’s Landry Jones is the best QB in this years draft class.

“I don’t think anybody in this group is going to be able to step in right away and lead the team, but if you ask me, who’s the guy who’s most ready, and who’s the guy who’s had the most winning experience, it would be Landry Jones,” Polian said.

http://profootballta...b-in-the-draft/



Is Buddy Nix really the man to find that elusive elite franchise QB for the Buffalo Bills? Its almost as elusive as that proverbial baby that Nix along with Gailey & Co never found. This is the man who thinks this years class has 2 or 3 "franchise" QB's, even if the rest of the world disagrees.  I know I don't agree.

http://www.cbssports...013-draft-class




Edit: BTW, The Buffalo Bills worked out Landry Jones Mar 25th

Edited by FeartheLosing, 19 April 2013 - 05:30 PM.


#2 Rubes

Rubes

    The Doctor of Football...is IN

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,984 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:03 PM

I think I'll go out on a limb here and say that if the Bills pick Landry at #8, this entire board will implode.

#3 Johnny Hammersticks

Johnny Hammersticks

    You want a beer? How about some ether?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,684 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:13 PM

View PostRubes, on 19 April 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

I think I'll go out on a limb here and say that if the Bills pick Landry at #8, this entire board will implode.

Yes, kittens will be punted.

#4 jaybee

jaybee

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 850 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

View PostRubes, on 19 April 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

I think I'll go out on a limb here and say that if the Bills pick Landry at #8, this entire board will implode.

.........which is nothing new.  It happens on a daily basis.  If Polian is right....let the board implode all it wants.  I'm old and I want to see this team win a super bowl before I'm bench pressin daisys.

jb

#5 Dr. Trooth

Dr. Trooth

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,205 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:37 PM

View PostFeartheLosing, on 19 April 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

"Its a good year to be a big ugly"

http://buffalonews.c...two-bills-drive

I've been spouting for months that this is the year to draft an O lineman with that #8 pick and not the year to draft a QB. No QB is rated / graded better then a top 15 pick by most scouts and all of them need further development.

There are 4 top OT's in this years draft. 3 LT's and one RT that should go in the top 15. There are two OG's that should go in the top 15, and one in the top 10.

Fans claiming the Bills should trade back to get more picks. I've seen what Nix drafts in the later rounds, and would rather he take a shot at drafting an "impact" starter with that #8 then to lose out on what could be an all pro player to protect that future "franchise" QB.

In my view two of the biggest reasons for so much QB failure since the mid 90's is the fact that the Bills haven't spent a top 10 first round pick on a QB, AND haven't built that O line up like it was for Jim Kelly.

LT, Will Wolford*- LG, Jim Richter*, C Kent Hull*, RG John H Davis, RT, Howard Ballard

Let me repeat, this is NOT the year to draft that 'franchise" elite QB with the #8 pick, Simply because none of them grade out to be that good. Nobody in this draft is an Andrew Luck / RG3 or even a Matthew Stafford / Sam Bradford.

This is another year like 2010 with no Sam Bradford! Only Tim Tebow was taken behind Bradford in the first round, and Jimmy Clausen was the 3rd QB draft in the 2nd round. Say, BTW, how did that work out for the Panthers?

http://aol.sportingn...y-have-nfl-game

The bad thing is, the Buffalo Bills haven't brought in any O linemen to Buffalo for interviews AFAIK. :doh:



FYI, Bill Polian recently stated he thinks Oklahoma’s Landry Jones is the best QB in this years draft class.

“I don’t think anybody in this group is going to be able to step in right away and lead the team, but if you ask me, who’s the guy who’s most ready, and who’s the guy who’s had the most winning experience, it would be Landry Jones,” Polian said.

http://profootballta...b-in-the-draft/



Is Buddy Nix really the man to find that elusive elite franchise QB for the Buffalo Bills? Its almost as elusive as that proverbial baby that Nix along with Gailey & Co never found. This is the man who thinks this years class has 2 or 3 "franchise" QB's, even if the rest of the world disagrees.  I know I don't agree.

http://www.cbssports...013-draft-class




Edit: BTW, The Buffalo Bills worked out Landry Jones Mar 25th

So. Who is your impact guy? Last two times the Bills picked thos high...  Mike Williams, Donte Whitner.

Who says Buddy's making the pick?  I believe the pick will be based on a consensus of 3 people... Buddy, and the two Dougs.  And the two Dougs outnumber the one Buddy.

#6 3rdand12

3rdand12

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,538 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:06 PM

View PostDr. Trooth, on 19 April 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

So. Who is your impact guy? Last two times the Bills picked thos high...  Mike Williams, Donte Whitner.

