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Doug Marrone- Best Hope in a Bills Coach Since Chuck Knox?


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#1 jethro_tull

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

Not since 1982 when Chuck Knox could not negotiate a new contract with the Bills and left to become the Seahawk's head coach have the Bills had a head coach who was not fired by previous teams or proven not to be NFL head coaching material.  
It could possibly be argued that Mike Mularkey is NFL head coaching material-  clinging to his position with the Jaguars- but with a .333 career record and coming off a 2 and 14 season- he is in the margin.  
That's 31 years since such a hire.  

1983- 1985 Kay Stephenson.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
1985- 1986 Hank Bullough.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
1986- 1997 Marv Levy.  Fired by Kansas City before joining the Bills.
1998- 2000 Wade Phillips.  Fired by Denver before joining the Bills.
2001- 2003 Greg Williams.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
2004- 2005 Mike Mularkey.  Did not re-sign with the Bills, poor head coaching record.
2006- 2009 Dick Jauron.  Fired by Chicago before joining the Bills.
2010- 2012 Chan Gailey.  Fired by Dallas and Georgia Tech en route to the Bills.

Granted Marv and Wade are very good NFL coaches but an argument could be made that they underachieved with the player talent they had available to them and miss out on the highest level of NFL coaching hierarchy.  But the rest clearly were poor NFL head coaches.  Also granted that there is no guarantee that Doug Marrone will prove to be a successful NFL head coach.  
However, it is refreshing and encouraging for the Bills to be off to a new start with a successful college level head coach with NFL experience who has written his own ticket to date.

Edited by jethro_tull, 18 May 2013 - 11:03 AM.


#2 Best Player Available

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:12 AM

2013-present  Doug Marrone. Zero experience as a NFL head coach. 25-25 in a weak college conference.

How in any way does does this hire remotely resemble Chuck Knox?

#3 BillsWatch

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:12 AM

Mike Mularkey was fired by Jacksonville.

And being let go is not proof that coach is not NFL material except in your mind.

#4 jethro_tull

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostBillsWatch, on 18 May 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Mike Mularkey was fired by Jacksonville.

See!

And being let go is not proof that coach is not NFL material except in your mind.

Wow!
Did it say in the article that being fired is proof that they are bad coaches?
It does say that the rest of the Bills coaches were proven to not be head coaching material by the NFL judge and jury.

#5 Jy Re

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

I'd say most coaches have been with > 1 team. Don Shula, Bill Parsells... Vince Lombardi fer cryin out loud.

#6 Robert Paulson

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

coaches are hired to be fired

#7 KeisterHollow

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:22 PM

The first Bills head coach to win a Super Bowl will no doubt be considered the BEST head coach in Bills History.  The difference between Doug Marrone and all the other head coaches in Bills history thus far: Doug has yet to prove he's incapable of such a feat; likewise, the reverse is true.  We'll have to wait and see, but I know I like Doug Marrone's attitude and coaching staff, and I like the players we have on this roster, and the schemes we're purported to run.  So far, I'm happier with this hire than with any hire for head coach I can remember.  We'll see where it goes.

#8 jethro_tull

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

View PostJÂy RÛßeÒ, on 18 May 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

I'd say most coaches have been with > 1 team. Don Shula, Bill Parsells... Vince Lombardi fer cryin out loud.
don't disagree.  however, for every (1) fired coach that goes on to be a success, how many do not?

The point is that except for Marv and Wade the Bills coahes during the last 31 years have proven to be unacceptable by NFL standards.

#9 BADOLBEELZ

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:03 PM

View Postjethro_tull, on 18 May 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Not since 1982 when Chuck Knox could not negotiate a new contract with the Bills and left to become the Seahawk's head coach have the Bills had a head coach who was not fired by previous teams or proven not to be NFL head coaching material.  
It could possibly be argued that Mike Mularkey is NFL head coaching material-  clinging to his position with the Jaguars- but with a .333 career record and coming off a 2 and 14 season- he is in the margin.  
That's 31 years since such a hire.  

