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"The Culture of Failure"


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#1 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:09 AM

I see Bucky Gleason is picking up some slack for Jerry Sullivan.  There hasn't been enough depressing stuff from him lately.

http://www.buffalone...ailure-20130912

So we are entering Week 2 of the season under the new regime and Bucky is already dropping the "F-bomb" (Failure).  I love how the local media goes out of it's way to remind everyone how moribund the Bills have been.  They don't even wait for things to go badly before Bucky or Sully reminds us about "13 years and counting."

Bucky apparently wants EJ Manuel to know what a dumpster fire this franchise has been.  No pressure, EJ, but when you drop back keep in mind how snake bit the team you are leading has been.  Never mind that you, your coaches and teammates have little to do with the Bills past record.  The Buffalo News will make sure you know that losing is in our DNA.

Coach Marrone says he wants to change the culture but the media never wants let the stink of failure fade around this team.  I'm no believer in crazy self-help crap like "The Secret" (Google it if you don't know what it is) but I do believe that pervasive negativity has a way of dragging everyone down.  If you keep thinking things will go wrong, they usually will.

You want players to win.  You want players to perform.  But you can't stop yourself from pulling the "FAILURE!!!" alarm two weeks into a new season. F**king ponderous.

PTR

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 13 September 2013 - 01:14 AM.


#2 Pilsner

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:17 AM

I'll drop some F-bombs.

Fortune, Fortitude, Formidable! This team is on the upswing. Let the sow Gleason wallow in his negativity. It shouldn't affect reality.

Edit: I read the article and disagree with Gleason about being "short on talent." There is enough talent but more experience is needed. Also maybe Gleason is not a sow.

Edited by Pilsner, 13 September 2013 - 01:41 AM.


#3 mannc

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:33 AM

View PostPromoTheRobot, on 13 September 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I see Bucky Gleason is picking up some slack for Jerry Sullivan.  There hasn't been enough depressing stuff from him lately.

http://www.buffalone...ailure-20130912

So we are entering Week 2 of the season under the new regime and Bucky is already dropping the "F-bomb" (Failure).  I love how the local media goes out of it's way to remind everyone how moribund the Bills have been.  They don't even wait for things to go badly before Bucky or Sully reminds us about "13 years and counting."

Bucky apparently wants EJ Manuel to know what a dumpster fire this franchise has been.  No pressure, EJ, but when you drop back keep in mind how snake bit the team you are leading has been.  Never mind that you, your coaches and teammates have little to do with the Bills past record.  The Buffalo News will make sure you know that losing is in our DNA.

Coach Marrone says he wants to change the culture but the media never wants let the stink of failure fade around this team.  I'm no believer in crazy self-help crap like "The Secret" (Google it if you don't know what it is) but I do believe that pervasive negativity has a way of dragging everyone down.  If you keep thinking things will go wrong, they usually will.

You want players to win.  You want players to perform.  But you can't stop yourself from pulling the "FAILURE!!!" alarm two weeks into a new season. F**king ponderous.

PTR
Are you kidding?   You don't think this franchise has had a culture of losing for the last 13 years?  Did you even read the article, or just the headline?  The point of the article is not that Manuel, Marrone et al are failures; his point is that they have to overcome an expectation and acceptance of failure that is embedded in a franchise that has known little else for a generation.  He contrasts that with expectations and history in New England.  How can you dispute any of it?

Edited by mannc, 13 September 2013 - 01:44 AM.


#4 ajzepp

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:41 AM

I don't know about you guys, but I'm sure glad that we have people in the media to let us know about how bad the team has been for the last 13 years. Maybe in the next article they can write about how water is wet.

#5 Dibs

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:13 AM

Illogical thought process through that article IMO.

He starts out showing how us Bills fans are used to losing.....and he's right.  His comments on EJ trying to rev up the crowd were likely spot on.  Us fans have been following loss after loss with no playoffs for 13 years........and Hell Yes, we just KNOW that we are going to lose the lead at the end of the game to the Pats & it will take a while of winning to stop naturally believing that that will be the case.

He then follows to suggest that the same mentality is endemic in the players.  The thing is though, the players haven't experienced loss after loss with no playoffs for 13 years.  In fact, a vast majority of our players have not seen 4 seasons with the Bills.....and over half of our starters have only seen 2 or less seasons with the team.

He could argue the logic of a loser mentality being run through the Bills system(which may or may not be the case)......but that would be a vastly different loser mentality to the one he describes for us fans.