Who says Buddy's making the pick?  I believe the pick will be based on a consensus of 3 people... Buddy, and the two Dougs.  And the two Dougs outnumber the one Buddy.
Dont believe a word Nix says.
But no one trumps Buddy on draft day. He is the Man who holds the sceptre for a couple days

#7 Johnny Hammersticks

Johnny Hammersticks

    You want a beer? How about some ether?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,684 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:07 PM

Buddy has made it pretty clear in interviews that he doesn't plan on drafting a guard at #8, and I think the 3 OT's (Joeckel, Fisher, Johnson) worth drafting in the top 10 will be gone by Arizona's pick at 7.  I tend to side with the OP in that I don't see a QB worth drafting in the top 10, and I don't want to see the Bills "reach" for a QB just because we need one so badly.

Obviously, best case scenario would be a trade back into the middle of the 1st round (i.e., St. Louis' # 16), pick up a few additional picks, and then drafting our QB at #16.  Given the depth of the WR and CB crop this year, they could address those positions in the 2nd and 3rd round (possibly a TE too).  Then, use the rest of the picks to add depth at other positions (i.e., safety, OL, LB).

#8 hondo in seattle

hondo in seattle

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,020 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:12 PM

I tend to agree with the OP.  To exaggerate the choice we face a little bit, I'd rather have a HOF lineman than a long-shot QB.

We fans tend to believe that games are won by the strong arms of their QBs.  And certainly there are some stats to back up this argument.  And since we haven't had a good QB in a such a long time, we want to see the Bills draft the best QB available this year.

But there's also a lot of truth still in the old adage that games are won in the trenches.  A good OL makes both your RBs and QBs more productive, not to mention improving the likelihood your QB will last an entire season.

We should have picked a QB in the first round last year.  I don't know about this year.

When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.  This year life is giving us Big Uglies.

Edited by hondo in seattle, 19 April 2013 - 07:14 PM.


#9 Triple Threat

Triple Threat

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,129 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:20 PM

View Posthondo in seattle, on 19 April 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I tend to agree with the OP.  To exaggerate the choice we face a little bit, I'd rather have a HOF lineman than a long-shot QB.

We fans tend to believe that games are won by the strong arms of their QBs.  And certainly there are some stats to back up this argument.  And since we haven't had a good QB in a such a long time, we want to see the Bills draft the best QB available this year.

But there's also a lot of truth still in the old adage that games are won in the trenches.  A good OL makes both your RBs and QBs more productive, not to mention improving the likelihood your QB will last an entire season.



Games in the NFL now are won by your ability pass and stop the pass.

#10 vincec

vincec

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,823 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostRubes, on 19 April 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

I think I'll go out on a limb here and say that if the Bills pick Landry at #8, this entire board will implode.
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

#11 Green Lightning

Green Lightning

    Mr. Peanut

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,939 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

Enough of this guard crap. Draft a damn quarterback at #8 and end this QB vacuum. If he doesn't work out, do it again next year. If that doesn't work,  do it again in 2015.

#12 hmsmystic

hmsmystic

    Practice Squad

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 106 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

Can't imagine a scenario where Buffalo drafts a lineman in the top 10 with Buddy.  He has proven he does not put a premium (salary wise) in the line, declining to pay up for Peters, Bell and Levitre.
Why draft someone we won't want to resign after their rookie contract expires?

#13 bowery4

bowery4

    "‘Chance favors the prepared mind‘’

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,607 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:07 PM

View Posthmsmystic, on 19 April 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Can't imagine a scenario where Buffalo drafts a lineman in the top 10 with Buddy.  He has proven he does not put a premium (salary wise) in the line, declining to pay up for Peters, Bell and Levitre.
Why draft someone we won't want to resign after their rookie contract expires?
Ah finally someone said it and it is true! I sort of agree with the FO in this case as well. Although we stole our LT last year and we will resign him if he is as good as many think he will be.

#14 Ramius

Ramius

    Don't Tread on Me

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,423 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:16 PM

Sorry, no thanks. The days of "monster" O-lines being a key to success are long gone. Fat guys don't win games. No point to go chubby chasing at #8.

Take a guy who can pass, catch a pass, or stop the pass.

Edited by Ramius, 19 April 2013 - 10:16 PM.


#15 Dr. Trooth

Dr. Trooth

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,205 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

Folks gotta realize that tje offense is gonna be up tempo and in the no huddle for many series a game. Big offensive lineman are not gonna cut it.

#16 Mark80

Mark80

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 843 posts

Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

Every year after each Super Bowl, I can vividly remember thinking to myself either a) wow, what a performance by the LT, wouldn't have won that SB without him, or b) wow what a performance by that Guard, simply dominating, defense had no answer for him.  Oh wait...

#17 FeartheLosing

FeartheLosing

    Just awesome!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,635 posts

Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:09 AM

View PostRamius, on 19 April 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Sorry, no thanks. The days of "monster" O-lines being a key to success are long gone. Fat guys don't win games. No point to go chubby chasing at #8.

Take a guy who can pass, catch a pass, or stop the pass.
Yea right, just tell that to the 49ers with 3 #1 draft picks on their O line, Just look at their offense actually built thu the draft.  2012 roster FIVE, 1st rounders, TWO, 3rds, one 5th, and one 7th at FB. Plus the starting QB at the end of the season was a 2nd rounder.

