Jump to content


Don't tell me that this league isn't all about talent!


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 Tipster19

Tipster19

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:10 AM

The days about justice, equality and fairness is all in the past and unfortunately that's where it will stay! I guess that that I'm just an old nostalgic dinosaur but the the double standards from time to time really galls me. I for one was always an advocate for "character" guys but it's sadly apparent to me that if I want my favorite team/franchise to be successful and competitive than I have to abandon my values and principles. What a sad state of affairs this world/league has come too! It's things like this that takes away the luster of football for me, either I have to change and accept or be left behind. If I have to compromise too many times, accepting Super Bowls and franchises on foreign soil, than the choice might be made for me and be an easier one to make, I'll choose to stay where I am!


http://profootballta...e-robert-sands/


#2 Nanker

Nanker

    Blls Nation Unite!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,573 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:18 AM

:blink:

#3 swnybillsfan

swnybillsfan

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,594 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:36 AM

it is definitely disheartening that talent is often times the be all, end all. however, i think that there is a balance between talent and character. in a perfect world, a team would establish a team of hard working, honest men of good character and from there bring in a few kids with troubled pasts in hopes that they could show them a better way. i know that it doesn't work this way, because ultimately, the choices that these young men make are their own. all i can do is support my team and be thankful that we do have guys like freddy jackson, cj spiller, kyle williams, hopefully jairus byrd, and a host of other people that fit the mold.

#4 SageAgainstTheMachine

SageAgainstTheMachine

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:38 AM

What?

#5 The Big Cat

The Big Cat

    Prowling.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,185 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:49 AM



#6 RealityCheck

RealityCheck

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,004 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:50 AM

Some people are tragically naive. Violence is what holds the world of man together. Without it, there would be no peace.

#7 Kirby Jackson

Kirby Jackson

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,371 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:50 AM

I will start by overlooking the uncomfortable racial undertone and address your point.  There is so much money at stake now that teams do not care if they have  the "clean cut quarterback with the letterman jacket on".  Teams are willing to take risks to secure championships and $$$.  I am not saying that teams will go to the Titus Young level (although Pac-Man is still around) but there is a line.  How much slack you have on that line will always depend on what kind of player you are.  If Calvin Johnson and David Snow had committed the exact same crime I can promise that Calvin is going to get a lot more slack than Snow.

That is just reality (and it is the same way in any business).  As a boss I have given more my top producers more room to screw up than the people at the bottom.  Why?  It is hard to replace production.  It is easy for me to replace a low end revenue producer but not a star.  Professional sports are a great example of this because of how high the dollar figures are.  All business works this way though.

#8 chris heff

chris heff

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,756 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:02 AM

View PostRealityCheck, on 12 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Some people are tragically naive. Violence is what holds the world of man together. Without it, there would be no peace.

View PostRealityCheck, on 12 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Some people are tragically naive. Violence is what holds the world of man together. Without it, there would be no peace.
Thank you Kierkegaard.

#9 Tipster19

Tipster19

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:10 AM

View PosttaC giB ehT, on 12 June 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:



Now THAT was funny.......and somewhat accurate! Nice find!


View PostKirby Jackson, on 12 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

I will start by overlooking the uncomfortable racial undertone and address your point.

Don't go there and try and pull the race card. That's not what I was saying at all, I don't care what color, race or creed is, I'm painting this with a much broader brush, I'm talking about character, principle and standards.

#10 Kirby Jackson

Kirby Jackson

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,371 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostTipster19, on 12 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Now THAT was funny.......and somewhat accurate! Nice find!




Don't go there and try and pull the race card. That's not what I was saying at all, I don't care what color, race or creed is, I'm painting this with a much broader brush, I'm talking about character, principle and standards.

I was talking more specifically about the "foreign soil" comment.  Who cares where the games are played if it is in the best interest of the game?

#11 over 20 years of fanhood

over 20 years of fanhood

    if at first you don't succeed, maybe failure is your style

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,256 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:25 AM

The insinuation that the two (takent and character) are mutually exclusive is misguided.  There are many, maybe even the vast majority are, players will loads of talent and character.  That's why I see in a number of the bills picks this year.  Goodwin, Manuel, maybe woods...  

