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EJ's Florida Game Lucky for Bills?


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#1 Last Guy on the Bench

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:19 AM

I recently watched all FSU's offensive possessions in the infamous 2012 Florida game. Full game is here:



It wasn't fun, but it didn't bum me out as much as I thought it would. EJ made some bad decisions, but it felt like one of those games that just didn't go well and kind of snowballed on him. Used to happen to Kelly at least once a season. Happens to almost every QB. Also, I think I read somewhere that he had hurt himself the week before, so wasn't playing at 100%.

On the plus side, he hung in there mentally. The team came back. EJ's late fumble that killed their chances was not actually careless IMO. He got his clock cleaned. Looked to me like he had the ball pretty securely, but when he got hit his body went limp and he just let go of it. He lay on the ground without moving for a little bit. It was a KO or something close.

On another board, a poster mentioned running into Bill Polian at a golf tournament on Friday. The poster said he chatted with Polian for a while about the Bills' draft, and Polian apparently said he had EJ at the top of his rankings until he watched the Florida tape. That seems like a lot of weight to give one game, especially when the guy has played well against some other good teams and in bowl games. If other NFL teams over-weighted that Florida game, and if, as I suspect, it was just one of those days and not indicative or EJ's overall ability or mental toughness, it might have been the best thing that's happened to the Bills in a long time. If EJ plays lights out in that game and they beat the number 4 team in the country, maybe he would have been wearing a KC, Oakland, Jax, or Philly jersey right now.

Just a thought.

Edited by Last Guy on the Bench, 06 May 2013 - 07:20 AM.


#2 mitchmurraydowntown

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:37 AM

Jimbo seemed to have had his issues during our 4 Superbowls as well.

Edited by mitchmurraydowntown, 06 May 2013 - 07:37 AM.


#3 Last Guy on the Bench

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:39 AM

View Postmitchmurraydowntown, on 06 May 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Jimbo seemed to have had his issues during our 4 Superbowls as well.

OK, so two per year. :rolleyes:

Edited by Last Guy on the Bench, 06 May 2013 - 07:40 AM.


#4 John Cocktosten

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM

EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses.  He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense.  That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent.  That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.

#5 kdiggz

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:11 AM

I remember Luck sucking pretty bad against Oregon. Judging someone on one game is silly

#6 kdiggz

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:27 AM

Just watched the first half and I thought Manuel did well in the 2 min drill and our new kicker looks good!

#7 johnnywo

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:39 AM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses.  He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense.  That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent.  That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.

Let's hope you're wrong...All we've had here is QBs that can't win a game by themselves in the last 13 years.....GO BILLS!

#8 It's in My Blood

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses.  He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense.  That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent.  That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.

How you could possibly come to such a conclusion on EJ's future in the NFL is ridiculous. He hasn't even taken a snap yet @ this level, where he will be surrounded by more talent than he had at FSU.

#9 Last Guy on the Bench

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostIt, on 06 May 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

How you could possibly come to such a conclusion on EJ's future in the NFL is ridiculous. He hasn't even taken a snap yet @ this level, where he will be surrounded by more talent than he had at FSU.

Agreed. I never understand people who are so sure about the future of still-developing younger guys. It's a complete fantasy, masquerading as critical thinking, to imagine you can see players' futures clearly. The guys who spend their lives evaluating this stuff for a living are geniuses if they get it approximately sorta kinda right even 50% of the time.

#10 Mark80

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses.  He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense.  That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent.  That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.

You would do well to do some research on EJ's supporting offensive cast at FSU compared to that of Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Barkley, Bray, Smith, among others.  Considering where the rest of the offensive players (especially skill positions) are being selected by the NFL at the other schools compared to FSU, it becomes pretty apparent that EJ got the most out of what he had to work with regardless of the caliber of defenses he was supposedly playing against.  How many elite QBs have come out of the SEC lately playing against those tremendous defenses?  Not many.  That point is baseless.

#11 Lincoln Osiris

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

Two of those picks were on him for sure, the one on the sideline was on the receiver, I mean the guy totally just gave up on his route. The fumble to me didn't show him being that careless with the ball he definitely got knocked out, you could tell by the way his arm folded underneath him. I've seen Fitzpatrick have way worse games than this jmo

#12 Ryan L Billz

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:59 AM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses.  He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense.  That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent.  That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.

Carry this label with you for the next three years....maybe it will be a good look? Maybe you'll look like a shmo for your thorough EJ trashing through several threads.....John "EJ's a bust, I called it"Cocktosen.

