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Johnny Manziel: "Too many red flags."


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#1 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:37 PM

Peter King's take on the Dan Patrick show.

http://sports.yahoo....ocid.yahoo.html

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#2 metzelaars_lives

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Jim Kelly, blah, blah, blah.  I will laugh if a team passes on Manziel (provided he has another season like last season) because of "red flags."  It won't happen though, it's a story to take up space that isn't even a story.  And please don't combat my point with Pacman Jones or Lawrence Phillips or Aaron Hernandez.  Johnny Manziel isn't going to shoot anyone.  He's a young punk right now but chances are very strong that he will be a mature young NFL QB five years from now.  Non-story.

#3 Fan in San Diego

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:08 PM

He could be another Todd Marinovich.

#4 Meatloaf Sandwich

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:08 PM

I don't think he will be good in the NFL anyway.

#5 Pete

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:34 PM

Imagine if Babe Ruth was put under the microscope like these kids.  I want football players for the Bills, and don't give two shits if they enjoy beer

#6 stony

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:37 PM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 23 July 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Jim Kelly, blah, blah, blah.  I will laugh if a team passes on Manziel (provided he has another season like last season) because of "red flags."  It won't happen though, it's a story to take up space that isn't even a story.  And please don't combat my point with Pacman Jones or Lawrence Phillips or Aaron Hernandez.  Johnny Manziel isn't going to shoot anyone.  He's a young punk right now but chances are very strong that he will be a mature young NFL QB five years from now.  Non-story.

Agreed. Problem is, I just don't think he's that good. I'd be more worried about his arm-strength/size than his party-skills.

#7 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:51 PM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 23 July 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Jim Kelly, blah, blah, blah.  I will laugh if a team passes on Manziel (provided he has another season like last season) because of "red flags."  It won't happen though, it's a story to take up space that isn't even a story.  And please don't combat my point with Pacman Jones or Lawrence Phillips or Aaron Hernandez.  Johnny Manziel isn't going to shoot anyone.  He's a young punk right now but chances are very strong that he will be a mature young NFL QB five years from now.  Non-story.

this

#8 FluffHead

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostBuffaloFood, on 23 July 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

I don't think he will be good in the NFL anyway.

Agreed. Short and has a weak arm. All of his big plays come on playground style plays. And yes I know the short and weak arm was said about Russell Wilson, but Manziel's intangibles are nowhere near Wilson's.

#9 Kellyto83TD

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:08 PM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 23 July 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Jim Kelly, blah, blah, blah.  I will laugh if a team passes on Manziel (provided he has another season like last season) because of "red flags."  It won't happen though, it's a story to take up space that isn't even a story.  And please don't combat my point with Pacman Jones or Lawrence Phillips or Aaron Hernandez.  Johnny Manziel isn't going to shoot anyone.  He's a young punk right now but chances are very strong that he will be a mature young NFL QB five years from now.  Non-story.

Disagree completely. The guys you list didn't have anywhere near this long of a list of issues, AND all that you listed had geat talent. Johnny M is short at 6'0" and does not have a strong arm (so no wilson comparrisons). He is an over hyped thug that will be exposed this year. Anyone taking this kid in the first round is flat out stupid.

#10 Best Player Available

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:08 PM

Yep, kids drinking in college, who would have thunk it? good thing the Bills stayed away from that Alaonso character. Wait? Huh.

#11 FluffHead

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

I think Texas AM is prime for a letdown season. Not sure what their over/under is in Vegas but ill take the under.

#12 section122

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

View Postmetzelaars_lives, on 23 July 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, Jim Kelly, blah, blah, blah.  I will laugh if a team passes on Manziel (provided he has another season like last season) because of "red flags."  It won't happen though, it's a story to take up space that isn't even a story.  And please don't combat my point with Pacman Jones or Lawrence Phillips or Aaron Hernandez.  Johnny Manziel isn't going to shoot anyone.  He's a young punk right now but chances are very strong that he will be a mature young NFL QB five years from now.  Non-story.
I don't understand how you can use players to prove your point but not allow players to disprove your point.

As I said in the "other thread" he isn't a lock to go #1 let alone be the #1 qb taken in this draft.  He isn't the physical specimen Cam Newton is.  Red flags are red flags regardless of what they are.  Manziel is 6'1 200 lbs and Newton is 6'5 245 right off the bat manziel is an injury risk with his style of play.  Add in the fact that poor decision making (I don't care how bad you think his transgressions are - you can't argue they're poor choices) is not what you want from your qb.

