Jump to content


In a OL heavy draft why no OL?


  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#1 910BillsFan

910BillsFan

    UDFA

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 65 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:51 AM

Let me preface this post by saying that I was very excited about this draft. Big fan of EJ and Woods also liked the Hopkins pick and the UDFA pick up in Rodgers.

My question is with Barrett Jones from Alabama slipping why not grab him? Being an All-American at 3 different o-line positions how could we pass him up? Could fill almost any hole we have due to losing Levitre or just an injury (Wood) next season!

Only disappointing part of the weekend for me

#2 bowery4

bowery4

    "‘Chance favors the prepared mind‘’

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,314 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:04 AM

Injury history? I liked him too, so it is a question. I tend to think, they think they can pick up and play guys who come from PSs or are waived (actually Buddy is good at doing that, IMO) Plus they do have depth that they can plug in from other positions. Coach was an oline man, a oline coach and he has an excellent oline coach on staff. Seems they just aren't that worried about it. The biggest drop off I can see with this group coming from last year would be because of the lack of Fitz's quick release, they may give up more sacks.

#3 ganesh

ganesh

    You can do things on a football field that are severely illegal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,818 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:09 AM

I was disappointed too.  We had a hole at LG and also need a backup Center and we did not even attempt to fill those positions.

#4 Big C

Big C

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,175 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:13 AM

FO feels that our O-Line is fine. Marrone being an OL guy, maybe he's seeing things we don't right now. I sure hope so, at least. I was expecting us to grab a guard at some point later. Right now I'm not that worried because we killed it this year.

#5 billsfan89

billsfan89

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,970 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:39 AM

I don't think its an O-Line Heavy draft because there were so many great O-linemen. I think it was more so that it was a good draft for O-lineman and a terrible draft for QB's and other positions which vaulted a lot of O-lineman up the board. I would have liked for them to take a flyer on a Guard in the 5th but I guess they will scour the waiver wire and free agents for a guard. Brandon Moore is still out there wouldn't be a bad stop gap.

#6 FeartheLosing

FeartheLosing

    I have the check right here!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,111 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:14 AM

View Postganesh, on 28 April 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I was disappointed too.  We had a hole at LG and also need a backup Center and we did not even attempt to fill those positions.
Buddy Nix says the O line is fine. He will find more band-aids on the waiver wire, no doubt.

This line will really be exposed when Kolb, TJ or the rooke start playing for real. I feel bad for Marrone in trusting Nix.

BTW, If EJ fails to impress, who do you think will get the blame?

View Postbillsfan89, on 28 April 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

I don't think its an O-Line Heavy draft because there were so many great O-linemen. I think it was more so that it was a good draft for O-lineman and a terrible draft for QB's and other positions which vaulted a lot of O-lineman up the board. I would have liked for them to take a flyer on a Guard in the 5th but I guess they will scour the waiver wire and free agents for a guard. Brandon Moore is still out there wouldn't be a bad stop gap.
It was a great draft for the O line. From the top 3 OT's Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson to the top 2 OG's Warmack, Cooper. 3 of the first 4 picks were LT's, and 5 of the top 10 were O line.

Then OT Justin Pugh to the Giants to OT DJ Fluker to the Chargers.

The Bills were looking the other way this year, and had their eyes focused on a weak QB class. Then they panicked and took a QB in the first at 16 because they thought every other team wanted him. When in fact Buffalo was the only team.

Kinda sad really, but that has been the identity of this franchise for 13 years.

#7 nucci

nucci

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,874 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 04:21 AM

Zack Chibane, G, Syracuse  signed as an UDFA, plus there are players drafted from last year that were on the practice squad. I think they feel they have a LG already on the roster.

View PostFeartheLosing, on 28 April 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

Buddy Nix says the O line is fine. He will find more band-aids on the waiver wire, no doubt.

This line will really be exposed when Kolb, TJ or the rooke start playing for real. I feel bad for Marrone in trusting Nix.

BTW, If EJ fails to impress, who do you think will get the blame?

It was a great draft for the O line. From the top 3 OT's Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson to the top 2 OG's Warmack, Cooper. 3 of the first 4 picks were LT's, and 5 of the top 10 were O line.

Then OT Justin Pugh to the Giants to OT DJ Fluker to the Chargers.

The Bills were looking the other way this year, and had their eyes focused on a weak QB class. Then they panicked and took a QB in the first at 16 because they thought every other team wanted him. When in fact Buffalo was the only team.

Kinda sad really, but that has been the identity of this franchise for 13 years.
Oh man, really? Another one saying they panicked? You guys are killing me. They traded down 8 spots, picked up a 2nd and 7th round pick and chose the QB they wanted. That is the complete opposite of panic. And you have no idea what they thought.

#8 ganesh

ganesh

    You can do things on a football field that are severely illegal

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,818 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:08 AM

View Postnucci, on 28 April 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Zack Chibane, G, Syracuse  signed as an UDFA, plus there are players drafted from last year that were on the practice squad. I think they feel they have a LG already on the roster.


