Jump to content


Why Hasn't the Team Used its Cap Space to Extend Players?


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#1 Gabe Northern

Gabe Northern

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 525 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:58 AM

If the Bills were serious about building a winner, they would use their $20 M of 2013 cap space to extend Wood and/or Spiller.  Roster bonuses only count against the cap in their year they are paid so they could spend up to $20 M in roster bonuses as part of multi-year extensions with no effect on the cap in 2014 and beyond.

The Bills had sufficient cap room to sign both Levitre and Byrd.  If they elected to use that cap space for other purposes, that would be one thing.  But instead they just simply squandered it and got "atta boys" from plenty of people on this Board for doing so.  They even moved $1.6 M of Anderson's dead money into 2014 when they could have eaten it all in 2013 and kept more money for next year.

Also, i people think that Levitre and Byrd were too expensive, you have to realize that was partly because they did not extend these players before their contracts expired.  You can get concessions from the player if you don't make them risk injury in a contract year and increase guarantees.

#2 thebandit27

thebandit27

    Armchair Dynasty Architect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,397 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

View PostGabe Northern, on 26 July 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

If the Bills were serious about building a winner, they would use their $20 M of 2013 cap space to extend Wood and/or Spiller.  Roster bonuses only count against the cap in their year they are paid so they could spend up to $20 M in roster bonuses as part of multi-year extensions with no effect on the cap in 2014 and beyond.

The Bills had sufficient cap room to sign both Levitre and Byrd.  If they elected to use that cap space for other purposes, that would be one thing.  But instead they just simply squandered it and got "atta boys" from plenty of people on this Board for doing so.  They even moved $1.6 M of Anderson's dead money into 2014 when they could have eaten it all in 2013 and kept more money for next year.

Also, i people think that Levitre and Byrd were too expensive, you have to realize that was partly because they did not extend these players before their contracts expired.  You can get concessions from the player if you don't make them risk injury in a contract year and increase guarantees.

I expect they will attempt to, but likely want to see how the roster shakes out with regard to possible cap casualties/veteran cuts in order to have a better grasp on their cap situation.

At least that's what would make sense to me

#3 BillsFan-4-Ever

BillsFan-4-Ever

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,691 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:03 PM

Because RALPH IS CHEAP!!!

#4 roush

roush

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,337 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:07 PM

100% commitment to win.

#5 NoSaint

NoSaint

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,368 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:21 PM

after designating fitz a june 1 and rolling his hit into next year, coupled with us not being able to keep rolling the unspent dollars from last year... if they dont get very close to the cap i will be HIGHLY disappointed.

if they arent within 7m of this years cap and let fitzs hit get pushed to 2014 instead of eating it now i will be bordering on livid about it.

#6 Meatloaf Sandwich

Meatloaf Sandwich

    RFA

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 932 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:22 PM

Please god do not extend Wood till he shows us he can play a full season healthy. Please also wait till CJ can show he can handle this year.

#7 Dorkington

Dorkington

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,054 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostGabe Northern, on 26 July 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

If the Bills were serious about building a winner, they would use their $20 M of 2013 cap space to extend Wood and/or Spiller.  Roster bonuses only count against the cap in their year they are paid so they could spend up to $20 M in roster bonuses as part of multi-year extensions with no effect on the cap in 2014 and beyond.

The Bills had sufficient cap room to sign both Levitre and Byrd.  If they elected to use that cap space for other purposes, that would be one thing.  But instead they just simply squandered it and got "atta boys" from plenty of people on this Board for doing so.  They even moved $1.6 M of Anderson's dead money into 2014 when they could have eaten it all in 2013 and kept more money for next year.

Also, i people think that Levitre and Byrd were too expensive, you have to realize that was partly because they did not extend these players before their contracts expired.  You can get concessions from the player if you don't make them risk injury in a contract year and increase guarantees.

You can stop right there.

It's a business. They don't really care about making a winner as long as fans show up to games and buy merchandise. And, as far as I can tell, they are still doing both (including myself!). :)

#8 eball

eball

    Omar Sly

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,571 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:50 PM

Right now the organization is focusing on walking.  Chewing gum comes later in the fall.

#9 MDFan

MDFan

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 962 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

View PostGabe Northern, on 26 July 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:



Also, i people think that Levitre and Byrd were too expensive, you have to realize that was partly because they did not extend these players before their contracts expired.  You can get concessions from the player if you don't make them risk injury in a contract year and increase guarantees.
Neither player was interested in negotiating a long term extension last year.  Per their own public comments, they intended to test free agency and let the market set their value.  Throwing numbers at players if they are intent on testing free agency is simply negotiating against yourself.  We do not know what Spiller and Wood are thinking or their agents are saying.  As for Spiller, I am sure the Bills are interested.  As for Wood, they probably want him to prove he can stay healthy for an entire season before bestowing big bucks on him.

