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Bills Top WRs


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#1 Owen

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

The Bills have 12 WRs listed on their roster depth chart. They could keep 6 on the 53 man roster.  Here is who I believe will be the best 6 and why.  Stevie Johnson, Da' Rick Rogers, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin , T.J. Graham and finally Brad Smith.  I decided on keeping Smith because the Bills can use his experience. They have the salary cap money. If they release him I am afraid the Patriots would get him. Besides he is really good ... The talent here is excellent, but still inexperienced. We know about Stevie. Rogers should have gone in the late 1st or early 2nd round if it were not for his troubles. Woods has the making of a solid starter.  Goodwin is faster than a speeding bullet but inexperienced. Graham has looked really good in the preseason so far.  If all really play well, then Smith might be let go, to save salary cap money. Bills are going to need all the cap money they can get next year.  I also believe a couple of other WRs could make the extended roster. What a difference from lasts years group.  Go Bills

#2 mrags

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:12 AM

I'd agree with all of that except for the part where you said Smith was "really good". I almost crapped myself laughing actually on that one.

To say he is really good really shows how clueless you are on the subject so its really hard to take your post seriously.

Sorry, nothing personal, the people here that know me well enough, know how much I can't stand Brad Smith. At least in his wildcat role. I know what your saying, that he will be dedicated to playing the WR position. But in fairness, his career stats are 101 receptions, 949 yards, a d 5 TDs over a 7 year career. To say he's "really good" is a shot in the face to all WRs at the NFL level.

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#3 metzelaars_lives

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostOwen, on 04 July 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Bills have 12 WRs listed on their roster depth chart. They could keep 6 on the 53 man roster.  Here is who I believe will be the best 6 and why.  Stevie Johnson, Da' Rick Rogers, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin , T.J. Graham and finally Brad Smith.  I decided on keeping Smith because the Bills can use his experience. They have the salary cap money. If they release him I am afraid the Patriots would get him. Besides he is really good ... The talent here is excellent, but still inexperienced. We know about Stevie. Rogers should have gone in the late 1st or early 2nd round if it were not for his troubles. Woods has the making of a solid starter.  Goodwin is faster than a speeding bullet but inexperienced. Graham has looked really good in the preseason so far.  If all really play well, then Smith might be let go, to save salary cap money. Bills are going to need all the cap money they can get next year.  I also believe a couple of other WRs could make the extended roster. What a difference from lasts years group.  Go Bills

I'll play along, not much else going on so why not.

I think 4 spots are 100% locks: SJ, Graham, Woods and Goodwin.  I think after that you got: Easley, Smith, Rogers, Kaufmann, Elliott, Hogan, et al.  I think they will end up keeping 7 this year to be perfectly honest (Easley, Smith and Rogers).  I think the organization wants Easley to take a step forward. They've been so patient with him, why would they wait until he's finally healthy and ready to go and then cut him.  Doesn't make a lot of sense.  In fact, I kind of think if Easley can stay healthy, he's in the conversation for the #3 receiver spot after SJ and Woods.  I think Nix wants it to unfold that way on account of his speed and size.  I agree with you that Smith is too valuable as a special teamer to let go.  I think Rogers just has to show he can stay out of trouble.  I really can't see who they cut at this point.  For all I know they keep Kaufmann too as a hybrid WR/TE.  I guess we'll find out.

#4 mrags

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:14 AM

But I do have lots of hope and faith in this WR group, more so than any other WR in Bills history. And as much as I dislike B. Smith, I do feel he can be a better WR if he, and the Bills coaching staff dedicate him to full time WR. Hell just never be "really good". EVER!!!

#5 metzelaars_lives

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:19 AM

View Postmrags, on 04 July 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'd agree with all of that except for the part where you said Smith was "really good". I almost crapped myself laughing actually on that one.

To say he is really good really shows how clueless you are on the subject so its really hard to take your post seriously.

