Jump to content


Enough dodging: who is the QB for this team/why?


  • Please log in to reply
128 replies to this topic

#1 OCinBuffalo

OCinBuffalo

    This...for the first 6 games he plays

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,495 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:50 PM

The first part of this thread:
It's June, yes, and we don't know this and that, and camp hasn't started, and pads and no pads and blah, blah, kaqeprjawpjcpaefjapeja.

Forget all that. Look at our threads, everybody is ducking the #1 question we face: Who is the starting QB for week 1, against the Pats*, at home?

Is anybody ready to say, right now, who that is, with 0 disclaimers? I'm looking for guts here(because I don't have enough to answer that question myself. :lol:).

You don't need to give reasons, and feel free to use your instinct.

The second part:
If you're like me, and you really can't bring yourself to get behind a starter, then this part is for you. What specifically will make the decision for you? What is important, and what doesn't matter, because it's only camp? What about the preseason games will be relevant, and indicative? What is nonsense? Example of prior nonsense that I was guilty of espousing: "We ran vanilla offense, they were blitzing and that's why....", as a reason(excuse) for why the O played mediocre/terrible.

IMO, the best way to avoid the hell of Flutie/RJ or worse, Losman/Holcomb, is to start the process early, and figure out the criteria, that we can all agree on, that should determine the starter. This way we aren't making them up as we go along. The other part is for posters to lay out their thoughts on what each QB will have to show now, BEFORE, we are in the weeds of camp, and we have "but look at the camp #s yesterday" posts making everybody crazy.

For many of us, it's not like we haven't been through this before. We do have some wisdom as a fan base(a quick perusal of other team's message boards is all that is required to prove that). So another part is: what do you remember from last time, that informs what we should or shouldn't be thinking is important, this time?

Edited by OCinBuffalo, 17 June 2013 - 12:52 PM.


#2 NoSaint

NoSaint

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,499 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:53 PM

Any answer is pointless. A couple of reports on OTAs and a video highlight or two isn't enough for a real opinion. Shot in the dark says ej

#3 OCinBuffalo

OCinBuffalo

    This...for the first 6 games he plays

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,495 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 17 June 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Any answer is pointless. A couple of reports on OTAs and a video highlight or two isn't enough for a real opinion. Shot in the dark says ej
Then do the second part.

#4 Ralph W.

Ralph W.

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 472 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:55 PM

EJ will be starting. He will earn it in TC and preseason like a QB should. He will be a Russell Wilson/Matt Ryan type where the decision wasn't till after they played in preseason.

Edited by EJ3, 17 June 2013 - 12:56 PM.


#5 HamSandwhich

HamSandwhich

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,183 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

If EJ is close or even with Kolb, EJ has to start.  If EJ is green behind the ears, and not picking up the offense as well as would be expected, cannot make reads on time, etc, then he should sit and learn behind Kolb.  It's EJ's job to win in my opinion. He is the future afterall!  

That said, I think EJ is raw and will need to sit a few games to begin the season, so Kolb will start the season.

#6 K-9

K-9

    Long Timer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,220 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:01 PM

My instinct tells me Kolb.

My intellect says it should be Manuel.

Which means I'm naming Tuel as the starter.

GO BILLS!!!

#7 HamSandwhich

HamSandwhich

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,183 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

View PostK-9, on 17 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

My instinct tells me Kolb.

My intellect says it should be Manuel.

Which means I'm naming Tuel as the starter.

GO BILLS!!!

TUEL for Pres in 2016!!!

#8 OCinBuffalo

OCinBuffalo

    This...for the first 6 games he plays

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,495 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostHamSandwhich, on 17 June 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

TUEL for Pres in 2016!!!
You're just looking to be indicted, with this post, and that handle, aren't you?

#9 Gugny

Gugny

    Please pray and send positive thoughts for Chef's back.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:12 PM

You don't draft a QB at 16th overall to sit on the bench and learn from someone of Kevin Kolb's caliber.  You just don't.

EJ is the starter.

Edited by Fig Newtons, 17 June 2013 - 01:30 PM.


#10 Buffalos#1Fan

Buffalos#1Fan

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 262 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostFig Newtons, on 17 June 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

You don't draft a QB at 8 overall to sit on the bench and learn from someone of Kevin Kolb's caliber.  You just don't.

EJ is the starter.

16

#11 NoSaint

NoSaint

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,499 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostOCinBuffalo, on 17 June 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:


Then do the second part.

realistically theres still enough unknown, even that is a bit futile.

i think the one the coaches decide on will be my judgement for who should be starter. they are making a decision that will shape the rest of their professional lives potentially, with access to infinitely more info than we do. i trust them to do the best possible.

we dont know whats going on in meeting rooms, playcalling wise, most of our information will be at best second hand. and beyond that, theres not some magic matrix - qb is a "you know it when you see it" situation oftentimes.

Edited by NoSaint, 17 June 2013 - 01:16 PM.


#12 HamSandwhich

HamSandwhich

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,183 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostOCinBuffalo, on 17 June 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

You're just looking to be indicted, with this post, and that handle, aren't you?

Oh don't be such a Teul! :thumbsup:

#13 Gugny

Gugny

    Please pray and send positive thoughts for Chef's back.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostBuffalos#1Fan, on 17 June 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

16
Fixed and thank you.

#14 Cheddar's Dad

Cheddar's Dad

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 396 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:37 PM

E.J. was drafted to start. Kolb was signed to a backup contract. That is what the team and fans want to see happen. But neither E.J. nor Kolb have played a game in a Bills uni. The answer to your both parts of your question will come with preseason game results.

