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Carrington should start at DE


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#1 BeefCurtns

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:44 AM

All off season I've heard that Carrington is poised to have a monster year. I think we should cut Anderson who did'nt do diddly befoe he was hurt last yr. He is a big cap number and we can use it for another position of need or maybe put it towards Byrd or next yrs free agents to be. Thoughts?
LV

#2 Dragonborn10

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 02:37 AM

1. They have plenty of cap room to sign any FA they want.  They chose not to resign Levitre and they can make Byrd highest paid safety in theleague if they want.
2. Anderson is not a 3-4 DE.  Dareus, Branch, and Carrington will play those roles.  Anderson is a 4-3 DE.  They will be in the 4-3 over half of the time as the nickel defense, used almost 45% of the time, will be a four man line and they will still use a 4-3 base from time to time.
3. I too am hoping for great things from Carrington.  He was drafted to be a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DT.  
4. The real competition and unknown is the DT and NT rotation.  If Troupe is healthy then he rotates with Kyle Williams at the nose.  If he is not then Branch sees a lot more time at NT.  If Kyle Williams plays NT on running downs more than 50% of the time we are screwed.  MLB is a huge question mark.  Playing a small NT often with our LB's will kill this defense.  Opposing teams will avg 5 yards a carry straight up the gut.

#3 CSBill

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:17 AM

I too believe he will emerge as the starter this year, and this attacking Defensive scheme seems to suit him more. Break-out year, I hope!

#4 machine gun kelly

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:57 AM

Excellent post above, and agreed Kyle Williams is too small for nose.  I thought they were looking at Dareus for nose?

#5 Pablocruise

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:21 AM

I dont think Anderson gets cut..hope this staff can utilize him better. What would the cap hit be if they cut him, how much dead cap money would that create?

#6 NewEra

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:56 AM

View PostDadonkadonk, on 11 July 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

1. They have plenty of cap room to sign any FA they want.  They chose not to resign Levitre and they can make Byrd highest paid safety in theleague if they want.
2. Anderson is not a 3-4 DE.  Dareus, Branch, and Carrington will play those roles.  Anderson is a 4-3 DE.  They will be in the 4-3 over half of the time as the nickel defense, used almost 45% of the time, will be a four man line and they will still use a 4-3 base from time to time.
3. I too am hoping for great things from Carrington.  He was drafted to be a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DT.  
4. The real competition and unknown is the DT and NT rotation.  If Troupe is healthy then he rotates with Kyle Williams at the nose.  If he is not then Branch sees a lot more time at NT.  If Kyle Williams plays NT on running downs more than 50% of the time we are screwed.  MLB is a huge question mark.  Playing a small NT often with our LB's will kill this defense.  Opposing teams will avg 5 yards a carry straight up the gut.

Is Kyle now the starting NT?  I was under the impression it would be dareus (and if not dareus, Branch).

#7 Turbosrrgood

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostLVBillsBackr, on 11 July 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

All off season I've heard that Carrington is poised to have a monster year. I think we should cut Anderson who did'nt do diddly befoe he was hurt last yr. He is a big cap number and we can use it for another position of need or maybe put it towards Byrd or next yrs free agents to be. Thoughts?
LV

I agree, and I think Pettine does too judging from his reps in mini-camp. I thought Carrington was an absolute beast last year, despite only getting spotty playing time. Last year was also the first that he was playing the right position for him. He had to recover from the Edwards debacle where he was forced to play LINE BACKER at 300 + lbs.

I have no doubt Carrington will see plenty of playing time this year, and I think he will be very effective.

I don't however think the "starter" label is necessarily that important, it seems like Pettine will probably rotate guys around and switch up schemes. I think it's just about getting him plenty of playing time, and putting him in a position to succeed.

View PostNewEra, on 11 July 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Is Kyle now the starting NT?  I was under the impression it would be dareus (and if not dareus, Branch).

I'm kind of hoping it will be Dareus for several reasons. 1) He actually played very well there as a rookie, when he was forced into that role due to injury. 2) He is getting huge(er), I'm not sure that this is a good thing, but it's not as bad of a thing for a NT to be his size, as opposed to a DE. 3) I'm a big KW fan, but he is not a NT, and should not be a NT despite his pro bowl season there. He is only 300 lbs and his strength is penetrating, not anchoring or run stuffing.

I also think Branch preferred being a DE in Seattle. I think all of these guys will rotate around to some extent though.

#8 NoSaint

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:23 AM

Wouldn't anderson likely be a pass rusher from 34 olb (think his patriots role)

#9 The Big Cat

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:29 AM

View PostNoSaint, on 11 July 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Wouldn't anderson likely be a pass rusher from 34 olb (think his patriots role)

Yes. Saying we should cut Anderson so Carrigan can get some run at DE is like saying we should trade Freddy Jackson so Lee Smith gets more reps at TE.

#10 BeefCurtns

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:47 AM

View PosttaC giB ehT, on 11 July 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Yes. Saying we should cut Anderson so Carrigan can get some run at DE is like saying we should trade Freddy Jackson so Lee Smith gets more reps at TE.
My point is I believe Anderson is an expensive roster spot thats now expendable BC. We can get the same or better production from younger players.

#11 biglukes

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:53 AM

View PostLVBillsBackr, on 11 July 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:


My point is I believe Anderson is an expensive roster spot thats now expendable BC. We can get the same or better production from younger players.
Not really, other than Mario, our pass rush is a question mark. I'm not ready to cut the second best pass rusher on the team, that we only signed last year, on the hope that a young guy can go the same thing. We've barely seen Anderson anyways because of his injury last year.

His salary isn't prohibiting the team from doing anything, and he is a solid vet on a young defense. I don't see any benefit to cutting him.

#12 metzelaars_lives

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:56 AM

View PostDadonkadonk, on 11 July 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

1. They have plenty of cap room to sign any FA they want.  They chose not to resign Levitre and they can make Byrd highest paid safety in theleague if they want.
2. Anderson is not a 3-4 DE.  Dareus, Branch, and Carrington will play those roles.  Anderson is a 4-3 DE.  They will be in the 4-3 over half of the time as the nickel defense, used almost 45% of the time, will be a four man line and they will still use a 4-3 base from time to time.
3. I too am hoping for great things from Carrington.  He was drafted to be a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DT.  
4. The real competition and unknown is the DT and NT rotation.  If Troupe is healthy then he rotates with Kyle Williams at the nose.  If he is not then Branch sees a lot more time at NT.  If Kyle Williams plays NT on running downs more than 50% of the time we are screwed.  MLB is a huge question mark.  Playing a small NT often with our LB's will kill this defense.  Opposing teams will avg 5 yards a carry straight up the gut.

I agree with most of what you say, but:

a) I don't care what Carrington was drafted to play, he broke out last year as a 4-3 DT and it clearly looked like his natural position.  But I think you'd probably agree that football players are football players (successful teams like the Ravens and Steelers roll this way) and if Carrington's a football player then he will continue to progress no matter where he plays.

b) Also, people love to forget that Kyle Williams' best season was as a straight up NT in 2010.  That season was when he was rated like the best defensive player on PFF, made his first pro bowl and was really the season that made him thought of as the player he is today.  Does anyone remember just how dominant he was in that game against the Steelers?!?!?  The Stevie drop game?  It was literally- and I'm not being hyperbolic- the best single game performance I've ever seen by a Bills defensive player in my life.  And I go back awhile.  But alas, I think he's lost a step due to injuries.  I just think that, again, you're overthinking the positional aspect of it.

#13 stony

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:00 AM

View Postbiglukes, on 11 July 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Not really, other than Mario, our pass rush is a question mark. I'm not ready to cut the second best pass rusher on the team, that we only signed last year, on the hope that a young guy can go the same thing. We've barely seen Anderson anyways because of his injury last year.

His salary isn't prohibiting the team from doing anything, and he is a solid vet on a young defense. I don't see any benefit to cutting him.

Anderson has a very "Leino-esque" mystique/quality about him and I mean that in a good way. I wanna see what we've got with him before we throw him to the curb.

Edited by stony, 11 July 2013 - 09:01 AM.