There are plenty of things to be concerned about including what will happen to this kid when he signs his contract and has millions?  Will his body hold up?  Will the team have to spend all week answering questions about his latest incident?  Will he show up to practice not hung over?

He has plenty of time to straighten this out but that is up to him.  Whether he want to be the next Jamarcus Russell or if he would prefer to be Russell Wilson.

#13 stony

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostBest Player Available, on 23 July 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Yep, kids drinking in college, who would have thunk it? good thing the Bills stayed away from that Alaonso character. Wait? Huh.

LB=vicious, athletic position. QB=most demanding, cerebral perhaps in all of sports.

It's not the booze, it's the attitude and indifference he seems to display at all times.

#14 justnzane

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:41 PM

View PostPete, on 23 July 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

Imagine if Babe Ruth was put under the microscope like these kids.  I want football players for the Bills, and don't give two shits if they enjoy beer

Do you think Babe Ruth would have made it through a 162 game season with the athletes on the diamonds of today? Do you think he'd be booming out balls off of pitchers like Kershaw and Verlander while hitting over .300?

Ruth would be getting a lot of K's while being too fat to be on the field, meaning he'd have to be a DH. Nevermind, he'd probably be getting arrested for DWI's and drunk and disorderly conduct.

#15 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

All this may be true but if you pick him #1 and he winds up like Ryan Leaf then everyone will say you were stupid for ignoring the red flags.  But attitude issues are never a good sign.  All the Johnny Football crap is going to his head.

PTR

#16 Meatloaf Sandwich

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:18 PM

Future cast- Johnny Manziel misses week 1 of the NFL b.c he is "Dehydrated"

#17 KD in CT

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:15 PM

What a load of horse ****.  No is going to pass on him because he goes out for a few pops.  If they aren't going to draft him it's going to be because of FluffHead's assessment above (to the extent teams agree with that assessment).

And just because Russell Wilson is good doesn't mean NFL teams are going to stop caring about QBs being too short.  Especially if the QB has questionable arm strength.

#18 Mr. WEO

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:24 PM

Wasn't Peter King's take on this posted here days ago?  Old news.


View PostFluffHead, on 23 July 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Agreed. Short and has a weak arm. All of his big plays come on playground style plays. And yes I know the short and weak arm was said about Russell Wilson, but Manziel's intangibles are nowhere near Wilson's.

You made that conclusion after seeing Wilson play for 5 years in college and a year in the NFL. This kid Manziel must have had a lot of "big plays" in the "playground".  Look up his stats last year.

#19 FluffHead

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:32 PM

View PostMr. WEO, on 23 July 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

Wasn't Peter King's take on this posted here days ago?  Old news.




You made that conclusion after seeing Wilson play for 5 years in college and a year in the NFL. This kid Manziel must have had a lot of "big plays" in the "playground".  Look up his stats last year.

I dont need to "look up the stats" because I've seen him play numerous times. "Look up the stats" of Kliff Kingsbury or Case Keenum who both played in that same offense and tell me how they did in the NFL.

He doesn't make a lot of plays in the flow of the play.  That is a detriment at the NFL level because it is harder to ad lib when the defense is faster.

He's going to enter the draft next April and its clear his intangibles are not on par with Wilson's, so what does it matter that Wilson played 5 years of college?

Edited by FluffHead, 23 July 2013 - 04:34 PM.


#20 K-9

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:55 PM

View PostFluffHead, on 23 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

I dont need to "look up the stats" because I've seen him play numerous times. "Look up the stats" of Kliff Kingsbury or Case Keenum who both played in that same offense and tell me how they did in the NFL.

He doesn't make a lot of plays in the flow of the play.  That is a detriment at the NFL level because it is harder to ad lib when the defense is faster.

He's going to enter the draft next April and its clear his intangibles are not on par with Wilson's, so what does it matter that Wilson played 5 years of college?

Nobody knows if he'll enter the draft or not. Way too early.

The comparisons to Wilson aren't fair. Wilson has always been a mature kid and team leader. But that five years of seasoning did him a ton of good, regardless.

But if we insist on comparing them, who was the better QB as a college freshman? Regardless of how Manziel made his plays, he set records in the most competitive conference in the land, including beating the national champs on their home field. Nothing to sneeze at.

He may end up a flash in the pan, but there's no taking away that incredible,  Heismann trophy season. It's in the books forever.

GO BILLS!!!