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Overrated Owner and Organization


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#1 WIDE LEFT

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:23 PM

I plead guilty to being a Patriot hater, but with that disclaimer, I still think Kraft and his Patriots organization is overrated. Kraft gets all of this positive publicity from the media, and I just don't see it. We don't praise a guy who buys a winning lottery ticket for being a financial genius; and drafting a QB in the 6th round and having him turn out to be a Hall of Famer is akin to buying a winning lottery ticket - just luck. Before and/ or without Brady, Kraft's team was a mediocrity.

And spare me the talk of Kraft the great humanitarian. Ever go to a Patriots game? Despite the fact that Kraft has more money than his children's children's children will ever be able to spend, he sticks it to the average fan by charging absolute top dollar from everything from parking to concessions. Not because he needs the money, but just because he can. So spare us the talk of the great and generous Robert Kraft.

#2 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:30 PM

Patriots got lucky with Brady and bolstered that with HGH and cheating. Kraft was ready to bolt for Hartford.

PTR

#3 MattM

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

I'll be curious how they'll do post-Brady myself.  I suspect they'll sink back into mediocrity, but we'll see in 1-2 years (I say Brady's got about that left despite his stated desire to play to 40--ask Favre how that worked out for him.)  Their drafting has been middling to lousy lately and they don't quite seem to attract the same level of FA (and FA discounts) they once did.  I think the League may have also sat on their cheating a bit more since Spygate--not nearly the same level of BS calls they used to get seemingly week-in, week-out.  Who knows, maybe Spygate scared off some of the crooked refs, too....

#4 KD in CT

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostPromoTheRobot, on 15 June 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Patriots got lucky with Brady and bolstered that with HGH and cheating. Kraft was ready to bolt for Hartford.

PTR

Kraft played the politicians on both sides perfectly during that little charade.

#5 Jim in Anchorage

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:53 PM

Oh good a new Pats are cheaters thread. Been 8 hours since the last, was getting afraid I would have to start one.

#6 Mr. WEO

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostWIDE LEFT, on 15 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

I plead guilty to being a Patriot hater, but with that disclaimer, I still think Kraft and his Patriots organization is overrated. Kraft gets all of this positive publicity from the media, and I just don't see it. We don't praise a guy who buys a winning lottery ticket for being a financial genius; and drafting a QB in the 6th round and having him turn out to be a Hall of Famer is akin to buying a winning lottery ticket - just luck. Before and/ or without Brady, Kraft's team was a mediocrity.

And spare me the talk of Kraft the great humanitarian. Ever go to a Patriots game? Despite the fact that Kraft has more money than his children's children's children will ever be able to spend, he sticks it to the average fan by charging absolute top dollar from everything from parking to concessions. Not because he needs the money, but just because he can. So spare us the talk of the great and generous Robert Kraft.

The guy was a 23 year season ticket holder.   He paid a record amount for the lowest valued team in the league---and prevented them from being moved to St. Louis.  The day he bought the team, fans picked up 6000 season tickets.  They have sold out every home game since he bought the team in 1994.  "Mediocre"? They won a lot of games and went to the SB with a guy named Drew
Bledsoe in 96.  

Kraft's pats have gone to 6 SBs and won 3.  How, exactly, are they "over rated"?

Everyone says they "won the lottery" with Brady.  Really? You all must have known how great Brady would be when he was at Michigan.  Otherwise it simply looks like they took a chance on and developed him into one of the best QBs in history.

You know who really won the lottery? The Irsays.  They sucked enough one year before what happened to be the year one the great prospect Payton Manning was coming out.  After wringing every win they could out of Manning they cut him, go 2-14 coincidentally the season before the greatest prospect since...Payton Manning, and draft Andrew Luck.  Who has been luckier than that?

Does anyone think Brady would have become a HOF QB on Ralph's Bills?  Of course not. So stop the " lottery" nonsense.  Unless you are referring to Ralph turning $25,000 into $900 million with no effort at all...

#7 Jerry Jabber

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:20 PM

Jerry Jones & the cowboys get my vote for overrated owner & organization. I'm sick & tired of hearing every offseason about how great the Cowboys are, how great Tony Romo is, etc... Jerry Jones had success in the 90's, but blew it when him & Jimmy Johnson had their falling out.

