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How should the Bills utilize graham and Goodwin?


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#1 KeepHopeAlive

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:48 AM

:flirt: The bills should take a page from how the Vikings used Percy Harvin to their advantage. Three things; First, they understood their limitations at QB something the bills may have to understand this year as well. Second, they had a great running game as do the Bills, and third they had one of the fastest most agile players on the field in percy harvin. What does this mean for the Bills? Get your fastest most athletic players the ball quickly and in space heck maybe use them in the run game as well. It may be a stretch to be comparing TJ and MG to Percy at all ,but they are some of the fastest players in the game and are of similar stature. I can clearly envision CJ, TJ, and MG (or even Woods) wreaking havoc on opps by getting the ball in space early and often. It may be a screen  pass or a swing pass or just slinging it out to the sideline like the vikings did to percy so often but please lets get our speed guys the ball in space! GO BILLS  http://www.startribu.../173417661.html

Edited by KeepHopeAlive, 10 July 2013 - 09:53 AM.


#2 mrags

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:06 AM

I was thinking they are more like Desean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin of the Iggles.

#3 SaratogaMike

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:16 AM

go long.

next question.

#4 eball

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:52 AM

To borrow a favorite football expression, TG and MG should be utilized to "take the lid off" the opponent's defense.

#5 BILLriant

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:55 AM

when the running game is going well use play action and hope a safety bites as you send these guys long. I don't believe Kolb has the arm to really utilize down field receivers although he has to be an improvement over Fitz. You most likely wont see the field stretched that much until EJ is the full time starter

#6 atlbillsfan1975

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:05 AM

I like the underneath routes in space, but echo the sentiments of Goodwin and Graham need to get open and catch the ball on deep fly patterns. This will do so much to help open up Stevie, Chandler, and Woods.
CJ average yard per carry last year was astonishing when you factor in that teams did not really need to respect the deep ball.

#7 KeepHopeAlive

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:20 AM

View Postatlbillsfan1975, on 08 July 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I like the underneath routes in space, but echo the sentiments of Goodwin and Graham need to get open and catch the ball on deep fly patterns. This will do so much to help open up Stevie, Chandler, and Woods.
CJ average yard per carry last year was astonishing when you factor in that teams did not really need to respect the deep ball.
I agree to the point that if we can stretch the field the with them we should do that as well but I think sending just sending them deep a couple times a game is not capitalizing on how they could have the biggest impact on the game

View PostSaratogaMike, on 08 July 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

go long.

next question.
do you think kickoff return and punt return a possibility for these guys as well?

#8 playman

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:26 AM

friendly flankers

line up outside on our sideline, go deep, step out, the other one in. repeat until the CB on that side falls unconcious

#9 DrDareustein

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:29 AM

By throwing them the ball so they can get in the endzone. Or by throwing them the ball while in the endzone.

Thats what I got.

#10 Leelee Phoenix

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:30 AM

Graham is nothing like Harvin. He's a former track guy that showed a knack for catching the deep ball in college. He's not a shifty runner, nor is he built for that. Then, last year, he dropped a lot of balls and was arguably the worst WR in the NFL. To be fair, his role was wasted under a QB like Fitz. Graham did show separation ability and was open often... although, you could use the Fitz argument there as well and suggest defenses didn't need to respect him.

Goodwin has potential to be a Harvin-like player. But, there's good reason he was drafted where he was. He's 5'8, and is very raw since he was primarily a track star most of his time at Texas. I like drafting the athlete philosophy, but it will require patience. I'm not expecting much from him next year.

#11 GG

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:33 AM

Only throw them touchdown passes?

#12 K-9

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostLeelee Phoenix, on 08 July 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Graham is nothing like Harvin. He's a former track guy that showed a knack for catching the deep ball in college. He's not a shifty runner, nor is he built for that. Then, last year, he dropped a lot of balls and was arguably the worst WR in the NFL. To be fair, his role was wasted under a QB like Fitz. Graham did show separation ability and was open often... although, you could use the Fitz argument there as well and suggest defenses didn't need to respect him.

Goodwin has potential to be a Harvin-like player. But, there's good reason he was drafted where he was. He's 5'8, and is very raw since he was primarily a track star most of his time at Texas. I like drafting the athlete philosophy, but it will require patience. I'm not expecting much from him next year.

I don't care how often a receiver gets open, once he drops enough balls and runs enough improper routes, the QB is gonna give up on him. That clearly happened with Graham last season.