I'm all for some thorough hating but I see zero reasons for EJ to recieve any scorn....he hasn't won/lost a game for us yet.....

IMO fsu play calling wasn't necessarily the air raid type offense.....let's give it 5 or so games to write EJ's first chapter.

#13 iommi

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses.  He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense.  That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent.  That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.

Let's play devil's advocate here. A list of quarterback's who have played in Super bowl's and their subsequent supposed powerhouse college programs. I hate sweeping opinions, can't you wait for the guy to step on the field with a scheme suited to his skills, an injection of speed, and talent before you call the guy a bust.

Joe Flacco - Delaware

Colin Kaepernick - Nevada

Ben Roethlisberger - Miami (OH)

Kurt Warner - Northern Iowa

Matt Hasselback - Boston College

Jake Delhomme - Louisiana - Lafayette

Rich Gannon - Delaware

Kerry Collins - Penn State

Edited by iommi, 06 May 2013 - 10:10 AM.


#14 John Cocktosten

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

View PostMark80, on 06 May 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

You would do well to do some research on EJ's supporting offensive cast at FSU compared to that of Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Barkley, Bray, Smith, among others.  Considering where the rest of the offensive players (especially skill positions) are being selected by the NFL at the other schools compared to FSU, it becomes pretty apparent that EJ got the most out of what he had to work with regardless of the caliber of defenses he was supposedly playing against.  How many elite QBs have come out of the SEC lately playing against those tremendous defenses?  Not many.  That point is baseless.

I really don't have to do research because I know CFB inside and out.  I know that FSU recruits as well as any other team and hasn't had a class outside of the top 10 in 5-6 years.  They have a ridiculous group of of 5* running back, Wr's and a top TE.  His first team Oline wasn't bad either although they do lack depth.  Their defense is absurdly loaded with 5* depth at every position which gives the offense an advantage in every single game.  They have the best recruiting base in the country and that's not even arguable.  SO you should do some research.  

Not sure why you are bringing up the SEC.  The ACC has been particularly terrible the last few years and that's where EJ has looked his best.  When he has to play against teams OOC like Florida or Oklahoma, he doesn't look quite as good.  Go back and run the numbers.  I don't have to because I actually watched the games.

#15 Dorkington

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

So, basically, mistake prone and not clutch.

He should fit right in. :bag:

#16 eball

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

I really don't have to do research because I know CFB inside and out.  I know that FSU recruits as well as any other team and hasn't had a class outside of the top 10 in 5-6 years.  They have a ridiculous group of of 5* running back, Wr's and a top TE.  His first team Oline wasn't bad either although they do lack depth.  Their defense is absurdly loaded with 5* depth at every position which gives the offense an advantage in every single game.  They have the best recruiting base in the country and that's not even arguable.  SO you should do some research.  

Not sure why you are bringing up the SEC.  The ACC has been particularly terrible the last few years and that's where EJ has looked his best.  When he has to play against teams OOC like Florida or Oklahoma, he doesn't look quite as good.  Go back and run the numbers.  I don't have to because I actually watched the games.

That "absurdly loaded" defense sure shat themselves against Florida, didn't they?  They also blew a 16-0 hafltime lead against NC State.  I guess none of the FSU guys on defense will be good pros?

#17 John Cocktosten

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:14 AM

View PostRyan L Billz, on 06 May 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Carry this label with you for the next three years....maybe it will be a good look? Maybe you'll look like a shmo for your thorough EJ trashing through several threads.....John "EJ's a bust, I called it"Cocktosen.

I'm all for some thorough hating but I see zero reasons for EJ to recieve any scorn....he hasn't won/lost a game for us yet.....

IMO fsu play calling wasn't necessarily the air raid type offense.....let's give it 5 or so games to write EJ's first chapter.

Can I ask you a question- can I not like the pick?  Can I have an educated point of view just because you don't agree with it?  I'm not concerned about being right, I'm concerned that the Bills made the wrong choice again.  I won't be rooting against him but my expectations of him are far from the anointed savior that so many, who haven't seen him in a game outside of youtube, think he is.  

I agree with you about the play calling.  Jimbo is a known control freak with his players and coaches (mass exodus).  That being said, Jimbo didn't turn the ball over 4 times in the biggest game of the season at home.  Jimbo didn't fail to log a single point against NCst in the second half.  EJ has never been able to do it by himself.  Just facts.