There are cases where a character deficiency is made up for by a talent surplus but I also see cases of the opposite where lesser talented high character guys, David Nelson is one fine example, get a shot to play too.

I feel more then ever character issues are really affecting the draft.  Every year there are a few cases of really great college players not getting drafted or sliding to later rounds on character concerns.

It's gonna be ok man, it's gonna be ok.

#12 billsrcursed

billsrcursed

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,254 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostTipster19, on 12 June 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

The days about justice, equality and fairness is all in the past and unfortunately that's where it will stay! I guess that that I'm just an old nostalgic dinosaur but the the double standards from time to time really galls me. I for one was always an advocate for "character" guys but it's sadly apparent to me that if I want my favorite team/franchise to be successful and competitive than I have to abandon my values and principles. What a sad state of affairs this world/league has come too! It's things like this that takes away the luster of football for me, either I have to change and accept or be left behind. If I have to compromise too many times, accepting Super Bowls and franchises on foreign soil, than the choice might be made for me and be an easier one to make, I'll choose to stay where I am!


http://profootballta...e-robert-sands/

The only difference between today and say, 10-15 years ago, is social media. You're hearing more of what used to not get reported.

Guess you weren't a fan of the Bills team that went to 4 Superbowls? Some guys on that team would certainly make you blush...

Edited by billsrcursed, 12 June 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#13 MarkyMannn

MarkyMannn

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,138 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostKirby Jackson, on 12 June 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:



I was talking more specifically about the "foreign soil" comment.  Who cares where the games are played if it is in the best interest of the game?

If by foreign soil the OP means as an example Toronto Canada, where does race connect with that?

However too many people do use race as an excuse and smoke screen to absolve their behavior

#14 Ralph W.

Ralph W.

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 472 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:31 AM

Sounds like the guy wasn't going to really be playing anyway. Cut him loose and move on.

#15 CodeMonkey

CodeMonkey

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,776 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:43 AM

View PostTipster19, on 12 June 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

The days about justice, equality and fairness is all in the past and unfortunately that's where it will stay! I guess that that I'm just an old nostalgic dinosaur but the the double standards from time to time really galls me. I for one was always an advocate for "character" guys but it's sadly apparent to me that if I want my favorite team/franchise to be successful and competitive than I have to abandon my values and principles. What a sad state of affairs this world/league has come too! It's things like this that takes away the luster of football for me, either I have to change and accept or be left behind. If I have to compromise too many times, accepting Super Bowls and franchises on foreign soil, than the choice might be made for me and be an easier one to make, I'll choose to stay where I am!
This post strikes me a monumentally naive.  Say a team, for example, goes 13 years and counting without making the post season.  If it happens again the next season and the GM goes to the owner and says "yes we were out of the playoffs yet again, but we have all character guys with no one being arrested, or accused of beating their wives and that is the important thing".  Will the owner, or for that matter the teams fans, give that GM a pass or do they give him the boot?

Character and ability are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  But even so, you still have to remember that this is only football.  A game where big strong fast men run around and violently knock each other down.  There is no reason, in my opinion, to expect and certainly not demand that they live their lives by any ones measure other than their own.  As long as what they do does not affect their ability to perform, their lives are their lives.  And a team, and without any doubt the teams fans, have no right to expect any more than that.

For some reason there are people that put football on a pedestal and think everyone involved needs to be Mother Theresa off the field.  News flash, they don't.  And this silly (again in my opinion) expectation is what needs to change.

Edited by CodeMonkey, 12 June 2013 - 11:44 AM.


#16 Chandler#81

Chandler#81

    Veteran

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,280 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:06 PM

View PostCodeMonkey, on 12 June 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:


This post strikes me a monumentally naive.  Say a team, for example, goes 13 years and counting without making the post season.  If it happens again the next season and the GM goes to the owner and says "yes we were out of the playoffs yet again, but we have all character guys with no one being arrested, or accused of beating their wives and that is the important thing".  Will the owner, or for that matter the teams fans, give that GM a pass or do they give him the boot?