Still do not think Levitre was worth keeping at that price and the Byrd situation has not yet run its course.  I hope the Bills hold the line and force his hand.

#10 Aaron

Aaron

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,363 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 26 July 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

after designating fitz a june 1 and rolling his hit into next year, coupled with us not being able to keep rolling the unspent dollars from last year... if they dont get very close to the cap i will be HIGHLY disappointed.

if they arent within 7m of this years cap and let fitzs hit get pushed to 2014 instead of eating it now i will be bordering on livid about it.

100% agreed. Don't understand the decision to roll the Fitzpenalty into next year.

#11 BillsVet

BillsVet

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,178 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

View PostMDFan, on 26 July 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Neither player was interested in negotiating a long term extension last year.  Per their own public comments, they intended to test free agency and let the market set their value.  Throwing numbers at players if they are intent on testing free agency is simply negotiating against yourself.  We do not know what Spiller and Wood are thinking or their agents are saying.  As for Spiller, I am sure the Bills are interested.  As for Wood, they probably want him to prove he can stay healthy for an entire season before bestowing big bucks on him.

Still do not think Levitre was worth keeping at that price and the Byrd situation has not yet run its course.  I hope the Bills hold the line and force his hand.

Who's responsible for initiating contract talks?  Is it the team or agent?  I would expect the team to do this, not the agent.  And if there's one thing I know, information leaks whenever a team engages in contract negotiations.  That didn't happen in neither Levitre's nor Byrd's case.

Another concept lost among many here is you don't begin negotiating when against a wall.  Does it make sense to begin negotiations a month before the player hits UFA or more than a year before when they don't have the security of a long term contract?  Put yourself in a player's shoes for a moment.  I don't see a player like Levitre getting the deal he got in March if Buffalo had begun negotiations early in the 2012 off-season.

Finally, among home-grown players who are proven, who has Buffalo signed before the player reached their walk-year?  The decision on Levitre or Byrd should have been made before the 2011 season concluded.  And if, at that point they decided against retaining the player, they should have have a player in mind to step in or how to address the position in UFA or the draft.  Instead, we typically get an unproven young player

This seems harsh to some surface level fans, but we're talking the NFL here.  It's not building a fantasy football team with keepers.

#12 first_and_ten

first_and_ten

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,173 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 26 July 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

after designating fitz a june 1 and rolling his hit into next year, coupled with us not being able to keep rolling the unspent dollars from last year... if they dont get very close to the cap i will be HIGHLY disappointed.

if they arent within 7m of this years cap and let fitzs hit get pushed to 2014 instead of eating it now i will be bordering on livid about it.

Good point. be prepared to be livid.

#13 Gabe Northern

Gabe Northern

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 525 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostBillsVet, on 26 July 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:


The decision on Levitre or Byrd should have been made before the 2011 season concluded.  And if, at that point they decided against retaining the player, they should have have a player in mind to step in or how to address the position in UFA or the draft.

This is exactly right.

Every time a guy leaves it somehow comes as a huge friggin surprise and the team has to scramble to fill the position.

Everyone was focused on debating whether or not to pay Jason Peters, but if you knew in 2008 that you weren't going to pay him, why no Plan B in 2009?  That same situation played out with Levitre, as we now have two borderline NFL players battling it out for the position.  Poz's departure necessitated the drafting of Sheppard...

#14 Kellyto83TD

Kellyto83TD

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,014 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:16 PM

Neither Levitre or Byrd are worth the money.

Wood is often injured, MAYBE they want to see if he can make it through a full season healthy?

CJ will get paid but at what price? He isn't AP and never will be so he won't see AP Type money. Problem is he and his agent will say and think he is the best and that causes issues.

Honestly I wouldnt' extend anyone at this point either. Wait until into the season and see how they are progressing. Inintialize contact with the agent and see what #'s they are thinking. If they are stupid #'s like Livitre or Byrd wants, forget it.

#15 Kirby Jackson

Kirby Jackson

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,251 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostNoSaint, on 26 July 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

after designating fitz a june 1 and rolling his hit into next year, coupled with us not being able to keep rolling the unspent dollars from last year... if they dont get very close to the cap i will be HIGHLY disappointed.

if they arent within 7m of this years cap and let fitzs hit get pushed to 2014 instead of eating it now i will be bordering on livid about it.

This!!! You are 100% spot on. It's one thing to not spend to the cap and it is insanity to not spend to the cap because you deferred cap hits for no reason.

#16 Aaron

Aaron

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,363 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostBillsVet, on 26 July 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:



Who's responsible for initiating contract talks?  Is it the team or agent?  I would expect the team to do this, not the agent.  And if there's one thing I know, information leaks whenever a team engages in contract negotiations.  That didn't happen in neither Levitre's nor Byrd's case.

