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anyone worried about the running game?


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#1 enlightener

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:53 AM

since week 1 all we do is hand the ball off, the RB runs a little off tackle and gets dragged down after a yard, maybe on a good run we get 3.   The skins seemed to get 8 yards per carry or so.  Whats with our run game?

#2 Teen Insight

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:59 AM

An offensive line that wasn't as good as last year might be a problem.

#3 Dorkington

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:07 AM

Weaker offensive line, and poor play calling. So far, I liked Chan's offense better, heh.

#4 Mark Vader

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:09 AM

Not worried.

I will say that I do not like seeing Fred Jackson running designed plays to the outside. He should be running up the middle.

#5 hondo in seattle

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:10 AM

I think Chan was a better de facto OC than most people give him credit for.   When Chan came to Buffalo, we had a poor line, no QB worth mentioning, a forgettable TE, one WR with talent and a couple good RBs.  Somehow he got some decent production out of that.

CJ averaged 6 yards per carry last year partly because Chan didn't run him until he puked.  Chan carefully picked the optimal times and optimal plays to use CJ.

And now Levitre is gone.  So, yeah, I am worried about the running game.

Then again, it's only preseason.  We don't know yet how effectively Marrone & Hackett will maximize the talent they do have.

#6 Fan in San Diego

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:19 AM

we should have paid Levetre the $2 mil extra. I don't like watching Spiller run between the tackles, he is an outside runner. Let Summers or Fred run between the tackles.

#7 Dean Cain

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:24 AM

You guys are forgetting the no. 1 reason we sucked, no franchise QB yesterday. In EJ we trust

#8 TaskersGhost

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:28 AM

View Postenlightener, on 25 August 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

since week 1 all we do is hand the ball off, the RB runs a little off tackle and gets dragged down after a yard, maybe on a good run we get 3.   The skins seemed to get 8 yards per carry or so.  Whats with our run game?

Spiller cannot do what he did last season, average 6.0 ypg, while getting full-time touches.  If he does then he'll be considered one of history's best NFL RBs, but his past suggests that won't happen.  Who knows how he'll play this season, but in the few games last year in which he had 20+ runs, he averaged only 4.2 ypc, a very average number.  I expect that he'll be closer to that than to the the 6.0.

This preseason he's essentially had two decent runs of 17 and 19 but not done much else and we know he's not great in short yardage situations.

So I think we're simply seeing what happens when teams focus on Spiller primarily.  We haven't even faced any of last year's top 10 Ds this preaseason.  Indy and Washington were bad last year on D and Minnesota very average.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but that is a strong possibility and needs to be considered.  Me sitting here and insisting that Spiller's gonna get his 2K yards and 20 TDs won't change one lick of that although if it were to happen I'd be tickled pink.  Given this team's track record my hopes are much more conservatively rooted.

As well, as I said this coaching staff can't even seem to figure out the simplest of things regarding how their no-huddle hurry-up offense will impact a D that wasn't good last year.  Is that to be respected and praised?  I dont' think so, I think it deserves to be criticized and pointed out.

View PostFan in San Diego, on 25 August 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

we should have paid Levetre the $2 mil extra. I don't like watching Spiller run between the tackles, he is an outside runner. Let Summers or Fred run between the tackles.

Agreed.

Also should have paid Byrd.  But you know better, we don't pay players like that that kind of money, that's reserved for Fitzpatrick (whose contract Whaley had nothing to do with as Nix's top asst. apparently), Mario, and Dockery.

Still, he was a Guard, not at Tackle, and the loss should be able to be dealt with, particularly since Spiller's not an UTM runner.

View PostDorkington, on 25 August 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Weaker offensive line, and poor play calling. So far, I liked Chan's offense better, heh.

Well, we've all pretty much said or at least thought that it can't possibly get any worse, so if it does then we have to begin to think that this is yet another deja vu situation regarding Marrone and his staff.

We'll know soon enough.