Character and ability are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  But even so, you still have to remember that this is only football.  A game where big strong fast men run around and violently knock each other down.  There is no reason, in my opinion, to expect and certainly not demand that they live their lives by any ones measure other than their own.  As long as what they do does not affect their ability to perform, their lives are their lives.  And a team, and without any doubt the teams fans, have no right to expect any more than that.

For some reason there are people that put football on a pedestal and think everyone involved needs to be Mother Theresa off the field.  News flash, they don't.  And this silly (again in my opinion) expectation is what needs to change.

Good luck trying to get the Commisioner to buy this view. He's taken a lot of flak for his zero tolerance of off field shenanigans and IMO, he is on a personal crusade that goes above the expectations of his position. Personally, I'm a big fan of his.

#17 FeartheLosing

FeartheLosing

    Just awesome!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,637 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

Al Davis and his Raiders used to bring in just about every "bad guy" stereotype in the league and give them a job, its what he did. Now Jerry Jones and his Cowbows seems to have picked up where Davis left off.

Still, very few humans on the planet are raised perfectly with no flaws, no mistakes, no bad history. Even the ones that grow up in that perfect environment seem to sometimes find trouble. The thing is, did they learn from their errors, mistakes and mature. Some do, some don't, and it is difficult to discern the difference sometimes with young people. The question is how many chances do you give them? I would suppose that would depend on the level of talent.

Ex NYGiant LBer great Lawrence Taylor once stated "hey man" i just got paid and I have 98k in my pocket... time to find some drugs and hookers! Which meant he was doing this during the season. Kinda why the league now drug tests players to protect the shield. Buffalo Bills Marshawn Lynch was a supposed mamas boy when drafted, and he managed to find trouble in a small market city like Buffalo. One more brush with the law and he is suspended for a year.

But then look back at the 90's Bills. Bill Polian had a fleet of undercover detectives following Bruce Smith around to make certain he stayed out of trouble. Again, one more brush and he would have been gone a year. What did he do? He pulled it together and became a hall of famer.


Anyway, the Buffalo Bills took a chance on a few players this year that have a somewhat bad history. Did those players learn from their mistakes, who really knows whats in their respective hearts. Point is, nobody is perfect. Its what they do after their mistakes that defines them.

#18 Kirby Jackson

Kirby Jackson

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,371 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:16 PM

I think that the point about social media on here was a wise one.  The reality is we just hear more of what actually goes on.  There are all of those famous stories about the Bickering Bills and a HOF QB and a should be HOF WR enjoying the company of said HOF QB's newscaster gf.  If that happened today it would be everywhere.  Picture if Gronk was getting with Giselle!!  That would be a story.

#19 Mr. WEO

Mr. WEO

    All Pro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,315 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:23 PM

It's crazy sh*t like this thread that makes me love this place....

#20 yungmack

yungmack

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,709 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostTipster19, on 12 June 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

The days about justice, equality and fairness is all in the past and unfortunately that's where it will stay! I guess that that I'm just an old nostalgic dinosaur but the the double standards from time to time really galls me. I for one was always an advocate for "character" guys but it's sadly apparent to me that if I want my favorite team/franchise to be successful and competitive than I have to abandon my values and principles. What a sad state of affairs this world/league has come too! It's things like this that takes away the luster of football for me, either I have to change and accept or be left behind. If I have to compromise too many times, accepting Super Bowls and franchises on foreign soil, than the choice might be made for me and be an easier one to make, I'll choose to stay where I am!


http://profootballta...e-robert-sands/
What exactly are you talking about? And who are you talking about? Can you name maybe five or six of these characterless teams that are having great success?  Here's my list of a few teams who have had substantial success in the last few years, the "pride of the NFL" franchises: Green Bay, New England, Pittsburgh, Giants, Baltimore, Indianapolis, New Orleans.  How many of them are successful because they rely on poor citizens with great talent?  There may be a player or two here and there whom you wouldn't want baby sitting your kids, but the huge majority of their players are not wicked evil scum.  In fact, taking into consideration the age of most of them, and the tremendous 24/7 scrutiny on them, I'm more surprised by how few of them are off-center guys.  It seems to me that most of the players on the good teams are both talented and pretty darn good human beings.