Another concept lost among many here is you don't begin negotiating when against a wall.  Does it make sense to begin negotiations a month before the player hits UFA or more than a year before when they don't have the security of a long term contract?  Put yourself in a player's shoes for a moment.  I don't see a player like Levitre getting the deal he got in March if Buffalo had begun negotiations early in the 2012 off-season.

Finally, among home-grown players who are proven, who has Buffalo signed before the player reached their walk-year?  The decision on Levitre or Byrd should have been made before the 2011 season concluded.  And if, at that point they decided against retaining the player, they should have have a player in mind to step in or how to address the position in UFA or the draft.  Instead, we typically get an unproven young player

This seems harsh to some surface level fans, but we're talking the NFL here.  It's not building a fantasy football team with keepers.

Seems fair in my opinion. A lot of mistakes were made during the time that Wilson was President, Nix was General Manager, and Whaley was Assistant GM / Pro Personnel Director.

Perhaps their two biggest mistakes were hiring a retread HC who was completely off the NFL radar, and refusing to draft a real QB prospect.

By contrast, after Russ Brandon became President, the Bills hired the hottest head coaching candidate on the market (that according to Schefter; at the very least, one of the two or three most sought-after candidates leaguewide). They then selected a quarterback with their first draft pick for the first time in franchise history.

I'm not saying different automatically equals better, it doesn't. But if new people being promoted to power results in A and B changing, it's possible that C is about to change too. It's also possible that the President/GM team of Brandon and Whaley will be no more aggressive than Wilson and Nix were with respect to extending talent before the end of their contract. At this point we just don't know.

#17 K-9

K-9

    Long Timer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,146 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:58 PM

View PostBillsVet, on 26 July 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Who's responsible for initiating contract talks?  Is it the team or agent?  I would expect the team to do this, not the agent.  And if there's one thing I know, information leaks whenever a team engages in contract negotiations.  That didn't happen in neither Levitre's nor Byrd's case.

Another concept lost among many here is you don't begin negotiating when against a wall.  Does it make sense to begin negotiations a month before the player hits UFA or more than a year before when they don't have the security of a long term contract?  Put yourself in a player's shoes for a moment.  I don't see a player like Levitre getting the deal he got in March if Buffalo had begun negotiations early in the 2012 off-season.

Finally, among home-grown players who are proven, who has Buffalo signed before the player reached their walk-year?  The decision on Levitre or Byrd should have been made before the 2011 season concluded.  And if, at that point they decided against retaining the player, they should have have a player in mind to step in or how to address the position in UFA or the draft.  Instead, we typically get an unproven young player

This seems harsh to some surface level fans, but we're talking the NFL here.  It's not building a fantasy football team with keepers.

Pipe dream. When a player refers to his impending free agency as his "once in a lifetime opportunity" no amount of money, short of highest paid at his position, is going to prevent him from doing exactly that. And while both may have indicated their "desire" to stay in Buffalo, nobody seems to have heard the accompanying "if".

GO BILLS!!!

#18 Coach Tuesday

Coach Tuesday

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,880 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 05:07 PM

View PostKellyto83TD, on 26 July 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Neither Levitre or Byrd are worth the money.

Wood is often injured, MAYBE they want to see if he can make it through a full season healthy?

CJ will get paid but at what price? He isn't AP and never will be so he won't see AP Type money. Problem is he and his agent will say and think he is the best and that causes issues.

Honestly I wouldnt' extend anyone at this point either. Wait until into the season and see how they are progressing. Inintialize contact with the agent and see what #'s they are thinking. If they are stupid #'s like Livitre or Byrd wants, forget it.

You fully deserve the crap product you experience at The Ralph.

#19 jahnyc

jahnyc

    RFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,085 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 05:10 PM

I had the sense that Levitre wanted to stay, but it seemed that the Bills were not interested in keeping him, at least at the dollars that Levitre was looking for.  I have always thought that Byrd did not want to be here.  Could be wrong, maybe it is only about the money the Bills are offering, but Parker will force a divorce.

I would have re-signed Levitre and I would press to re-sign Byrd.  I do agree that we need to see that Wood can be healthy for a season before re-signing him.  He has had two very tough injuries and I do have concerns about this ability to play over the long term.

We will see about Spiller.

We really should not be losing homegrown talent with the cap space that we have and our poor record with signing free agents.

#20 eme123

eme123

    Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 468 posts

Posted 26 July 2013 - 05:22 PM

I would rather they kept as much cap room available as possible. What if the injury plague smacks us during the season?

Cap room = Options

What are they going to go out today and sign some available FA's to get up to the cap? If they don't have a team now they suck!