#18 iommi

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:17 AM

You don't have to like the pick, but your essentially trolling. The guy has yet to set foot into rookie minicamp, give the guy the chance to get acclimated to a new system and pro style weapons and play an NFL game prior to calling his demise.

#19 thebandit27

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:21 AM

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

EJ made a living off of terrible ACC defenses.  He hit a brick wall when he had to play a top defense.  That game was huge for FSU and he failed despite playing at home and having a ton of offensive talent.  That's EJ though, he's good enough to fit in but he will never win a game by himself.

Nothing like a poster that doesn't know what they're talking about.

EJ can't play a top defense, huh?  How convenient, since the best Ds they faced all year in 2012 were:

- Virginia Tech (18th in FBS); EJ was 25-42 for 326 with 3 TDs and 1 INT in a 28-22 win
- Maryland (21st in FBS); EJ was 74% passing with 2 TDs in a 41-14 rout

Or maybe you were referring to 2011...when the best Ds EJ faced were the following:

- Oklahoma (39th in FBS); here's one where he struggled, going only 13 of 19 with 2 INTs in a tough loss
- Miami (22nd in FBS); 17-23 (74%) with 1 TD in a 4-point win
- Virginia (34th in FBS); 18-31 with 1 TD in a 1-point loss
- Florida (25th in FBS); this was a lousy game by both teams...EJ was only 6 of 13 for 65 yds 0 TD/0 Ints, but FSU did win the game 21-7
- Notre Dame (28th in FBS); 20-31 for 249 with 2 TDs in an 18-14 bowl game victory

So, yeah, you're wrong.

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

I really don't have to do research because I know CFB inside and out.  I know that FSU recruits as well as any other team and hasn't had a class outside of the top 10 in 5-6 years.  They have a ridiculous group of of 5* running back, Wr's and a top TE.  His first team Oline wasn't bad either although they do lack depth.  Their defense is absurdly loaded with 5* depth at every position which gives the offense an advantage in every single game.  They have the best recruiting base in the country and that's not even arguable.  SO you should do some research.  

Not sure why you are bringing up the SEC.  The ACC has been particularly terrible the last few years and that's where EJ has looked his best.  When he has to play against teams OOC like Florida or Oklahoma, he doesn't look quite as good.  Go back and run the numbers.  I don't have to because I actually watched the games.

In light of the evidence that proves you completely wrong, you may want to retract this statement.

View PostJohn Cocktosten, on 06 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Can I ask you a question- can I not like the pick?  Can I have an educated point of view just because you don't agree with it?  I'm not concerned about being right, I'm concerned that the Bills made the wrong choice again.  I won't be rooting against him but my expectations of him are far from the anointed savior that so many, who haven't seen him in a game outside of youtube, think he is.  

I agree with you about the play calling.  Jimbo is a known control freak with his players and coaches (mass exodus).  That being said, Jimbo didn't turn the ball over 4 times in the biggest game of the season at home.  Jimbo didn't fail to log a single point against NCst in the second half.  EJ has never been able to do it by himself.  Just facts.

Of course you can not like the pick, just don't lie and we won't have an issue.

#20 John Cocktosten

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:23 AM

View Posteball, on 06 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

That "absurdly loaded" defense sure shat themselves against Florida, didn't they?  They also blew a 16-0 hafltime lead against NC State.  I guess none of the FSU guys on defense will be good pros?

Yeah it was absurdly loaded and FSU would've lost to Va Tech and Ga Tech if it wasn't for the D.  Did you see how many players were taken?  If B Jenkins and Carridine don't get hurt, they might have had 3 DE's go in the first round with three 5 Star backups.  Christain Jones and Joyner were second round locks who stayed in college as well.  Not to mention T Jurnigan who will be a first rounder but is a true soph.  Oh and Rhoades....so I guess they were loaded.  

The defense didn't blow that game if you actually watched.  An offense should be able to score more than 16 on a terrible defense.  At least NC St had a decent QB.  Teams like Miami, UNC and Tenn put up at least 35 on NCst.  Hell Clemson almost scored 70 I think.  So yeah, the defense did enough.  the EJ led offense let them down that game.

View Postiommi, on 06 May 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

You don't have to like the pick, but your essentially trolling. The guy has yet to set foot into rookie minicamp, give the guy the chance to get acclimated to a new system and pro style weapons and play an NFL game prior to calling his demise.

*you're.....This is trolling.

I'm expressing my opinion.  I didn't like Tebow, Sanchez or Leinart either.  Was that trolling?