1983- 1985 Kay Stephenson.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
1985- 1986 Hank Bullough.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
1986- 1997 Marv Levy.  Fired by Kansas City before joining the Bills.
1998- 2000 Wade Phillips.  Fired by Denver before joining the Bills.
2001- 2003 Greg Williams.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
2004- 2005 Mike Mularkey.  Did not re-sign with the Bills, poor head coaching record.
2006- 2009 Dick Jauron.  Fired by Chicago before joining the Bills.
2010- 2012 Chan Gailey.  Fired by Dallas and Georgia Tech en route to the Bills.

Granted Marv and Wade are very good NFL coaches but an argument could be made that they underachieved with the player talent they had available to them and miss out on the highest level of NFL coaching hierarchy.  But the rest clearly were poor NFL head coaches.  Also granted that there is no guarantee that Doug Marrone will prove to be a successful NFL head coach.  
However, it is refreshing and encouraging for the Bills to be off to a new start with a successful college level head coach with NFL experience who has written his own ticket to date.

I agree that he is the most promising head coach they have hired since Knox.  The two coaches they have hired who have actually had winning records over that time came with baggage.  Levy obviously had been a losing coach in KC and was extremely cold product when he was hired.  Ice cold.  Phillips came with a reputation as a good football coach but not detailed oriented enough in his stint in Denver.   That criticism remained true to form thru Buffalo and later Dallas.

You were obviously wrong about Mularkey still being employed by Jax,   but he was also actually on the hotseat as the OC in Pittsburgh when Donahoe came to his rescue.  Gregg Williams was a middle-of-the road candidate with no HC experience so his hiring was more of a leap of faith by Donahoe.  In all fairness, Donahoe thought hiring coaches was easy.  When he had to interview Chuck Knoll's replacement his choices were Dennis Green,  Mike Holmgren or Bill Cowher.  All 3 of those guys basically took there teams to the playoffs every year for the next 7-8 so there was no wrong choice in that instance.

Jauron and Gailey couldn't have been much less promising.  I think Marrone's success at Syracuse is a bit more modest than his celebrators do.......but he has positive experience as a HC,  he appears to have the attention and respect of players,  he is reportedly very detail oriented and he hired a very hot prospect to coach the side of the ball he is less qualified at, defense.  All things point to the Bills actually not being at a coaching disadvantage most weeks for the first time in a very, very long time.

#10 JimBob2232

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

Bellicheck was fired.  It happens.  Alot.

#11 Alphadawg7

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

View Postjethro_tull, on 18 May 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Not since 1982 when Chuck Knox could not negotiate a new contract with the Bills and left to become the Seahawk's head coach have the Bills had a head coach who was not fired by previous teams or proven not to be NFL head coaching material.  
It could possibly be argued that Mike Mularkey is NFL head coaching material-  clinging to his position with the Jaguars- but with a .333 career record and coming off a 2 and 14 season- he is in the margin.  
That's 31 years since such a hire.  

1983- 1985 Kay Stephenson.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
1985- 1986 Hank Bullough.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
1986- 1997 Marv Levy.  Fired by Kansas City before joining the Bills.
1998- 2000 Wade Phillips.  Fired by Denver before joining the Bills.
2001- 2003 Greg Williams.  Did not return as an NFL head coach.
2004- 2005 Mike Mularkey.  Did not re-sign with the Bills, poor head coaching record.
2006- 2009 Dick Jauron.  Fired by Chicago before joining the Bills.
2010- 2012 Chan Gailey.  Fired by Dallas and Georgia Tech en route to the Bills.

Granted Marv and Wade are very good NFL coaches but an argument could be made that they underachieved with the player talent they had available to them and miss out on the highest level of NFL coaching hierarchy.  But the rest clearly were poor NFL head coaches.  Also granted that there is no guarantee that Doug Marrone will prove to be a successful NFL head coach.  
However, it is refreshing and encouraging for the Bills to be off to a new start with a successful college level head coach with NFL experience who has written his own ticket to date.