That team has got to be the favorite to win the SB this year.


Ok you say, that might be a fluke.. then you look at the Super bowl winning team, the Baltimore Ravens starting roster 3 #1 draft picks on their O line also.  FOUR 1st rounders (QB the other) Three #2's, two #3's, and one 5th center Matt Birk.

The days of the big uglies will always be in style as it is the key to winning games. Build thru the trenches!! Protect the QB!! Make the running game work!!

#18 FeartheLosing

FeartheLosing

    Just awesome!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,635 posts

Posted 20 April 2013 - 01:20 AM

View PostDr. Trooth, on 19 April 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Folks gotta realize that tje offense is gonna be up tempo and in the no huddle for many series a game. Big offensive lineman are not gonna cut it.
Folks gotta realize that QB Joe Flacco had time to throw those deep drop 5-7 step passes to Anquan Bolden, and Torrey Smith BECAUSE of his O line.

LT Will Wolford 6'5'' 300 lbs, RT Howard "house" Ballard, 6'6'' 325lbs remember those two Buffalo Bills from the 90's. They ran the no huddle just fine as I recall.

View PostMark80, on 19 April 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Every year after each Super Bowl, I can vividly remember thinking to myself either a) wow, what a performance by the LT, wouldn't have won that SB without him, or b) wow what a performance by that Guard, simply dominating, defense had no answer for him.  Oh wait...
Get a grip guys, an O linemen might not be a sexy pick in the first round! But it sure will help win games, I'm 100% certain of that.

#19 Dibs

Dibs

    Myth Buster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,967 posts

Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:05 AM

View PostFeartheLosing, on 20 April 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Yea right, just tell that to the 49ers with 3 #1 draft picks on their O line, Just look at their offense actually built thu the draft.  2012 roster FIVE, 1st rounders, TWO, 3rds, one 5th, and one 7th at FB. Plus the starting QB at the end of the season was a 2nd rounder.

That team has got to be the favorite to win the SB this year.


Ok you say, that might be a fluke.. then you look at the Super bowl winning team, the Baltimore Ravens starting roster 3 #1 draft picks on their O line also.  FOUR 1st rounders (QB the other) Three #2's, two #3's, and one 5th center Matt Birk.

The days of the big uglies will always be in style as it is the key to winning games. Build thru the trenches!! Protect the QB!! Make the running game work!!

Though I think both examples you list(49ers & Ravens) support the concept that having a good OL is still important in today's game.....I think only one of those examples supports the concept of selecting OL with the #8 pick.

Listing the 49ers backs your point.  They spent three 1st round picks on the OL(who are all starting).....and they are a legitimate contender.

To list the Ravens however is perhaps counterproductive to the point as only one of their starting OLmen was drafted in the 1st round by them.  Their OL would better support the argument that you can find quality OLmen after the 1st round & via FA rather than the argument to support selecting one with the #8 pick.

#20 FeartheLosing

FeartheLosing

    Just awesome!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,635 posts

Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:55 AM

View PostDibs, on 20 April 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

Though I think both examples you list(49ers & Ravens) support the concept that having a good OL is still important in today's game.....I think only one of those examples supports the concept of selecting OL with the #8 pick.

Listing the 49ers backs your point.  They spent three 1st round picks on the OL(who are all starting).....and they are a legitimate contender.

To list the Ravens however is perhaps counterproductive to the point as only one of their starting OLmen was drafted in the 1st round by them.  Their OL would better support the argument that you can find quality OLmen after the 1st round & via FA rather than the argument to support selecting one with the #8 pick.
Thank you. They had two #1 draft picks on the O line, Michael Oher and Bryant Mckinnie,  who was drafted by the Vikings. You know McKinnie the #7th overall pick in the 2002 draft. the one where the Bills selected Mike D Williams with the 4th overall pick.

BTW, how did that OT at the 7th overall pick workout for the Vikings, played 8 years for them at LT and made the pro bowl, 2 years with the Ravens and a super bowl ring....hrmmm.

The Ravens have 6x pro bowl center Matt Birk also from the Vikings. I had forgotten that 7 year vet, and #1 pick OG Ben Grubbs left as a FA to the NO Saints.

The Ravens starting O line for 2012 McKinnie 1st, Yanda 3rd, Birk 6th, Williams 2nd, Oher 1st. Two first rounders at OT makes for an excellent argument



The difference between the Buffalo Bills and the Baltimore Ravens is the latter is able to distinguish top talent in the later rounds as opposed to the Bills who are lucky to pull an average player out of the early first round pick. Thus the Ravens normally usually haven't drafted O linemen in the first round. Besides recently drafting Michael Oher / Benn Grubbs in the first round of course.

Anyway, that was kinda the reason why I think the Bills should use that #8 on an O linemen. Not to worry tho, as another poster pointed out Buddy Nix will probably draft a DB or QB at #8.

Edited by FeartheLosing, 20 April 2013 - 12:42 PM.