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Fred Jackson - Hard to sit the guy


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#1 Homey D. Clown

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:03 AM

I was watching the game yesterday thinking, Why is he not playing more when he clearly has the hot hand?  I have been a staunch supporter of CJ Spiller right from the beginning, including some heated support of the theory that he was never a luxury pick, but yesterday, just wasn't his day.  When this is the case, and a player is just getting shut down, they need to play Freddie as if he were the starter, he is very capable of playing at an elite level in this league, and looked very dangerous on the field, EVEN at 32 years old.  The guy can flat out ball, and like it or not, Hackett would be very wise to run him till he pukes as well.  It may not allow CJ to get his 2000 yards, but I guarantee they'll both win games for the Bills if a more democratic approach to the position is used.  It's as if Hackett was a Bizarro Gailey, ignoring the hot hand and sticking with CJ just because.  I hope this doesn't continue all season.

#2 old school

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:07 AM

Instead of CJ getting 2000 yards (didn't think it was going to happen anyway), how about both Fred and CJ for 1200 rush yards.

#3 YoloinOhio

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:52 AM

Fred-Ex is the heart and soul of this team, and he leaves it all on the field. Can't say the same for Spiller. Not sure how much the recent life events he has had to endure are affecting him, but he looked jittery in the 1st half and couldn't get anything going, granted the O-line was not giving him much to work with. I don't know why they didn't call better plays for him - maybe Hackett needs to get on the phone with Chan because that was one thing Chan did well. Overall, Fred had the hot hand and he also blocked realllly well.

Edited by YoloInTheBlo, 09 September 2013 - 08:52 AM.


#4 JR in Pittsburgh

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:54 AM

While I agree with the OP, I have a feeling that Marrone and co. were thinking that Spiller has home run potential. Keep feeding the guy, and he could break one for 80 yards.

But I still agree that they should have gone to Fred much earlier.

#5 The Big Cat

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:04 AM

Fred Jackson served as a great control group yesterday for demonstrating that Hackett was NOT to blame.

I mentioned in another thread that seams didn't magically open for FredEx, though someone countered that they did, saying the Pats* keyed on CJ.

But from where I sat, execution cost us the game, Freddy helped show that. CJ not finding the gap, penalties and drops, and NOT playcalling, was the difference.

#6 FireChan

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

With Fred, it's a 7 yard gain or a 5 yard gain. With CJ it's a 2 yard gain, -2 yard gain, or a 30 yard gain. Consistency and be able to get yards out of nothing is why Fred is a better traditional back.

#7 zow2

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

Fred is still the man.  Clearly he is the better runner between the tackles.  He's moving forward all the time and doesn't get tripped up by arm tackles like CJ.  Spiller is explosive and needs to be put in better positions to be explosive.  Based on yesterday, Chan was justified last year in saying that "Fred needs the ball too".

#8 thurst44

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:20 AM

View PostYoloInTheBlo, on 09 September 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Fred-Ex is the heart and soul of this team, and he leaves it all on the field. Can't say the same for Spiller. Not sure how much the recent life events he has had to endure are affecting him, but he looked jittery in the 1st half and couldn't get anything going, granted the O-line was not giving him much to work with. I don't know why they didn't call better plays for him - maybe Hackett needs to get on the phone with Chan because that was one thing Chan did well. Overall, Fred had the hot hand and he also blocked realllly well.
Personally, I don't think it's a question of heart...both FJ & CJ seem to have passion and motor to spare.  I'm more worried that something seemed out-of-sync/broken with CJ...the handoffs from EJ to CJ seemed awkward and it felt like one or the other was telegraphing every run.  But then, I'm not an expert and could be seeing something not there.  Hopefully CJ just had a bad game.  Honestly, I liked the way Marrone/Hackett mixed FJ in as a counterpoint, and continued to try to get the big play from CJ.  CJ just wasn't making it work.

#9 YoloinOhio

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:22 AM

View Postthurst44, on 09 September 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Personally, I don't think it's a question of heart...both FJ & CJ seem to have passion and motor to spare.  I'm more worried that something seemed out-of-sync/broken with CJ...the handoffs from EJ to CJ seemed awkward and it felt like one or the other was telegraphing every run.  But then, I'm not an expert and could be seeing something not there.  Hopefully CJ just had a bad game.  Honestly, I liked the way Marrone/Hackett mixed FJ in as a counterpoint, and continued to try to get the big play from CJ.  CJ just wasn't making it work.
I have to think that some of the EJ/CJ out-of-synch stuff is because they both missed a lot of camp and games in the PS. Whereas Fred has missed no time and actually played quite a bit in the PS. Hopefully they will all start to gel!