I totally agree that Marrone right now is a very promising coach and I am truly excited about him.  I admit, he was not my first choice, nor was I initially excited about him, but that was also because I did not know that much about him.  I have been THOROUGHLY impressed with him so far, his hires, what he is doing with the culture, how he conducts practice, etc etc.  This is the most excited about a coach, and overall new staff, I think I have ever been the hey days of the early 90's.  I am also equally as excited about Pettine and even Hackett.  I know its early still, by I am very optimistic not only about our future, but this up coming season.  If we can get even just stable QB play...doesn't have to be great, just stable, I think this team makes the playoffs.  I love the new weapons on offense and I think we finally have a staff that USE the weapons we have.  I also think this defense will make a MAJOR turn around this year under Pettine and that Kiko will challenge for DROY.  

View PostBest Player Available, on 18 May 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

2013-present  Doug Marrone. Zero experience as a NFL head coach. 25-25 in a weak college conference.

How in any way does does this hire remotely resemble Chuck Knox?

A) I think he is just citing the optimism, not comparing the coaches resumes lol B) Going 25-25 at Syracuse was quite the turnaround from where they were when he took over the team.  He resurrected a dead football program and did a really good job, so much so, that he was one of the hottest coaching candidates among many teams this year, not just Buffalo.

#12 ektin

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:33 PM

Marrone is the only Bills coach who has never lost a game in the NFL.  I'm so excited!!!!!

#13 Peace Frog

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:38 PM

Tom Landry was fired.  He sucked.  <_<

#14 Tolstoy

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:34 PM

I like your optimism, I really do.  But consider these successful college coaches who failed miserably in the NFL:

1. Steve Spurrier (Redskins)
2. Mike Riley (Chargers)
3. Lou Holtz (Jets)
4. Nick Saban (Dolphins)
5. Pete Carroll (Patriots originally)
6. Butch Davis (Browns)
7. Bobby Petrino (Falcons)
8. Dennis Erickson (Seahawks)
9. Frank Kush (Colts)
10. Bud Wilkinson (Cardinals)
11. Dick MacPherson (Patriots)
12. Rich Brooks (Rams)

Courtesy of http://xfinity.comca...oachnflbusts/1/

#15 jethro_tull

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostJimBob2232, on 18 May 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Bellicheck was fired.  It happens.  Alot.

But- How many fired coaches have won a championship- answer- relatively few.

Of the (28) head coaches to win a Suoer Bowl, only (6) were fired as head coach by a previous NFL team

6 out of 28 is ~ 21 percent, or only (1) out of (5).

Which means the nearly EIGHTY PERCENT of coaches were not fired by a team before they won a championship.

#16 FeartheLosing

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:35 AM

Chuck Knox and Marv levy were a totally different class then any other Bills head coach, including Wade Phillips.  Knox was miles ahead of Levy.

Knox came to Buffalo from the LA Rams where he had just won five straight NFC west championships, and went to three consecutive NFC championship games. The Bills (Wilson) were desperate for a top HC to bring the fans back to the team as they hadn't beaten the Miami Dolphins once during the entire decade of the 70's.

One of the first things Knox did was to gut the Bills scouting staff and bring in his own men from the Rams,  Norm Pollom who was the director of player personnel. He laid the ground work for future top scouts.  While Marv levy's claim to fame was as HC of the CFL's Montreal Alouettes, with three grey cup appearances and winning two championships. Marv had a great GM in Bill Polian and a great scouting staff with John Butler / AJ Smith.

I can't help but think that if Knox had the talent on his teams that Marv had he would have won some super bowls. Knox was handicapped with a mental cripple in ex Bills O linemen Stew Barber as his GM.

Nobody, before or since Chuck Knox was hired has even come close to Knox's winning record, 12-2, 10-4, 12-2, 10-3-1,10-4, his won / loss record was 118-69 Rams- .714, BEFORE he was hired by the Buffalo Bills.



Doug Marrone is in his first stint as an NFL head coach and every Bills fan everywhere is hoping he in another Jim Harbaugh. A man who did an amazing job with the 49ers right out of college, 13-3 in his first season after taking over a 6-10 team, and this was during a strike shortened off season to boot.

I gotta say that looking at the history of college head coaches moving up to the NFL the chances Marrone fields a winning team are pretty slim. 12 successful college coaches that failed in the NFL.

This is Pete Carroll's 3rd stint as an NFL HC, he failed with both the Jets & Patriots before he became the current Seahawks HC.