From what little we've seen of this new regime in the OTAs and mini-camp, Marrone wants to pressure defenses constantly with a high tempo offense that gets the defense running from sideline to sideline and then deep; a classic spread 'em and stretch 'em philosophy. Marrone appears to like the middle seams a lot, too.

That's the good news. The bad news is, that type of offense puts pressure on your own guys as well. Takes brains, precision (read timing), and stamina. I hope we're up for it.

GO BILLS!!!

#13 eball

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:48 AM

View PostLeelee Phoenix, on 08 July 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Graham is nothing like Harvin. He's a former track guy that showed a knack for catching the deep ball in college. He's not a shifty runner, nor is he built for that. Then, last year, he dropped a lot of balls and was arguably the worst WR in the NFL. To be fair, his role was wasted under a QB like Fitz. Graham did show separation ability and was open often... although, you could use the Fitz argument there as well and suggest defenses didn't need to respect him.

Goodwin has potential to be a Harvin-like player. But, there's good reason he was drafted where he was. He's 5'8, and is very raw since he was primarily a track star most of his time at Texas. I like drafting the athlete philosophy, but it will require patience. I'm not expecting much from him next year.

Hyperbole much?  Per usual, your takes are overly negative and not very well-informed.  Ask any Texas fan and they'll tell you Goodwin was horribly underutilized in that system.  Just because guys run track doesn't make them "track first" athletes; both Graham and Goodwin will tell you they are football players who also just happen to run track.  Graham did struggle with drops last year and might not have "natural" hands, but all offseason reports concerning his progression from year one to year two have been glowing.

Both of these guys are 3rd round draft picks; teams don't waste picks that high on "track guys" they're trying to teach how to play football.

#14 over 20 years of fanhood

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:36 AM

Interesting topic.  It is very likely Graham and Goodwin both will be able to get open deep, what happens after that is a big question. Can the QB accurately get the ball there?  Can they run under and catch it?
The underneath stuff was what Chans offense did and as opposing defenses likely lost little sleep about what happened when buf WRs got behind their safeties, and were thus able to play closer in there never really ended up being much "space".  Plus those 4 wide sets tended to put the best defensive athletes on the field too which would close down lanes fast.  

It is interesting what you mention about minni.  They had roughly similar strengths and weaknesses and approached it with entirely different formation sets.

#15 papazoid

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

on kickoffs

#16 KeepHopeAlive

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:58 AM

View Postover 20 years of fanhood, on 08 July 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Interesting topic.  It is very likely Graham and Goodwin both will be able to get open deep, what happens after that is a big question. Can the QB accurately get the ball there?  Can they run under and catch it?
The underneath stuff was what Chans offense did and as opposing defenses likely lost little sleep about what happened when buf WRs got behind their safeties, and were thus able to play closer in there never really ended up being much "space".  Plus those 4 wide sets tended to put the best defensive athletes on the field too which would close down lanes fast.  

It is interesting what you mention about minni.  They had roughly similar strengths and weaknesses and approached it with entirely different formation sets.
The great thing is that while minni had no options for deep passes or the qb to make them we might actually have a good deep threat.. so imagine how effective it will be to make teams try to cover a bunch of quick passes and swing passes and throws to the side which will help with qb pressure that kolb or rookie will have trouble with .. then to go deep a few times a game!!

#17 DDD

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:07 PM

They can run but more importantly can they play football?  Was not impressed by Graham last year and Goodwin's collegiate career was underwhelming.  Now the kid from USC looks like he can play.  I expect good things from him.  Graham and Goodwin, not so much.

#18 K-9

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

View PostDDD, on 08 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

They can run but more importantly can they play football?  Was not impressed by Graham last year and Goodwin's collegiate career was underwhelming.  Now the kid from USC looks like he can play.  I expect good things from him.  Graham and Goodwin, not so much.

Goodwin is a football player who ran track. Graham is a track star who plays football. They couldn't be more different as football players. Goodwin is the real deal.

GO BILLS!!!

#19 billsfan89

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:11 PM

Design plays to get both of those guys in space, use end arounds and screens too. I think both guys can flourish if you create for them. I feel like Stevie and possibly/hopefully Woods and Rodgers are guys that can create for themselves while Graham and Goodwin need to have plays designed for them.

I do feel like they might also be able to try big plays down field for them too but those short screens and end arounds are good for them.

#20 The Wiz

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

View PostGG, on 08 July 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Only throw them touchdown passes?
And destroy every fantasy football players team that has Stevie. :nana: