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A little late, yet interesting - JCUTLER V RFITZPATRICK


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#1 ctk232

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

To be honest, I have never thought of Cutler as a quality QB, capable of being a true starting caliber QB in the NFL. However this comparison between him and Fitz is a great insight into how media attention can shape and define certain player's careers:

http://www.reddit.co...fitzpatrick_in/

#2 eball

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

It is definitely interesting to see those stats put up side by side, but I'll agree with the OP in that I've never really liked Cutler and feel he is over-hyped.  That said, we'll soon see what he can do in a system directed by an offensive guru like Trestman.

#3 swnybillsfan

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:14 PM

View Posteball, on 25 June 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

It is definitely interesting to see those stats put up side by side, but I'll agree with the OP in that I've never really liked Cutler and feel he is over-hyped.  That said, we'll soon see what he can do in a system directed by an offensive guru like Trestman.
it's my opinion that cutler gets a lot more slack than most qbs in his peer group because of his arm strength. if he made the same decisions and had the same attitude with average arm strength, he would be somebody's third stringer right now, maybe even fighting for a roster spot. but, you cannot teach "holy crap, that guy's got a rocket launcher on his shoulder!"

#4 NoSaint

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

View Postswnybillsfan, on 25 June 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:


it's my opinion that cutler gets a lot more slack than most qbs in his peer group because of his arm strength. if he made the same decisions and had the same attitude with average arm strength, he would be somebody's third stringer right now, maybe even fighting for a roster spot. but, you cannot teach "holy crap, that guy's got a rocket launcher on his shoulder!"

that is a big part of it.

the fact that hes won games and been in the playoffs (even if the D should get a lot of credit) also helps him.

last up, if we were doing basic rankings - how far apart would they really fall? Cutler is starting to solidly come up outside the top 10 and in the teens often i think. League average or slightly above with huge upside physically. Fitz typically comes up around 20 so slightly below league average but maxed out already.


just shooting off the cuff and not ordered....
manning
manning
brees
brady
rodgers
matt ryan
big ben
flacco
Luck

then you get into a mess of
stafford, romo, cutler, schaub, maybe even rivers or palmer (depending on how you view their career arcs currently) as vets that arent in that top tier and young guys with a lot of potential (CK, RG3, R Wilson)

then right behind that group would be fitz. depending on where you view cutler in that mess they could end up pretty close.

Edited by NoSaint, 25 June 2013 - 06:18 PM.


#5 Jamie Nails

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:26 PM

It all boils down to defense. The bears D is fair superior and has won or put them in a better position to win games over this span. Had we had the bears D or a statistical equivalent (including their turnover +/-) over the last three years, Fitz and Chan would still be here and we may have had a playoff appearance or two. All that said, our D sucked, which forced Fitz to throw more late in games, which led to inopportune turnovers. Perception is reality. The Bears win more (not based on Cutler doing anything better statisically than Fitz). As a result, Cutler is viewed as a better QB, not because he is, but because of their D and special teams.

Edited by Jamie Nails, 25 June 2013 - 01:26 PM.


#6 Cash

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:28 PM

It's a decent piece, but the big point the author leaves out is that he's comparing the best 4 years of Fitzpatrick's career, by far, to 4 typical Cutler years.  Actually, you could argue that both his full years starting in Denver (with a good O-line and real receivers) were better than his average season in Chicago.  I honestly don't feel like Cutler is overrated at all.  Does anyone think he's a top 5 QB?  I've never seen anyone say that.  I doubt anyone besides Chicago homers would put him in the top 10, either.  Fitz was about the 20th-best starter over the last 4 years, Cutler's probably something like 12th or 13th.  The differences are:

1.) Cutler had no O-line, whereas Fitz had at least a decent one, possibly really good.  (We'll see how much of the O-line's success was due to Chan's scheme.)

2.) Cutler isn't a limited player -- he can make all the throws, and has shown in individual games that he can win a game almost singlehandedly.  He's not consistent enough to do it regularly, but Fitz was always a limited guy who needed a scheme to get guys open for him.  Once defenses figured out how to play against that scheme, Fitz was pretty much toast.