In short, I see no reason for his comments apart from simply wanting to rev up people's emotions by calling the Bills losers.......but I guess that's just what the modern day media does.

#6 JM57

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:27 AM

View Post8and8Forever, on 13 September 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:


The Bills are losers.    Even since that fateful Jax playoff game in 1996, this franchise has found every way possible to screw up an NFL season.    That is 17 years, not 13.    The SB years are ancient history, like talking about Billy Shaw and Elbert Dubenion.    Until they start blowing people up and getting and attitude about it, most league insiders will rightly consider them losers.   Jarius Byrd is killing himself trying to get out of town, just as many did before him.   Why is that?
Probably because they won't pay him. Also because its a town with miserable weather and is full of cynical A-holes

#7 Whitewalker Merriman

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:33 AM

I'm reminded about the scene from "The Natural" where they do the self help seminar, while completely underestimating their best player.

#8 Keukasmallies

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:46 AM

So the media should just butt out of opinion pieces and stick to reporting fluff pieces like when a soon-to-be Bills player alights from his flight into town?  Personally, I want the sports writers and commentators to dig, expose, reflect, suggest, opine, and in all other ways "cover" their subject.  If today's piece pisses me off, maybe tomorrow's will be more to my liking.  I'll read 'em all then make my decisions.  Kinda' like when they report on political matters and other national news, eh?

#9 Beerball

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:53 AM

View PostPilsner, on 13 September 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

I'll drop some F-bombs.

Fortune, Fortitude, Formidable! This team is on the upswing. Let the sow Gleason wallow in his negativity. It shouldn't affect reality.

Edit: I read the article and disagree with Gleason about being "short on talent." There is enough talent but more experience is needed. Also maybe Gleason is not a sow.
It is a very shallow team at several positions, lack of depth likely hurt the team this season, but I agree with your upswing comment.

#10 Kipers Hair

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:17 AM

View PostJM57, on 13 September 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Probably because they won't pay him. Also because its a town with miserable weather and is full of cynical A-holes
  This, as painful as it might be, is the most honest assessment of the difficult situation before the franchise.  We don't reward our good players, the climate is simply not very good and the fans, while passionate, will turn on you quicker than a rabid dog.

#11 bowery4

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:22 AM

Clicky Gleason, just like his mentor. Efff them, they are losers. I really miss the Courier Express at times they wouldn't have done this type of **** to their readers.

#12 All_Pro_Bills

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:43 AM

I get the culture of failure thing but the Bills lost the game because they failed to make plays down the stretch on offense to hold or increase their lead and failed on defense to hold NE off the scoreboard.  They didn't lose because of some mental 'block' that kept them from winning.  The simply failed to make 'good' football plays while their experienced and veteran opponent did just that.  The team has a new coaching staff, a new system, a new QB, and its going to be a building process, not something that is going to happen overnight.  I saw some bad things last Sunday but I also saw some good things and its a question of taking the next step this Sunday where progress and improvement are evident.  To me that's Manuel taking the next step with Hackett adding more to his plate this Sunday and the defense (minus all the secondary injuries) installing and picking up more of Pettine's system.  A win would certainly be a sign of that happening.  If things come together as I suspect the Bills are going to be a pretty tough team to play against moving into the second half of the season.  

#13 GG

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:52 AM

I thought the article was spot on, except the baloney about the stadium being quiet. It was very loud and engaged. Gleason lost some credibility with that claim.

#14 Gordio

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:52 AM

View PostJM57, on 13 September 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:


Probably because they won't pay him. Also because its a town with miserable weather and is full of cynical A-holes

I really do not agree with you about the weather.  Take last week for example, Buffalo probably had the nicest football weather of any team hosting a game last week.  70 & sunny.  The weather gets played pretty hard here but Buffalo honestly has best climates for football in the league.  Watch NE games, they play in more miserable weather then anybody.  LIke last night.  It is either raining there or there playing in a wind storm or snow storm.  When was the last time you could remember the Bills played in a true snow storm at home.  Sunday once again , 70 & sunny, I will venture for the 2nd week in a row Orchard Park will be host to some of the nicest football weather around the league.

#15 TaskersGhost

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:54 AM

From the article:

“I don’t think it’s just with the team; it’s with everyone in the organization,” Marrone said. “I know that Russ Brandon has worked hard on that. We all have. It’s kind of like the, ‘Woe is me, here we go again’ situation. That’s not what we want.”

When your hiring practices in the front office, which spill over to coaching, aren't getting the job done it's because of the lack of talent, plain and simple.