Oh man, really? Another one saying they panicked? You guys are killing me. They traded down 8 spots, picked up a 2nd and 7th round pick and chose the QB they wanted. That is the complete opposite of panic. And you have no idea what they thought.

To be fair to FearTheLosing, all he is saying is that the Bills have the Penchant for doing the opposite of the strength of the draft.  Last year in a QB rich draft, they did not draft a QB and this year in a OL rich draft, they have completely ignored the line.   When many of the teams draft to the strength of the draft,  why would the Bills try to do the opposite.  
Again these are not my views:  I do like the EJ drafting  and I am mystified that they ignored the OL in spite of losing a starter.

#9 nucci

nucci

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,874 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:14 AM

View Postganesh, on 28 April 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

To be fair to FearTheLosing, all he is saying is that the Bills have the Penchant for doing the opposite of the strength of the draft.  Last year in a QB rich draft, they did not draft a QB and this year in a OL rich draft, they have completely ignored the line.   When many of the teams draft to the strength of the draft,  why would the Bills try to do the opposite.  
Again these are not my views:  I do like the EJ drafting  and I am mystified that they ignored the OL in spite of losing a starter.
Ok, I understand but you rarely see guards drafted high. maybe one or two a year. I think the Bills take linemen late in draft and give them a year to learn. Glenn, Hairston, and Wood were chosen fairly high so I don't think they completely ignore it. We desperately needed WRs, DBs and LBs this year.
I will say I am tired of hearing many say the Bills panicked.

Edited by nucci, 28 April 2013 - 05:16 AM.


#10 Chandler#81

Chandler#81

    Veteran

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,115 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:42 AM

2 UDFA OL so far.

Quitcherbitchin

#11 Whitewalker Merriman

Whitewalker Merriman

    Professional Kool-Aid Drinker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,452 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:14 AM

View PostChandler#81, on 28 April 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

2 UDFA OL so far.

Quitcherbitchin

True that. I also seem to remember someone posting a list of the O-linemen we had between people on IR and practice squad and it was enormous. Couple that with the UDFA's that the Bills obviously had eyes on, take into account Sanders coming back and I think we'll be fine...even if we're not quite as good as last year. But do keep in mind that we are now an offense built for speed, so that may impact the type of line we're trying to build.

Edited by Whitewalker Merriman, 28 April 2013 - 06:15 AM.


#12 Max Fischer

Max Fischer

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,457 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:31 AM

View PostFeartheLosing, on 28 April 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

Buddy Nix says the O line is fine. He will find more band-aids on the waiver wire, no doubt.

This line will really be exposed when Kolb, TJ or the rooke start playing for real. I feel bad for Marrone in trusting Nix.

BTW, If EJ fails to impress, who do you think will get the blame?

It was a great draft for the O line. From the top 3 OT's Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson to the top 2 OG's Warmack, Cooper. 3 of the first 4 picks were LT's, and 5 of the top 10 were O line.

Then OT Justin Pugh to the Giants to OT DJ Fluker to the Chargers.

The Bills were looking the other way this year, and had their eyes focused on a weak QB class. Then they panicked and took a QB in the first at 16 because they thought every other team wanted him. When in fact Buffalo was the only team.

Kinda sad really, but that has been the identity of this franchise for 13 years.

Oh, Good Lord.  You "feel bad for Marrone in trusting Nix"?  What fantasy land do some of you people live in?  

You don't think grown men with years of football experience cannot make their own reasoned analysis of their OL needs?   Don't you think it's possible that the entire coaching staff personally evaluated each of the team's own lineman to determine who could fill each position?  

"So, Mr. Nix, what about a lineman here?"  

"Oh, don't you worry yourself, young man, go play with your new QB."

"OK, thanks Mr. Nix, sorry for bothering you."

This post and others like are ludicrous and I'd be embarrassed if any of the staff were to read this laughing out loud and shaking their heads.  I really wonder what some of you do for a living.

#13 Fires

Fires

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 474 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:43 AM

I agree they must like what we already have. Did pick up that one guy from Syracuse. Maroone would have some insight on him.

#14 Hopeful

Hopeful

    clearing the swamp

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:54 AM

View Post910BillsFan, on 28 April 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

Let me preface this post by saying that I was very excited about this draft. Big fan of EJ and Woods also liked the Hopkins pick and the UDFA pick up in Rodgers.

My question is with Barrett Jones from Alabama slipping why not grab him? Being an All-American at 3 different o-line positions how could we pass him up? Could fill almost any hole we have due to losing Levitre or just an injury (Wood) next season!

Only disappointing part of the weekend for me

In the shoutbox last night someone (I think Damond Talbot, not sure) said the Bills were scared off by his Lisfranc injury.

Like an Achilles rupture, it is an injury that many players don't come back from and those that do, sometimes aren't what they were.  He played through it too at the end of his college career, which might not be the smartest thing from the perspective of long-term healing.  I don't think we're alone.  Keep in mind even in the 4th, 2 far less distinguished OLmen came off the board before Barrett.

On the other hand, the discipline and will of the player to work through the rehab have big effects on outcome, and everything says if an OLman can come back, Barrett has the discipline and will to be that man.