#10 JR in Pittsburgh

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:25 AM

View PostThe Big Cat, on 09 September 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Fred Jackson served as a great control group yesterday for demonstrating that Hackett was NOT to blame.

I mentioned in another thread that seams didn't magically open for FredEx, though someone countered that they did, saying the Pats* keyed on CJ.

But from where I sat, execution cost us the game, Freddy helped show that. CJ not finding the gap, penalties and drops, and NOT playcalling, was the difference.

Great point.

#11 Meatloaf Sandwich

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:29 AM

CJ had a bad game and Fred stepped up. This doesn't mean bench CJ or limit him at all.

#12 YoloinOhio

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:31 AM

Overall, we have a dynamic 1-2 punch at RB when in synch. Did you watch the Giants last night? They have 0 good RBs and were embarrassed. I am excited to have 2 very good RBs, one which is a home run threat and one that will pound the ball. Both are talented and motivated.

#13 FireChan

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:32 AM

View PostMeatloaf Sandwich, on 09 September 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

CJ had a bad game and Fred stepped up. This doesn't mean bench CJ or limit him at all.

Except for yesterday. I mean, when a player is doing awful, you don't let him continue being awful over and over again right? If this was Chan and Fred, half of this board would be flying off the handle.

#14 kdiggz

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:51 AM

I think Fred needs to be the starter.  CJ is a change of pace back and someone that can attack the corner.  He's not an every down back like Fred (Fred runs hard between the tackles, good pass blocker, etc).  Start Fred, bring in CJ and run draws and screen plays for him, bring Fred back in to get the tough yards.  We have 2 good RB's, use them!

#15 MOFO

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:54 AM

Does anyone remember if they lined up in the back field at the same time?  Would think this would cause some match up problems...

#16 bowery4

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:09 AM

View PostMOFO, on 09 September 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Does anyone remember if they lined up in the back field at the same time?  Would think this would cause some match up problems...
No they didn't. :thumbdown: and yes it would. I also didn't see Frank Summers in the game. CJ can use a lead blocker (actually so can Fred) and this is a mistake. The I formation worked well last year as well as some spread formations. You design things to the strengths of your players, they didn't do it in this game plan, IMO. The run plays yesterday especially to CJ were poorly called, he does need space or to get around the corner. He can run off tackle but not all of the time :doh:. He did look off his game too, hope he doesn't have a MD type of season (in light of his last couple of weeks).

Edited by bowery4, 09 September 2013 - 10:13 AM.


#17 hondo in seattle

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:10 AM

Freddy is a team captain for a reason.

#18 Dorkington

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:11 AM

View PostThe Big Cat, on 09 September 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Fred Jackson served as a great control group yesterday for demonstrating that Hackett was NOT to blame.

I mentioned in another thread that seams didn't magically open for FredEx, though someone countered that they did, saying the Pats* keyed on CJ.

But from where I sat, execution cost us the game, Freddy helped show that. CJ not finding the gap, penalties and drops, and NOT playcalling, was the difference.

Hackett should recognize where his RBs strengths are. CJ doesn't make 3 yards in a pile, running into a stacked box. Fred can. CJ needs to have space, and a spread field. They just need to be utilized a bit differently.

#19 BillsWatch

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:20 AM

View Postbowery4, on 09 September 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

No they didn't. :thumbdown: and yes it would. I also didn't see Frank Summers in the game. CJ can use a lead blocker (actually so can Fred) and this is a mistake. The I formation worked well last year as well as some spread formations. You design things to the strengths of your players, they didn't do it in this game plan, IMO. The run plays yesterday especially to CJ were poorly called, he does need space or to get around the corner. He can run off tackle but not all of the time :doh:. He did look off his game too, hope he doesn't have a MD type of season (in light of his last couple of weeks).

Last year's blocking scheme was better for Spilller than the blocking scheme used in this game.  That scheme created holes and slant lanes that Spiller utilized to get his runs up the middle.  And it is the OC's responsibility to adjust plays to take advantage of whatever the defense was giving and he did not do that.

#20 GG

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:21 AM

I read that he's old & fat.