This notion that somehow the team has to believe in itself is part of the core problem.  This isn't about BILL-ieving, it's about assembling the talent, both player wise as well as staff wise in the recruitment and coaching departments, to be able to get the job done.

So the front office perpetually fails, and what happens, every three or four years they trim off someone that's on the cusp of retirement anyway, probably because they're so involve personally at the top that they're not even capable of making sound hiring/firing decisions anymore.

It's really simple, when they have the talent, both coaching as well as players, then they'll win, period.

In the meantime, the very first thing that must be critically assessed and looked at is who keeps doing the hiring.  Get rid of them, hire someone that doesn't have the personal ties to all of the people with roots that are within a few hours of Buffalo, and things will change.

Until then, ....

#16 Coach Tuesday

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:00 AM

View PostTaskersGhost, on 13 September 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

From the article:

“I don’t think it’s just with the team; it’s with everyone in the organization,” Marrone said. “I know that Russ Brandon has worked hard on that. We all have. It’s kind of like the, ‘Woe is me, here we go again’ situation. That’s not what we want.”

When your hiring practices in the front office, which spill over to coaching, aren't getting the job done it's because of the lack of talent, plain and simple.

This notion that somehow the team has to believe in itself is part of the core problem.  This isn't about BILL-ieving, it's about assembling the talent, both player wise as well as staff wise in the recruitment and coaching departments, to be able to get the job done.

So the front office perpetually fails, and what happens, every three or four years they trim off someone that's on the cusp of retirement anyway, probably because they're so involve personally at the top that they're not even capable of making sound hiring/firing decisions anymore.

It's really simple, when they have the talent, both coaching as well as players, then they'll win, period.

In the meantime, the very first thing that must be critically assessed and looked at is who keeps doing the hiring.  Get rid of them, hire someone that doesn't have the personal ties to all of the people with roots that are within a few hours of Buffalo, and things will change.

Until then, ....

Meh.  Whaley picked a QB who looks like he is gonna be a good one.  It's the single most important thing that has happened to this team in more than a decade.  Let's see how that plays out before condemning everyone...

#17 CodeMonkey

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:50 AM

View PostPromoTheRobot, on 13 September 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I see Bucky Gleason is picking up some slack for Jerry Sullivan.  There hasn't been enough depressing stuff from him lately.

http://www.buffalone...ailure-20130912

So we are entering Week 2 of the season under the new regime and Bucky is already dropping the "F-bomb" (Failure).  I love how the local media goes out of it's way to remind everyone how moribund the Bills have been.  They don't even wait for things to go badly before Bucky or Sully reminds us about "13 years and counting."

Bucky apparently wants EJ Manuel to know what a dumpster fire this franchise has been.  No pressure, EJ, but when you drop back keep in mind how snake bit the team you are leading has been.  Never mind that you, your coaches and teammates have little to do with the Bills past record.  The Buffalo News will make sure you know that losing is in our DNA.

Coach Marrone says he wants to change the culture but the media never wants let the stink of failure fade around this team.  I'm no believer in crazy self-help crap like "The Secret" (Google it if you don't know what it is) but I do believe that pervasive negativity has a way of dragging everyone down.  If you keep thinking things will go wrong, they usually will.

You want players to win.  You want players to perform.  But you can't stop yourself from pulling the "FAILURE!!!" alarm two weeks into a new season. F**king ponderous.

PTR
Why do people get so upset with articles like this?
The facts are that the Bills have sucked for 13 years.  They have been in a perpetual "3 and out" state with coaches/players/FO during most of that time, including a new regime starting this season.  And they lost a very winnable game against a very weakened Pats* team in week one.  What do you expect them to write?  Unless they are paid by the Bills to write PR pieces for them, that's what I would expect.

There is one and only one sure fire way to stop the negative press ... win.

Edited by CodeMonkey, 13 September 2013 - 07:51 AM.


#18 ScottLaw

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:57 AM

View PostPromoTheRobot, on 13 September 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I see Bucky Gleason is picking up some slack for Jerry Sullivan.  There hasn't been enough depressing stuff from him lately.

http://www.buffalone...ailure-20130912

So we are entering Week 2 of the season under the new regime and Bucky is already dropping the "F-bomb" (Failure).  I love how the local media goes out of it's way to remind everyone how moribund the Bills have been.  They don't even wait for things to go badly before Bucky or Sully reminds us about "13 years and counting."