Sorry, nothing personal, the people here that know me well enough, know how much I can't stand Brad Smith. At least in his wildcat role. I know what your saying, that he will be dedicated to playing the WR position. But in fairness, his career stats are 101 receptions, 949 yards, a d 5 TDs over a 7 year career. To say he's "really good" is a shot in the face to all WRs at the NFL level.

http://www.nfl.com/p...2506916/profile

Your hatred for Brad Smith is truly a waste of hate.  Sounds to me like you just hate the wildcat, period.  It's like a friend in college who hated Home Improvement and Mrs. Doubtfire.  Why?  They're not hurting anyone and neither is Brad Smith.  Look at his numbers from the last two years on the Bills:

http://www.pro-footb.../S/SmitBr01.htm

In 2011, when they were off to that hot start, they would line him up on 3rd and 2, the whole stadium knew he was running and he would always patiently make his way for a 3 yard gain.  It was actually really working.  Then they inexplicably abandoned it.  Despite that fact, he ended up with 4.4 yards/carry when the whole stadium knew he was running every time he stepped on the field.  And then last year, he averaged 8.7 yards a carry!  Not to mention he was great as a kick returner last year.  He's a gadget player and probably overpaid.  Not sure what you were expecting from him.  And to be honest, he's been surprisingly pretty sure-handed as a receiver as well.  So yeah, I'd have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you on that one...

Edited by metzelaars_lives, 04 July 2013 - 12:54 PM.


#6 Johnny Hammersticks

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:27 AM

I suspect that Brandon Kaufmann will make the final roster.

#7 Buftex

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:28 AM

I am intriqued by all of the guys on your "keep 'em" list.  I think, barring injury, you have the correct guys on your roster.  Da'Rick Rogers and TJ Graham could really be wild cards...both could be far more talented than we realize, but either could disappoint as well.

Personally, I liked what I saw of Graham, for the most part, last season.  I think he was playing in an offense (or moreover with a QB, in Fitz) that didn't take advantatge of his speed. Sure he had the one, costly, gaffe against the Pats (or did he just take the fall for it?), but I thought he showed great speed and abiltiy to beat DB's, but nobdy could get the ball to him...so he became more a possesion receiver, and, I thought, showed good hands, and repeatedly fought for an extra yard or two (even though well covered) to get a first down. I iike TJ.  All reports from mini-camps were very positive.

Rogers is just such an enigma.  Personally, i have never seen him play a down of football, but if you believe what all the talking heads had to say, pre-draft, he was one of the best WR prospects in the draft, but off-field stuff made him a non-factor in the draft.  It seems assumed that Woods will be an automatic starter, but I wonder if Rogers pushes him....

#8 mrags

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:29 AM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 04 July 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:



Your hatred for Brad Smith is truly a waste of hate.  Sounds to me like you just hate the wildcat, period.  It's like a friend in college who hated Home Improvement and Mrs. Doubtfire.  Why?  They're not hurting anyone and neither is Brad Smith.  Look at his numbers from the last two years on the Bills:

http://www.pro-footb.../S/SmitBr01.htm

In 2011, when they were off to that hot start, they would line him up on 3rd and 2, the whole stadium knew he was running and he would always patiently make his way for a 3 yard gain.  It was actually really working.  Then they inexplicably abandoned it.  Despite that fact, he ended up with 4.4 yards/carry when the whole stadium knew he was running every time he stepped on the field.  And then last year, he averaged 8.7 yards a carry!  Not to mention he was great as a kick returner last year.  He's a gadget player and probably overpaid.  Not sure what you were expecting from him.  And to be honest, he's been surprisingly pretty sure-handed as a receiver as well.  So yeah, I'd have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you on that one...
ok, back to this argument again. Why put Brad Smith (a gadget player) in a wildcat situation to get you 2-3 yards, when you have Freddy or CJ at your disposal? Sounds dumb to me.

Why put Smith back at KE when you have McKelvin, Rogers, Graham, CJ, And countless other ST scrubs in your roster?

Why would you okay him at WC when you actually have a QB that is dedicated to throwing the ball on a consistant basis?

Why would you use him at WR when you have 3-5 other WRs that are better at your disposal?

The only real argument you have is that he was absolutely money last year in coverage teams. Ill give you that. IMO, he earned his paycheck last year. But to say that he was even average at any other position he played last year, or his entire career in this league is laughable. Makes me laugh til I cry... Or puke.

In the end, your paying a guy $4million per year in a guy that does 5 different things, and none of them well, and where he's used, the dropoff between him and some other scrub not making $4mil a year, or someone else you'd have on the roster already, like McKelvin, or Graham, or Freddy/CJ.