#9 Mark Vader

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:31 AM

View PostFan in San Diego, on 25 August 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

we should have paid Levetre the $2 mil extra. I don't like watching Spiller run between the tackles, he is an outside runner. Let Summers or Fred run between the tackles.
But....but....but....Guards are a dime a dozen! :wallbash:

#10 TaskersGhost

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:35 AM

View Posthondo in seattle, on 25 August 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I think Chan was a better de facto OC than most people give him credit for.   When Chan came to Buffalo, we had a poor line, no QB worth mentioning, a forgettable TE, one WR with talent and a couple good RBs.  Somehow he got some decent production out of that.

CJ averaged 6 yards per carry last year partly because Chan didn't run him until he puked.  Chan carefully picked the optimal times and optimal plays to use CJ.

And now Levitre is gone.  So, yeah, I am worried about the running game.

Then again, it's only preseason.  We don't know yet how effectively Marrone & Hackett will maximize the talent they do have.

Again, when he did "run him 'til he puked,"  i.e., in games where he had 20+ carries, his average dipped from 6.9 ypc to 4.2 ypc.

I think that's very relevant.  Who cares if he pukes, if he's only averaging 4.2 ypc without any UTM skills, that's below average.

Anyone can prematurely deny that that's going to happen but the simple fact is that we have no idea how he's going to play under the circumstances of regularly getting near or greater than 20 carries/game, much less with opposing DC's now fully aware of his capability from last season with a season's worth of tape to study too.

It would hardly be the first time that a QB or RB had such a good season but then failed to follow it up with anything even close.

View PostBigCountryBills, on 25 August 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

You guys are forgetting the no. 1 reason we sucked, no franchise QB yesterday. In EJ we trust

The D sucking last year had little to do with Fitz.  It had a lot more to do with a vacuous LB corps, that may be even less capable this season, underachievement from Dareus and Mario the reasons for which are irrelevant, and only one decent CB.

While Manuel's numbers are good for a rookie, he's hardly played any first team Ds and when he did he didn't play well, his good numbers came more against 2nd-teams.  

I'm hopeful too, but we won't know for a bit.  But right now it's safe to say that the team is playing worse on both sides of the ball.

#11 BADOLBEELZ

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:43 AM

View PostBigCountryBills, on 25 August 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

You guys are forgetting the no. 1 reason we sucked, no franchise QB yesterday. In EJ we trust

Yes, this.

Fred Jackson is a shadow of the player he was last year and the man love for CJ Spiller......"hall of famer, once in a decade talent"....is getting a bit out of hand.

Bottom line:  you don't win games with the running game in the NFL.

It is about the QB.

If EJ is the man.....the way he has looked so far this pre-season.....the offense will be OK even if Spiller skins his knee or gets a shoulder boo-boo like when he fell on himself in Cleveland last year.

That said, the team needs to remember that RB's are a dime-a-dozen but you gotta' apply a dime once in a while.   If this team used more 4th-7th round picks and priority FA dollars on running backs instead of using a first rounder every 3-4 years they might just find another Fred Jackson.

You just need productive RB's....not superstars....to win in the NFL.

#12 CodeMonkey

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:50 AM

View PostBigCountryBills, on 25 August 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

You guys are forgetting the no. 1 reason we sucked, no franchise QB yesterday. In EJ we trust
That does not affect the running game ... and either did the skins yesterday.

The Bills running game does not concern me much as long as Spiller stays healthy.
However, the Bills opponents being able to run at will against the Bills D is very concerning.

#13 Jerry Jabber

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:52 AM

The Bills will miss Levitre this year at LG as he was good at opening holes in the run game and getting to the 2nd level to take on defenders. IMO, I hope the Bills use their 1st round pick on a solid LT and move Glenn over to LG (as Mike Mayock suggested). With Glenn's size, I feel he would easily be a pro-bowl Guard.

View PostCodeMonkey, on 25 August 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

That does not affect the running game ... and either did the skins yesterday.

The Bills running game does not concern me much as long as Spiller stays healthy.
However, the Bills opponents being able to run at will against the Bills D is very concerning.

I agree. I know the Redskins had the #1 rush offense last year, but it looked like the exact same Bills defense was in there from a year ago. I would of hated to have seen the stats if RGIII played for a full half yesterday.

#14 TaskersGhost

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:56 AM

View PostMark Vader, on 25 August 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Not worried.