Time will tell if we'll be happier with Duke Preston or if this is a lost opportunity we'll regret.

#15 swnybillsfan

swnybillsfan

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,451 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:57 AM

View PostFires, on 28 April 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

I agree they must like what we already have. Did pick up that one guy from Syracuse. Maroone would have some insight on him.
i think that they are happy to start things off with the group they have. the coaches have not had a chance to really see what they have there, but as they go forward i'm confident that if they feel like we need more there, they will go out and get it somewhere. because really, what are we talking here, a new left guard? somebody will step up.

#16 Just in Atlanta

Just in Atlanta

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,957 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:04 AM

I was thinking the same thing, especially on that second WR pick.

But then I remember two years ago, everyone -- pundits and fans -- saying before the season our O line was terrible. Then it became one of the best in the league in terms of QB sacks and rush per yard. Last year wasn't too shabby either.

So we lost a top OG. I've got to think they have a plan to replace him.

#17 Hopeful

Hopeful

    clearing the swamp

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:16 AM

View PostFeartheLosing, on 28 April 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

It was a great draft for the O line. From the top 3 OT's Fisher, Joeckel, Johnson to the top 2 OG's Warmack, Cooper. 3 of the first 4 picks were LT's, and 5 of the top 10 were O line. Then OT Justin Pugh to the Giants to OT DJ Fluker to the Chargers.

The Bills were looking the other way this year, and had their eyes focused on a weak QB class. Then they panicked and took a QB in the first at 16 because they thought every other team wanted him. When in fact Buffalo was the only team.

The first paragraph doesn't address the point of the OP.  The same drafting behavior could be exhibited in a class with far-better-than-usual OL talent, or with lower than normal talent at other positions that normally draft high (QB, DL, DB).

I would be interested in any evidence that justifies the opinion that the Bills paniced in drafting Manuel at 16.  I would say there was no panic - they had decided that EJ was their guy, they took a calculated risk in trading down from 8 to 16 for more picks, and they pulled the trigger.  In other QB-rich drafts, 3 or 4 QB have come off the board in the first round before that position(+/-4).  2012: Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, then Weedon at 22.
2011: Newton, Locker, Gabbert, then Ponder at 12.  2009: Stafford, Sanchez, then Freeman at 17.

Essentially the Bills drafted EJ Manuel, widely considered to be the best physical talent with intelligence and work ethic but raw football skills, at the same position as Weedon, Ponder, and Freeman.  That doesn't sound like "panic", that sounds like a reasonably rational assessment.  Panic woulda been if they didn't trade down and took him at 8.

Also want to know the evidence that "no one else wanted him".  The spread option is the "new thing" in the NFL, cognoscenti such as Greg Cosell assess EJ Manual as the only QB in this year's class that can run it, some physical metrics put Manuel near the Kaepernick level -- I think there's reasonable evidence that the Eagles and the Jets (both drafting ahead of the Bills in the 2nd)  were interested.  You'd have to see the Jets (and Eagles) draft board to know for sure who they had as their top QB and where they had him - no certainties both teams didn't have Manuel above Smith and Barkley.  Smith has gotten more press.  Both run a spread offense.  Reading carefully, many of the same scouting concerns about inconsistent throwing technique under center or under pressure, leading to inaccuracy apply to both guys, with Smith having the edge in ability to make multiple reads and Manuel having the edge as the more talented overall athlete.

#18 CSBill

CSBill

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,108 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:19 AM

Our starting LG is already on the roster (Snow, Brown, Sanders, Grant, and Chris Scott may be the wildcard, and I would not be surprised to see Hairston there either), we have a strong online, and pretty solid depth there already. Sure, we would have liked to get one of the top guys, but you only have so many picks.

#19 Hopeful

Hopeful

    clearing the swamp

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostBig C, on 28 April 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

FO feels that our O-Line is fine. Marrone being an OL guy, maybe he's seeing things we don't right now. I sure hope so, at least. I was expecting us to grab a guard at some point later. Right now I'm not that worried because we killed it this year.

This is one where I have a difficult time trusting the FO, to be sure.  FO thought O-line would be great after RT hole was filled with Cornell Green and Demetress Bell on the other side playing LT

On the other hand, I think we even got a couple months until training camp starts so let's wait and see.

#20 8and8Forever

8and8Forever

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,266 posts

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:51 AM

View Postnucci, on 28 April 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Zack Chibane, G, Syracuse  signed as an UDFA, plus there are players drafted from last year that were on the practice squad. I think they feel they have a LG already on the roster.


Oh man, really? Another one saying they panicked? You guys are killing me. They traded down 8 spots, picked up a 2nd and 7th round pick and chose the QB they wanted. That is the complete opposite of panic. And you have no idea what they thought.
Hindsight IS 20-20 , but yes they could have gotten EJ in the second and taken OL in the first.   so yes we can monday morning QB all day, but they could have waited.  but then you miss on Woods or the crazy LB guy.  we need WR and crazy LB guys more than OL this year.