Lets ask this question, which I brought up last year. Lets say we don't sign Byrd this season. Let him go for practically nothing. And you find out we were $2million a year short for signing him. Would you rather have Byrd, as overpriced as he may be? Or would you rather have B. Smith?

Thought so.

#9 Ennjay

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:39 PM

The question in my mind is how loyal Whaley wants to be to Buddy's picks.  (Yes, I know Whaley was here the past three years, but he wasn't in charge yet.)  Marrone doesn't owe anybody anything from before he was hired, so he'll feel no need to keep an Easley around over someone a few years younger who shows just as much in training camp and maybe contributes more on special teams.  Does Whaley feel like keeping an Easley here over a Kauffman?

Otherwise I agree with most posters here.  SJ, Woods, Graham, Goodwin are mortal locks; SJ's a no-brainer, Woods and Goodwin were just drafted, Graham was a #3-rounder just a year ago.  Rogers will have to play (on field and off) his way off the final roster, given his talent.  Smith?  He plays special teams and I've heard he's a great lockerroom guy.  Otherwise see my first paragraph.

Edited by Ennjay, 04 July 2013 - 02:41 PM.


#10 metzelaars_lives

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

View Postmrags, on 04 July 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

ok, back to this argument again. Why put Brad Smith (a gadget player) in a wildcat situation to get you 2-3 yards, when you have Freddy or CJ at your disposal? Sounds dumb to me.

Why put Smith back at KE when you have McKelvin, Rogers, Graham, CJ, And countless other ST scrubs in your roster?

Why would you okay him at WC when you actually have a QB that is dedicated to throwing the ball on a consistant basis?

Why would you use him at WR when you have 3-5 other WRs that are better at your disposal?

The only real argument you have is that he was absolutely money last year in coverage teams. Ill give you that. IMO, he earned his paycheck last year. But to say that he was even average at any other position he played last year, or his entire career in this league is laughable. Makes me laugh til I cry... Or puke.

In the end, your paying a guy $4million per year in a guy that does 5 different things, and none of them well, and where he's used, the dropoff between him and some other scrub not making $4mil a year, or someone else you'd have on the roster already, like McKelvin, or Graham, or Freddy/CJ.

Lets ask this question, which I brought up last year. Lets say we don't sign Byrd this season. Let him go for practically nothing. And you find out we were $2million a year short for signing him. Would you rather have Byrd, as overpriced as he may be? Or would you rather have B. Smith?

Thought so.

OK, couple things:

Number one, I don't really care if they cut Brad Smith.  In fact, I think if he doesn't agree to some sort of re-structure, then they should cut him.  He's not worth $4 million.  My contention is that he's a decent football player and does not suck.

Number two, you say why not line up Spiller or Jackson on 3rd and 2?  Because Brad Smith has shown- again particularly at the beginning of 2011- that he is more capable of getting those 2 yards from the wildcat with a stacked box than Spiller or Jackson are from a conventional formation.  How often does it work that we run Jackson right up the middle on 3rd and 2 when the whole stadium knows he's getting the football?  

Thought so.

I'll even say this:  I think Tim Tebow is not a top 100 qb in football.  In other words, I don't think he's worthy of being a 3rd stringer on an NFL roster.  Quite frankly, I don't think he would be very good in a league like the CFL.  All that being said, I think when he lines up under center on a 3rd and 2, I don't think there's many qb's in football that give you a better shot at a first down in that particular situation.  And that's why I like Brad Smith.  He can get yards when everyone in the stadium knows he's running because there's always that "what are they up to?" factor.  I think the bottom line is that I think the wildcat has more value than you do.

Edited by metzelaars_lives, 04 July 2013 - 01:02 PM.


#11 Triple Threat

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

View PostEnnjay, on 04 July 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

The question in my mind is how loyal Whaley wants to be to Buddy's picks.  (Yes, I know Whaley was here the past three years, but he wasn't in charge yet.)  Marrone doesn't own anybody anything from before he was hired, so he'll feel no need to keep an Easley around over someone a few years younger who shows just as much in training camp and maybe contributes more on special teams.  Does Whaley feel like keeping an Easley here over a Kauffman?

Otherwise I agree with most posters here.  SJ, Woods, Graham, Goodwin are mortal locks; SJ's a no-brainer, Woods and Goodwin were just drafted, Graham was a #3-rounder just a year ago.  Rogers will have to play (on field and off) his way off the final roster, given his talent.  Smith?  He plays special teams and I've heard he's a great lockerroom guy.  Otherwise see my first paragraph.