#15 eball

eball

    Omar Sly

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,837 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:43 PM

Without going into too much detail, my position is that unless EJ stinks it up in camp or during preseason the job is his to lose, not win.  I can't imagine EJ and Kolb performing similarly and them giving the job to Kolb -- that's not why you draft a QB in the first round.

If Kolb clearly outperforms EJ in August then you have to determine if that's because EJ just needs some time to develop, or if you've made an error in your talent evaluation.  Personally, I believe playing QB for a D-1 powerhouse for 2+ seasons qualifies as sufficient preparation to start in the NFL, and that's why I strongly believe EJ will be the opening day starter.

#16 Gugny

Gugny

    Please pray and send positive thoughts for Chef's back.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,998 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:45 PM

View Posteball, on 17 June 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Without going into too much detail, my position is that unless EJ stinks it up in camp or during preseason the job is his to lose, not win.  I can't imagine EJ and Kolb performing similarly and them giving the job to Kolb -- that's not why you draft a QB in the first round.

If Kolb clearly outperforms EJ in August then you have to determine if that's because EJ just needs some time to develop, or if you've made an error in your talent evaluation.  Personally, I believe playing QB for a D-1 powerhouse for 2+ seasons qualifies as sufficient preparation to start in the NFL, and that's why I strongly believe EJ will be the opening day starter.
What he said.

#17 HamSandwhich

HamSandwhich

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,183 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:54 PM

View Posteball, on 17 June 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Without going into too much detail, my position is that unless EJ stinks it up in camp or during preseason the job is his to lose, not win.  I can't imagine EJ and Kolb performing similarly and them giving the job to Kolb -- that's not why you draft a QB in the first round.

If Kolb clearly outperforms EJ in August then you have to determine if that's because EJ just needs some time to develop, or if you've made an error in your talent evaluation.  Personally, I believe playing QB for a D-1 powerhouse for 2+ seasons qualifies as sufficient preparation to start in the NFL, and that's why I strongly believe EJ will be the opening day starter.

This is what I meant to say in my origional post.  Sorry for the confusion, carry on.

#18 JuanGuzman

JuanGuzman

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 506 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:04 PM

Gibran Hamden is my dark horse, wait actually he is my knight in shining armor... but i digress

Like everyone esle just a guess at this point, but I think Kolb will be the starter. The one stat that worries me about E.J. is the number of times he was sacked over the last two years  (59 I think) that seems like a lot to me. to me it speaks to poor pocket awareness (but I didn't watch any FSU games mb it was something else e.g. bad O-line or Designed QB run/pass options etc), I think until he has that part of his game figured out they will go with Kevin Kolb (who also gets sacked a lot). Who knows though really.

#19 Ralph W.

Ralph W.

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 472 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostJuanGuzman, on 17 June 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Gibran Hamden is my dark horse, wait actually he is my knight in shining armor... but i digress

Like everyone esle just a guess at this point, but I think Kolb will be the starter. The one stat that worries me about E.J. is the number of times he was sacked over the last two years  (59 I think) that seems like a lot to me. to me it speaks to poor pocket awareness (but I didn't watch any FSU games mb it was something else e.g. bad O-line or Designed QB run/pass options etc), I think until he has that part of his game figured out they will go with Kevin Kolb (who also gets sacked a lot). Who knows though really.
I remember him talking about his sacks on the Colin Cowherd show. He said something to the extent of his coach didn't want him running out of the pocket so he mentally would try to stay in longer then he should have.

#20 B-Large

B-Large

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,785 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostOCinBuffalo, on 17 June 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

The first part of this thread:
It's June, yes, and we don't know this and that, and camp hasn't started, and pads and no pads and blah, blah, kaqeprjawpjcpaefjapeja.

Forget all that. Look at our threads, everybody is ducking the #1 question we face: Who is the starting QB for week 1, against the Pats*, at home?

Is anybody ready to say, right now, who that is, with 0 disclaimers? I'm looking for guts here(because I don't have enough to answer that question myself. :lol:).

You don't need to give reasons, and feel free to use your instinct.

The second part:
If you're like me, and you really can't bring yourself to get behind a starter, then this part is for you. What specifically will make the decision for you? What is important, and what doesn't matter, because it's only camp? What about the preseason games will be relevant, and indicative? What is nonsense? Example of prior nonsense that I was guilty of espousing: "We ran vanilla offense, they were blitzing and that's why....", as a reason(excuse) for why the O played mediocre/terrible.

IMO, the best way to avoid the hell of Flutie/RJ or worse, Losman/Holcomb, is to start the process early, and figure out the criteria, that we can all agree on, that should determine the starter. This way we aren't making them up as we go along. The other part is for posters to lay out their thoughts on what each QB will have to show now, BEFORE, we are in the weeds of camp, and we have "but look at the camp #s yesterday" posts making everybody crazy.

For many of us, it's not like we haven't been through this before. We do have some wisdom as a fan base(a quick perusal of other team's message boards is all that is required to prove that). So another part is: what do you remember from last time, that informs what we should or shouldn't be thinking is important, this time?

Did you have stroke or something?

If EJ shows he can be competent that opening day against the Patriots, in my opinion, he starts.  Give him a heavy run first offense, make the offense simple enough to give him some success and lean on the Defense that day to see if the game can be close/ winnable.  EJ is supposed to be a smart kid so I think he will pick up the playbook prety quick, no doubt Big Bill will make him look silly for the most part, but I htink gettin gout there and getting a feel for the game is essential- The Kolb project seems like a exercise in futlity- so he wins a few games, maybe we get off to a qucik start but if past predicts the future in some sense he will be hurt or inconsistent, meaning nowheresville again....

If EJ is ready, he plays