Bucky apparently wants EJ Manuel to know what a dumpster fire this franchise has been.  No pressure, EJ, but when you drop back keep in mind how snake bit the team you are leading has been.  Never mind that you, your coaches and teammates have little to do with the Bills past record.  The Buffalo News will make sure you know that losing is in our DNA.

Coach Marrone says he wants to change the culture but the media never wants let the stink of failure fade around this team.  I'm no believer in crazy self-help crap like "The Secret" (Google it if you don't know what it is) but I do believe that pervasive negativity has a way of dragging everyone down.  If you keep thinking things will go wrong, they usually will.

You want players to win.  You want players to perform.  But you can't stop yourself from pulling the "FAILURE!!!" alarm two weeks into a new season. F**king ponderous.

PTR

Did you read it?

It was actually a well written article that holds a lot of truth. What exactly did he say that was wrong? The Bills need to find a way to break through the mentality of losing.

View PostCodeMonkey, on 13 September 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Why do people get so upset with articles like this?
The facts are that the Bills have sucked for 13 years.  They have been in a perpetual "3 and out" state with coaches/players/FO during most of that time, including a new regime starting this season.  And they lost a very winnable game against a very weakened Pats* team in week one.  What do you expect them to write?  Unless they are paid by the Bills to write PR pieces for them, that's what I would expect.

There is one and only one sure fire way to stop the negative press ... win.

This about sums it up. What do you want the guy to write? The team has been a disaster for 13 years and counting and they started off the season with another L.

Edited by ScottLaw, 13 September 2013 - 08:02 AM.


#19 BillsFanNC

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:57 AM

He's right about the lack of passion in the fans.  I sat in the Kelly club and 90% of the fans sat on their hands in the 4th quarter.  The 12th man, for the reasons it went up on the wall in the first place, is dead.

#20 JohnC

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:10 AM

View PostTaskersGhost, on 13 September 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

From the article:

“I don’t think it’s just with the team; it’s with everyone in the organization,” Marrone said. “I know that Russ Brandon has worked hard on that. We all have. It’s kind of like the, ‘Woe is me, here we go again’ situation. That’s not what we want.”

When your hiring practices in the front office, which spill over to coaching, aren't getting the job done it's because of the lack of talent, plain and simple.

This notion that somehow the team has to believe in itself is part of the core problem.  This isn't about BILL-ieving, it's about assembling the talent, both player wise as well as staff wise in the recruitment and coaching departments, to be able to get the job done.

So the front office perpetually fails, and what happens, every three or four years they trim off someone that's on the cusp of retirement anyway, probably because they're so involve personally at the top that they're not even capable of making sound hiring/firing decisions anymore.

It's really simple, when they have the talent, both coaching as well as players, then they'll win, period.

In the meantime, the very first thing that must be critically assessed and looked at is who keeps doing the hiring.  Get rid of them, hire someone that doesn't have the personal ties to all of the people with roots that are within a few hours of Buffalo, and things will change.

Until then, ....

What you are suggesting is the same thing you are criticizing. You want this newly installed staff to be jettissoned just when they started. Criticizing Marrone, Gibbons, Whaley etc because they come from a particular regiion is nonsensical. What made this franchise parochial was the owner and his utter incompetence. He is now out of the picture. Marrone just started as a HC and presided over one game. You now want to get rid of him. That is ridiculous! You repeatedly say that Whaley was associated with the prior regime as if he is contaminated beyond repair. How about judging him on his performance as a boss, and not as a subordinate?

The Bills recent history is a disaster. No one can dispute that. But if we carry out your logic then there will be no future success because there has been a past  history of failures. That's nonsensical.

I'm not someone who has a history of giving a reflexive optimistic response. I'm not one of the lunatics who blames the troubles of this franchise on the media and its battered fans. The Bills are rebuilding and will be going through the struggles all rebuilding teams go through. It's going to take time whether you like it or not. If EJ turns out to be a legitimate franchise qb then the prospects for success are more assured. If not, then back to the drawing board.

My criticism of your position is that you are making your judments on the past apply to the present. That is unfair. If you don't like this draft then criticize this draft and don't merge it with the mediocrity of the prior Nix drafts. If you don't collectively like the free agent pickups this year, don''t skew your judgment with the prior free agent pickups.

If you want an instant turn-around you are being naive. It doesn't work that way. The roster is being turned over. It takes time. There is no other way around it. Replacing the staff, as you suggest, will set this bedraggled franchise back further, not advance it.

Edited by JohnC, 13 September 2013 - 08:15 AM.