#7 Dorkington

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:30 PM

IMO, they are both fairly average... Cutler with the stronger arm, and Fitzpatrick with the quicker decision making.

#8 BLEDSOE1QB

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:43 PM

could be brothers

#9 Kellyto83TD

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

Cutler WAY Over rated. I can't see Chicago paying the guy

#10 NoSaint

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:44 PM

View PostKellyto83TD, on 25 June 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Cutler WAY Over rated. I can't see Chicago paying the guy

where do you think most people rate him? At best fringe to the top ten? I dont think he falls considerably lower than that in ability or higher than that in perception

#11 AlwaysBilleve

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

Cool article. Thanks for posting.

Agreed. Never really liked Cutler. He has always plays for better teams and as we know, brings in more credit.

#12 Why So Serious?

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

What I learned is that reddit actually has pretty intelligent football discussions.

#13 The Big Cat

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:33 PM

View PostWhy So Serious?, on 25 June 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

What I learned is that reddit actually has pretty intelligent football discussions.

Uh...reddit rules the Internet. This should come as no surprise.

#14 bladiebla

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:22 PM

Great piece, thanks for pointing it out!

From those stats one would say that defense and special teams was the issue for the Bills these past 4 years. The reality isnt far off, take out the Jauron\Fewell year and the numbers are worse, Gailey failed big time on special teams and defense production. Funny thing is that during the Jauron years it was the exact opposite (lousy offense, great special teams, good to reasonable defense).

#15 BuffOrange

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 25 June 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

that is a big part of it.

the fact that hes won games and been in the playoffs (even if the D should get a lot of credit) also helps him.

last up, if we were doing basic rankings - how far apart would they really fall? Cutler is starting to solidly come up outised the top 10 and in the teens often i think. League average or slightly above with huge upside physically. Fitz typically comes up around 20 so slightly below league average but maxed out already.


just shooting off the cuff and not ordered....
manning
manning
brees
brady
rodgers
matt ryan
big ben
flacco
Luck

then you get into a mess of
stafford, romo, cutler, schaub, maybe even rivers or palmer (depending on how you view their career arcs currently) as vets that arent in that top tier and young guys with a lot of potential (CK, RG3, R Wilson)

then right behind that group would be fitz. depending on where you view cutler in that mess they could end up pretty close.

View PostNoSaint, on 25 June 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

where do you think most people rate him? At best fringe to the top ten? I dont think he falls considerably lower than that in ability or higher than that in perception

Yah I've always said 95% of fans have no clue what over/underrated means.  You have to be better or worse than how the majority of media/fans perceive you.  Cutler is the new Romo.  So many people get off on shouting "overrated!" that it loses all meaning.  Nobody that I know of ever considered them elite guys; but it's fun to pretend otherwise so you can call them overrated I guess.

#16 K-9

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:06 PM

Million dollar arm, ten cent head. Some of the worst decision making you'll see at times. It's one thing to make bad throws; every QB alive does that. It's quite another to make STUPID throws and Cutler does that far more than you'd like to see. And his mechanics suck because he relies too much on his rocket and gets lazy with his feet.

GO BILLS!!!

#17 Ralph W.

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:12 PM

Pickzpatrick

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:38 PM

I as a Bills fan would be just as happy with Culter as I was with Fitz.  Both can be serviceable, but would never carry the franchise on their back.  Throw Kolb in the same boat.  EJ is the big hope for something more.

#19 Ryan L Billz

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:48 PM

Cutler rules.....last 3 seasons he has had no OL whatsoever   Puuuuuuurriod.

Fitz is a crappy backup with a baby arm........Cutler will shine IMO with these FA OL and WR moves the Bears have made finally.

Here's to the last thread about Fitz!   :beer:            It's EJ time baby!

Edited by Ryan L Billz, 25 June 2013 - 07:49 PM.


#20 Never NEVER Give-up

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:19 PM

OMG!!!  We just got rid of him!!!  Now you tell us!!  :w00t:

Actually - very interesting read - thanks for posting!