There is a zero percent chance that keeping football players on this team will have anything to do with being loyal to "Buddy's picks".

#12 Owen

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:12 PM

Brad Smith is 6-2, 213 lbs and fast. Has good hands. Has played out of position under Gailey. He is a good receiver, maybe not great, conceded. But it is the play of the new draftees that is the most important.  The better they show in preseason the least opportunity he has to make the team. If any of the others not mentioned (6) of them have a good showing it could also means he gets cut...  His salary is rich and it could hurt him. Bills have a good group of young receivers this year.. A hellva lot better than last years group... Can't wait for the season to begin...

#13 jboyst62

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:14 PM

The WR's are right.  The only thing that might change is Rogers.  If he looks pedestrian in preseason or slow to pick up the game he might be PS'd believing no other teams will try to snatch him up.  With Hernandez making big headlines teams might shy away from a character issue.

With the young squad we have I feel it will be important to keep Smith on the roster.  Smith's time playing QB, his veteran and leadership presence, and positive attitude will make him an asset to help the WR's develop.

The one factor no one has mentioned is that we have no idea what we will be getting from SJ13 this year.  His style of play does not make him conducive to the new playbook.

We need smart players right now, Brad Smith is one of those guys.  If we have injuries in 3 positions we can use Smith.  He can return the ball, as well.  Smiths return abilities are under appreciated.

For those saying they would rather use CJ and FJ in the box on 3rd and 2 forget that FJ is getting long in the tooth and must not rode too hard in order to preserve his game.  I would much rather include Smith in a short game for a change up then I would ride FJ and CJ every play.

#14 jumbalaya

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:29 PM

Brad Smith is an extremely talented football player.  He is a guy that makes plays at wildcat, QB, WR, KR and Special teams.  For a coaching staff that values versatility and players that make plays there is no one more versatile then Smith. He is also has the highest character on the team and if character gets value at all, he has it and more.  I find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone could hate a player like Brad Smith.

Edited by jumbalaya, 04 July 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#15 mrags

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

---^ I hate Brad Smith. Hate the position he plays on a football team. And I hate all the gimmicky following a guy like him gets. Nobody worries about the WC anymore. His position at the price he earns is completely unwarranted. Your essentially taking a roster spit from a potential good football player. We all know He is not one.

#16 Beerball

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:43 PM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 04 July 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Not to mention he was great as a kick returner last year.
He was average as a returner. We have others who can fill that role and he's over paid as a 4th-5th receiver.

#17 metzelaars_lives

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostBeerball, on 04 July 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

He was average as a returner. We have others who can fill that role and he's over paid as a 4th-5th receiver.

He averaged 27.6 per return.  That's pretty good.  Especially since they moved the kickoffs up to the 35.  But yeah, I don't think he's worth $4 million per.  I just don't like when people jump all over him and say he's completely useless

#18 3rdand12

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

Conjecture of course because i have only followed the minis and OTA via news. Last year is a nearly a wash for every VET even Graham.

Johnson
Woods/Graham
are the only locks i can tell so far.
The Easily thing is just sad he was already injured again. bye bye.
Kaufman has made some play in shorts during 7-7. bigger body too.
Goodwin should be playing situational and i expect listed
Smith has played very well and ran with ones.
Norrell has been released

Edited by 3rdand12, 04 July 2013 - 02:59 PM.


#19 mrags

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:00 PM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 04 July 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:



He averaged 27.6 per return.  That's pretty good.  Especially since they moved the kickoffs up to the 35.  But yeah, I don't think he's worth $4 million per.  I just don't like when people jump all over him and say he's completely useless
the problem with his average, is that he rarely takes kickoffs out of the end zone. He usually downs then so that we take them at the 20. It's much more noticeable than with the other returners. There's no evidence I have to support this claim, but I'd be shocked if he actually returned more than 5 kicks all year that were out of the end zone, and that's probably high.

#20 Beerball

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:40 PM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 04 July 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

He averaged 27.6 per return.  That's pretty good.  Especially since they moved the kickoffs up to the 35.  But yeah, I don't think he's worth $4 million per.  I just don't like when people jump all over him and say he's completely useless
16 had better averages including one Bill. Another Bill was just a tick below him.