Steve Spurrier, Redskins. Mike Riley, Chargers. Lou Holtz, Jets. Nick Saban, Dolphins. Butch Davis, Browns. Bobby Petrino, Falcons. Dennis Erickson Seahawks- 49ers. Frank Kush, Colts. Bud Wilkinson, Cardinals. Rich Brooks, Rams.

Look at the last successful HC at Syracuse who got the job as the Patriots HC in Dick MacPherson, fired after two seasons 8-24

Edited by FeartheLosing, 19 May 2013 - 08:01 AM.


#17 simpleman

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:23 AM

View Postektin, on 18 May 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Marrone is the only Bills coach who has never lost a game in the NFL.  I'm so excited!!!!!
:D

#18 jethro_tull

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

View PostFeartheLosing, on 19 May 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

Chuck Knox and Marv levy were a totally different class then any other Bills head coach, including Wade Phillips.  Knox was miles ahead of Levy.

Knox came to Buffalo from the LA Rams where he had just won five straight NFC west championships, and went to three consecutive NFC championship games. The Bills (Wilson) were desperate for a top HC to bring the fans back to the team as they hadn't beaten the Miami Dolphins once during the entire decade of the 70's.

One of the first things Knox did was to gut the Bills scouting staff and bring in his own men from the Rams,  Norm Pollom who was the director of player personnel. He laid the ground work for future top scouts.  While Marv levy's claim to fame was as HC of the CFL's Montreal Alouettes, with three grey cup appearances and winning two championships. Marv had a great GM in Bill Polian and a great scouting staff with John Butler / AJ Smith.

I can't help but think that if Knox had the talent on his teams that Marv had he would have won some super bowls. Knox was handicapped with a mental cripple in ex Bills O linemen Stew Barber as his GM.

Nobody, before or since Chuck Knox was hired has even come close to Knox's winning record, 12-2, 10-4, 12-2, 10-3-1,10-4, his won / loss record was 118-69 Rams- .714, BEFORE he was hired by the Buffalo Bills.



Doug Marrone is in his first stint as an NFL head coach and every Bills fan everywhere is hoping he in another Jim Harbaugh. A man who did an amazing job with the 49ers right out of college, 13-3 in his first season after taking over a 6-10 team, and this was during a strike shortened off season to boot.

I gotta say that looking at the history of college head coaches moving up to the NFL the chances Marrone fields a winning team are pretty slim. 12 successful college coaches that failed in the NFL.

This is Pete Carroll's 3rd stint as an NFL HC, he failed with both the Jets & Patriots before he became the current Seahawks HC.

Steve Spurrier, Redskins. Mike Riley, Chargers. Lou Holtz, Jets. Nick Saban, Dolphins. Butch Davis, Browns. Bobby Petrino, Falcons. Dennis Erickson Seahawks- 49ers. Frank Kush, Colts. Bud Wilkinson, Cardinals. Rich Brooks, Rams.

Look at the last successful HC at Syracuse who got the job as the Patriots HC in Dick MacPherson, fired after two seasons 8-24

How many college coaches that bombed in the NFL had prior NFL coaching experience?  I believe the odds of success increase when a successful college coach comes to the NFL having coached there before in some capacity.

Seems like there is no substitute for experience (for the most part) when it comes to repeatably successful NFL coaches and especially coaches who have won championships.

#19 first_and_ten

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostRobert Paulson, on 18 May 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

coaches are hired to be fired

Coaches are hired to win. No one hires a coach with a view to firing him. The hope is that when a coach is hired it turns out that he creates a legacy. The reality is that most coached end up being fired at some point. Maybe that's what you meant.

#20 Mango

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

View Postjethro_tull, on 18 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Wow!
Did it say in the article that being fired is proof that they are bad coaches?
It does say that the rest of the Bills coaches were proven to not be head coaching material by the NFL judge and jury.

Wade Phillips was a reasonable head coach. Had work before Buffalo, had work after.  If I had to bet money on it, he will get another HC gig before he retires.  The guy is a tremendous NFL Coordinator, with lots of experience.

I'm also a large proponent of the idea that Marv was a great(est) leader of men, who was a mediocre coach, with a HoF roster