I will say that I do not like seeing Fred Jackson running designed plays to the outside. He should be running up the middle.

I don't know about that, he's always been more versatile than Spiller was last year.  I think at 32, and despite his "low mileage," age has crept up to him and slowed him down some.  Agree tho that he's a better UTM/short-yardage option than Spiller, and Choice may be too.

We can't count on Jackson this year tho for much more than the short-yardage stuff.  Spiller's the better outside edge RB.

View PostBADOLBEELZ, on 25 August 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Yes, this.

Fred Jackson is a shadow of the player he was last year and the man love for CJ Spiller......"hall of famer, once in a decade talent"....is getting a bit out of hand.

Bottom line:  you don't win games with the running game in the NFL.

It is about the QB.

If EJ is the man.....the way he has looked so far this pre-season.....the offense will be OK even if Spiller skins his knee or gets a shoulder boo-boo like when he fell on himself in Cleveland last year.

That said, the team needs to remember that RB's are a dime-a-dozen but you gotta' apply a dime once in a while.   If this team used more 4th-7th round picks and priority FA dollars on running backs instead of using a first rounder every 3-4 years they might just find another Fred Jackson.

You just need productive RB's....not superstars....to win in the NFL.

Agreed

You raise a good point too about Spiller's durability.  We shall see.

View PostJerry Jabber, on 25 August 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

The Bills will miss Levitre this year at LG as he was good at opening holes in the run game and getting to the 2nd level to take on defenders. IMO, I hope the Bills use their 1st round pick on a solid LT and move Glenn over to LG (as Mike Mayock suggested). With Glenn's size, I feel he would easily be a pro-bowl Guard.



I agree. I know the Redskins had the #1 rush offense last year, but it looked like the exact same Bills defense was in there from a year ago. I would of hated to have seen the stats if RGIII played for a full half yesterday.

Yeah, when Grossman and White can tear your 1st-team D a new one, that is beyond concerning.

What caught my eye in watching the game was that the D players seemed to be really dejected and downtrodden about midway thru the 2nd Q.

Marrone cannot afford to lose these guys that way.  If the first six games of the season start equal to or worse than last season's horrible D, then I have a hunch that's exactly what's going to happen and if it does, that really won't be good for Marrone or his tenure here.

#15 Coach Tuesday

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:16 PM

Zero second-level blocking.

But hey, at least we didn't overpay for a guard!  We win the Salary Bowl, congratulations are in order.

#16 dascottbills28

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:24 PM

View Postenlightener, on 25 August 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

since week 1 all we do is hand the ball off, the RB runs a little off tackle and gets dragged down after a yard, maybe on a good run we get 3.   The skins seemed to get 8 yards per carry or so.  Whats with our run game?
With the talent that we do have at running back and considering all of the other worries that we have, running back is toward the bottom of my list. I do agree with you that our running game hasnt been dynamic so far.

#17 enlightener

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:25 PM

View PostCoach Tuesday, on 25 August 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Zero second-level blocking.

But hey, at least we didn't overpay for a guard!  We win the Salary Bowl, congratulations are in order.
but I don't see our rbs getting even close to breaking past the dline.  I also agree  spiller wont be getting 6.0 if hes our primary back. Personally id like to see him taken out on short yardage all together. especially goalline, this is freds domain.   Most of you have balmed this on levitre but with 4 returning starters and two sides to run to I don't see him as the reason.  the plays just look lame.  Hand off, run up middle. repeat.   Wow!

#18 frogger

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:30 PM

Jason Smith is available, maybe he would be a better LG.

#19 ddaryl

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:39 PM

View Postfrogger, on 25 August 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Jason Smith is available, maybe he would be a better LG.

signed NY Jets

#20 Mango

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:48 PM

Gailey's failure as a HC was his lack of control over the defensive side of the ball, and failure to upgrade the QB position. His offensive scheming was right on the money, he created something out of nothing. He is a good OC. We will see some growing pains with EJ and Hackett.

More so than EJ, Marrone's career may be more dependent on Hackett's success. He was a bold pick for OC. Marrone cannot afford to fail at th QB position with Hackett in the drivers seat. He can get a pass on one or the other, but not both.