#14 NoSaint

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:07 AM

View PostLVBillsBackr, on 11 July 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:


My point is I believe Anderson is an expensive roster spot thats now expendable BC. We can get the same or better production from younger players.

but if they dont play the same position..... and we arent pressed for money.....

#15 Turbosrrgood

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:40 AM

I thought Anderson was hugely overrated and over paid when we signed him. He basically has had 1 good year in his career, and was never a full time starter. He won't be a starter here either...He certainly could be a cut candidate.

#16 HankBulloughMellencamp

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:25 AM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 11 July 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I agree with most of what you say, but:

a) I don't care what Carrington was drafted to play, he broke out last year as a 4-3 DT and it clearly looked like his natural position.  But I think you'd probably agree that football players are football players (successful teams like the Ravens and Steelers roll this way) and if Carrington's a football player then he will continue to progress no matter where he plays.

b) Also, people love to forget that Kyle Williams' best season was as a straight up NT in 2010.  That season was when he was rated like the best defensive player on PFF, made his first pro bowl and was really the season that made him thought of as the player he is today.  Does anyone remember just how dominant he was in that game against the Steelers?!?!?  The Stevie drop game?  It was literally- and I'm not being hyperbolic- the best single game performance I've ever seen by a Bills defensive player in my life.  And I go back awhile.  But alas, I think he's lost a step due to injuries.  I just think that, again, you're overthinking the positional aspect of it.

I am not disagreeing, but would like to point out the incredible performance turned in by Pat Williams in his last game as a Bill, which was also a heart-wrenching loss to the Steelers on home soil.  He was all over the field ... in the backfield all day, stuffing then-unknown Willie Parker runs (except that one big one) and getting pressure on St. Pierre of all QBs.  Big #93 was on his final audition for a life-changing contract - which unfortunately for us, he got from the Vikings instead of from Tom Donahoe.

And I definitely agree on your first point - a good football player is a good football player ... scheme is not irrelevant, but it is too often seen as an explanation/excuse by fans.  It's too easy to chalk up a player's success/failure to the scheme and/or what they may have done in the past.  Our own Mario Williams had never played OLB in a 3-4 before Wade came to Houston, and he performed rather well in that scheme before getting injured.

If you can win your individual battles, you will make an impact on any defense.  This is precisely why I could not stand Kelvin Sheppard as a player - I can not ever remember seeing him shed a blocker and make a tackle.  It doesn't matter to me if some say he is a 4-3 guy or a 3-4 ... who cares, he seemed to stick to offensive linemen and get negated on the vast majority of his one-on-one battles.

View Poststony, on 11 July 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Anderson has a very "Leino-esque" mystique/quality about him and I mean that in a good way. I wanna see what we've got with him before we throw him to the curb.

Head of nail, meet Mr. Hammer.

#17 RealityCheck

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:32 AM

If Anderson is healthy and utilized the same way that the Jets tried to use Maybin, he could do a lot of damage.

#18 Turbosrrgood

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:39 AM

View PostRealityCheck, on 11 July 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

If Anderson is healthy and utilized the same way that the Jets tried to use Maybin, he could do a lot of damage.

Comparing him to Maybin doesn't do a lot to prop him up as a contributor. Certainly not with his 28M dollar contract.

Despite Maybin's fluke stretch where he had 6 sacks (basically blitzing like an extra DB), he amassed a total of 1 tackle no sacks in 10 games last year.

Edited by Turbosrrgood, 11 July 2013 - 10:44 AM.


#19 DDD

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:41 AM

What has Carrington shown in 3 years other than an ability to block a point after attempt?  Seriously!   Some poster named Mr. Nix insisted Carrington would be better than Phil Hansen a few days after the draft. Oops!

#20 Turbosrrgood

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostDDD, on 11 July 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

What has Carrington shown in 3 years other than an ability to block a point after attempt?  Seriously!   Some poster named Mr. Nix insisted Carrington would be better than Phil Hansen a few days after the draft. Oops!

He was very effective last year despite not getting a ton of playing time.

In his first 2 years, he was forced to play LB even though he was a 300+ lb defensive lineman.

Let's give him some more playing time at his natural position before we start freaking out.

Glad you noticed his impact on special teams though.

Edited by Turbosrrgood, 11 July 2013 - 11:13 AM.