#8 Ralph W.

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:32 PM

So what I get is you're mad he has lots of money?

#9 BillnutinHouston

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostJerry Jabber, on 15 June 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

Jerry Jones & the cowboys get my vote for overrated owner & organization. I'm sick & tired of hearing every offseason about how great the Cowboys are, how great Tony Romo is, etc... Jerry Jones had success in the 90's, but blew it when him & Jimmy Johnson had their falling out.
Agree.  IMO another team in this category is the Dolphins.  Year in and year out, the media just WANT them to be good.

#10 bladiebla

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:37 PM

View PostMr. WEO, on 15 June 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

The guy was a 23 year season ticket holder.   He paid a record amount for the lowest valued team in the league---and prevented them from being moved to St. Louis.  The day he bought the team, fans picked up 6000 season tickets.  They have sold out every home game since he bought the team in 1994.  "Mediocre"? They won a lot of games and went to the SB with a guy named Drew
Bledsoe in 96.  

Kraft's pats have gone to 6 SBs and won 3.  How, exactly, are they "over rated"?

Everyone says they "won the lottery" with Brady.  Really? You all must have known how great Brady would be when he was at Michigan.  Otherwise it simply looks like they took a chance on and developed him into one of the best QBs in history.

You know who really won the lottery? The Irsays.  They sucked enough one year before what happened to be the year one the great prospect Payton Manning was coming out.  After wringing every win they could out of Manning they cut him, go 2-14 coincidentally the season before the greatest prospect since...Payton Manning, and draft Andrew Luck.  Who has been luckier than that?

Does anyone think Brady would have become a HOF QB on Ralph's Bills?  Of course not. So stop the " lottery" nonsense.  Unless you are referring to Ralph turning $25,000 into $900 million with no effort at all...

Great post, but with regards to Brady they did win the lottery, they didnt know he would pan out the way he did, else they would have taken him in the first round. So they bought a lottery ticket and landed the super jackpot. What's the chance you'll get a HOF QB at that spot? One in a thousand?

What the Colts did was cheating within the rules imho.

#11 Mr. WEO

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

View Postbladiebla, on 15 June 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:



Great post, but with regards to Brady they did win the lottery, they didnt know he would pan out the way he did, else they would have taken him in the first round. So they bought a lottery ticket and landed the super jackpot. What's the chance you'll get a HOF QB at that spot? One in a thousand?

What the Colts did was cheating within the rules imho.

Brady wasn't that great his first few years. He became great over time. And he did it within the culture of belichick (and Krafts) team. NE made Brady. Few other teams would have done anything with him. Least of all the Bills, who were stumbling through one awful HC after another during this time.

Why does it matter where he was drafted? If he was drafted number one people would say the pats lucked out by sucking the year before Brady came out of Michigan.

#12 nucci

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostBillnutinHouston, on 15 June 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Agree.  IMO another team in this category is the Dolphins.  Year in and year out, the media just WANT them to be good.
Because both Cowboys and Dolphins are big markets with history of multiple SB appearances and wins

#13 JohnC

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostWIDE LEFT, on 15 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

I plead guilty to being a Patriot hater, but with that disclaimer, I still think Kraft and his Patriots organization is overrated. Kraft gets all of this positive publicity from the media, and I just don't see it. We don't praise a guy who buys a winning lottery ticket for being a financial genius; and drafting a QB in the 6th round and having him turn out to be a Hall of Famer is akin to buying a winning lottery ticket - just luck. Before and/ or without Brady, Kraft's team was a mediocrity.

And spare me the talk of Kraft the great humanitarian. Ever go to a Patriots game? Despite the fact that Kraft has more money than his children's children's children will ever be able to spend, he sticks it to the average fan by charging absolute top dollar from everything from parking to concessions. Not because he needs the money, but just because he can. So spare us the talk of the great and generous Robert Kraft.

While the Pats have been one of the most successful franchises in the NFL over the past 15 yrs or so the Bills have been one of the worst performing franchises during that same period. Losers shouldn't be criticizing winners, they should be emulating them.

Do you think that Kraft would have been moronic enough to hire incompetents such as Levy and Buddy to run his billiion dollar asset as the weird owner of the Bills did? Do you think that the forward thinking owner from New England would have hired such mediocre and uninspiring HCs such as Jauron and Gailey for his franchise?

What the incompetent owner for the Bills never understood is that investing in the organization with top shelf talent gives you a greater return than if you have a chicken shiiiit attitude toward staffing the organization with incompetent fools who are making multi-million dollar decisions on your behalf. The Bills' record over the past generation speaks to their own ineptness. When you can't compete in a system designed for parity that is a testament to the caliber of its ownership and to the mind-set he brings to the organization. .

Optimism is on the rise for the Bills not because the owner in involved in his franchise but because he is no longer involved in the operation. Again, optimism is on the rise for the Bills not because his hire, Nix, is the GM but because he is no longer the GM.

Robert Kraft is the gold standard as an owner for any professional franchise in any sport. Ralph Wilson is the  standard for how not to run a professional franchise.  Any fan of the Bills who has been subjected to the zany ownership of Ralph Wilson has a lot of audacity criticizing Robert Kraft or any other owner in sports.

#14 Best Player Available

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:03 PM

Need to give a big shout out to the YORK family, current owners of the 9ers. Eddie D, was a different story.He was a great owner, and put winning over the almighty buck. Although he spent plenty on his players.
When Denise York ran the franchise well it sucked. her husband was no different. Now the kid has the reins and they are winning.
Make no mistake the new Santa Clara palace while nice will gouge every penny ala Kraft & Jones. Parking prices at the stick rivals Kraft now. Even fan favorite Joe Montana is in position to make mega millions on his "investment" across the street. Can't blame a legend for cashing in I guess.

The niners empire ended the day Eddie had to turn in the keys.

#15 FeartheLosing

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostMattM, on 15 June 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I'll be curious how they'll do post-Brady myself.  I suspect they'll sink back into mediocrity, but we'll see in 1-2 years (I say Brady's got about that left despite his stated desire to play to 40--ask Favre how that worked out for him.)  Their drafting has been middling to lousy lately and they don't quite seem to attract the same level of FA (and FA discounts) they once did.  I think the League may have also sat on their cheating a bit more since Spygate--not nearly the same level of BS calls they used to get seemingly week-in, week-out.  Who knows, maybe Spygate scared off some of the crooked refs, too....
Great head coaches tend to find great QB's.

So I would be surprised all all to see the Patriots keep winning without Tom Brady. Rememeber the year the lost him for 15 games, and still went 11-5.

#16 jethro_tull

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:33 PM

View PostJohnC, on 15 June 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

While the Pats have been one of the most successful franchises in the NFL over the past 15 yrs or so the Bills have been one of the worst performing franchises during that same period. Losers shouldn't be criticizing winners, they should be emulating them.

Do you think that Kraft would have been moronic enough to hire incompetents such as Levy and Buddy to run his billiion dollar asset as the weird owner of the Bills did? Do you think that the forward thinking owner from New England would have hired such mediocre and uninspiring HCs such as Jauron and Gailey for his franchise?

What the incompetent owner for the Bills never understood is that investing in the organization with top shelf talent gives you a greater return than if you have a chicken shiiiit attitude toward staffing the organization with incompetent fools who are making multi-million dollar decisions on your behalf. The Bills' record over the past generation speaks to their own ineptness. When you can't compete in a system designed for parity that is a testament to the caliber of its ownership and to the mind-set he brings to the organization. .

Optimism is on the rise for the Bills not because the owner in involved in his franchise but because he is no longer involved in the operation. Again, optimism is on the rise for the Bills not because his hire, Nix, is the GM but because he is no longer the GM.

Robert Kraft is the gold standard as an owner for any professional franchise in any sport. Ralph Wilson is the  standard for how not to run a professional franchise.  Any fan of the Bills who has been subjected to the zany ownership of Ralph Wilson has a lot of audacity criticizing Robert Kraft or any other owner in sports.
but we're pissed at 'em for being too successful- and owning the bills as if they were rag dolls.
but seriously, the bills being in a rut (a massive one at that) with a poorly managing owner does not make bills fans somehow exempt from being able to criticize kraft and the patriots.
the media gos out of its way to stroke kraft any chance they get.  kraft this, kraft that, kraft in his pink tie, krafts deceased wife was mother theresa the second, etc. etc.  it gets a little old!  and do you think he's just a little full of himself?
you are dead on with your assessment of the bills.  since mr. wilson's hands off policy. the improvement of the workings of this team (IMHO) are nearly palpabe,

Edited by jethro_tull, 15 June 2013 - 09:36 PM.


#17 3rdnlng

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:46 PM

View Postnucci, on 15 June 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Because both Cowboys and Dolphins are big markets with history of multiple SB appearances and wins

The Dolphins haven't sniffed the SB in 28 years.

#18 first_and_ten

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:46 PM

View PostMr. WEO, on 15 June 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

The guy was a 23 year season ticket holder.   He paid a record amount for the lowest valued team in the league---and prevented them from being moved to St. Louis.  The day he bought the team, fans picked up 6000 season tickets.  They have sold out every home game since he bought the team in 1994.  "Mediocre"? They won a lot of games and went to the SB with a guy named Drew
Bledsoe in 96.  

Kraft's pats have gone to 6 SBs and won 3.  How, exactly, are they "over rated"?

Everyone says they "won the lottery" with Brady.  Really? You all must have known how great Brady would be when he was at Michigan.  Otherwise it simply looks like they took a chance on and developed him into one of the best QBs in history.

You know who really won the lottery? The Irsays.  They sucked enough one year before what happened to be the year one the great prospect Payton Manning was coming out.  After wringing every win they could out of Manning they cut him, go 2-14 coincidentally the season before the greatest prospect since...Payton Manning, and draft Andrew Luck.  Who has been luckier than that?

Does anyone think Brady would have become a HOF QB on Ralph's Bills?  Of course not. So stop the " lottery" nonsense.  Unless you are referring to Ralph turning $25,000 into $900 million with no effort at all...

Are You kidding me? Anyone with half a brain can see that Brady would have succeeded wherever he went. Yes they got lucky with Brady. Obviously if they thought he woud have turned outt the way he did, he would have been drafted in the first round. And of course no one is claiming that they knew Brady would be this good. This is why the implication of winning the lottery was made. Also, the Irsays didn't win the lottery. They sucked on purpose so they could draft Luck. That was actually smart, not lucky..pardon the pun.

#19 San Jose Bills Fan

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:44 PM

View Postjethro_tull, on 15 June 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

but we're pissed at 'em for being too successful- and owning the bills as if they were rag dolls. but seriously, the bills being in a rut (a massive one at that) with a poorly managing owner does not make bills fans somehow exempt from being able to criticize kraft and the patriots. the media gos out of its way to stroke kraft any chance they get. kraft this, kraft that, kraft in his pink tie, krafts deceased wife was mother theresa the second, etc. etc. it gets a little old! and do you think he's just a little full of himself? you are dead on with your assessment of the bills. since mr. wilson's hands off policy. the improvement of the workings of this team (IMHO) are nearly palpabe,

Thank you.

I'm sick and tired of being admonished for hating one of our division rivals or any of them for that matter.

View PostMr. WEO, on 15 June 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Kraft was a 23 year season ticket holder.   He paid a record amount for the lowest valued team in the league---and prevented them from being moved to St. Louis.  The day he bought the team, fans picked up 6000 season tickets.  They have sold out every home game since he bought the team in 1994.  "Mediocre"? They won a lot of games and went to the SB with a guy named Drew
Bledsoe in 96.  

Kraft's pats have gone to 6 SBs and won 3.  How, exactly, are they "over rated"?

Everyone says they "won the lottery" with Brady.  Really? You all must have known how great Brady would be when he was at Michigan.  Otherwise it simply looks like they took a chance on and developed him into one of the best QBs in history.

You know who really won the lottery? The Irsays.  They sucked enough one year before what happened to be the year one the great prospect Payton Manning was coming out.  After wringing every win they could out of Manning they cut him, go 2-14 coincidentally the season before the greatest prospect since...Payton Manning, and draft Andrew Luck.  Who has been luckier than that?

Does anyone think Brady would have become a HOF QB on Ralph's Bills?  Of course not. So stop the " lottery" nonsense.  Unless you are referring to Ralph turning $25,000 into $900 million with no effort at all...

While I love the partisanship of the OP, this is an excellent narrative of the truth.

#20 benderbender

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:43 AM

Now that they have Tebow, they're set for when Brady retires ha ha