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Why didn't we tag Levitre instead of Byrd?


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#1 st pete gogolak

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:37 PM

I know there have been about a thousand threads on Levitre and about a thousand on Byrd but I don't remember this coming up for discussion.  If it has, I apologze.  The Bills knew that they could tag either Levitre or Byrd and were going to lose one of them.  Why tag Byrd and not Levitre?  I think they are both quality players but continuiity and cohesion are supposed to be critical to offensive line play.  It would have been sweet going into the season with another year of an OLine of Glenn, Levitre, Wood, Urbik and Pears/Hairston.  I assume its easier to plug a free safety into a lineup than it is a guard.  Second, and more important, there was at least hypothetically a legit replacement for Byrd on the roster - A. Williams.  That clearly wasn't true for Levitre.  On top of that, the Bills didn't sign a vet FA guard or draft one but do draft a safety in the fourth round.  This doesn't even mention the Eugene Parker issue.  I'm not trying to look at this with hindsight but seriously, what was the thinking behind tagging Byrd?

#2 Gugny

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:39 PM

To tag any offensive lineman, you need to pay them tackle money. Guards are not worth tackle money. It's one of the flaws in the franchise tag system.

#3 jboyst62

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

We really don't need 200 Byrd posts. He will be back in a few weeks, maybe less ans it will be amazing how fast we forget about this.  Remember Mario's wrist injury? Skelton for Mario?  Yeah...same thing.  I would rather have let Levitre walk.  He was vocal he was leaving.

View PostGugny, on 18 September 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

To tag any offensive lineman, you need to pay them tackle money. Guards are not worth tackle money. It's one of the flaws in the franchise tag system.
Well, Tennessee disagrees with you...

#4 Carey Bender

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:04 PM

View Postjboyst62, on 18 September 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Well, Tennessee disagrees with you...
even that contract isn't close to tackle money, Clady just got 5 yrs $52.5M compared to Levitre's 6 years $46.8

#5 NoSaint

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

View PostCarey Bender, on 18 September 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

even that contract isn't close to tackle money, Clady just got 5 yrs $52.5M compared to Levitre's 6 years $46.8
Yup.

And apparently levitres knee was not in great shape either. A possible concern.

#6 jboyst62

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostCarey Bender, on 18 September 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

even that contract isn't close to tackle money, Clady just got 5 yrs $52.5M compared to Levitre's 6 years $46.8
what is the average of the top five tackles?  Or ten or whatever?  I figure it'd be close. I had been guessing, would be surprised if its far off.

#7 Jamie Nails

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

Speaking of, has anyone watched any Titans football? How is Andy doing?

#8 NoSaint

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:25 PM

View Postjboyst62, on 18 September 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

what is the average of the top five tackles?  Or ten or whatever?  I figure it'd be close. I had been guessing, would be surprised if its far off.

I believe it was 9 and change, shy of 10

#9 Carey Bender

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:28 PM

$9.66M for oline http://www.nfl.com/n...3-cap-near-121m

#10 Webster Guy

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:29 PM

Go watch Colin Brown's performance in the last two games and tell me Levitre isn't worth having on this team.

I watched every snap he took last game (2nd time around) and he was getting steamrolled consistently.   Specifically watch the 3rd quarter, EJ was getting flushed out or pressured EVERY snap by that Rookie pushing Colin around.

We could have afforded him easily (yes i said it, go look at our cap numbers) and we made a mistake by letting him go.   Especially with a developing rookie QB who needs to feel OK that his blindside isn't being protected by cheap replacements.

Stupid move.  In hindsight, the team would have signed Levitre (no tag), then done a sign and trade with Byrd and grabbed a 2nd round 2014 draft pick and another conditional one.      

Our defense is playing just fine without Byrd but our O line misses Levitre badly right now.

#11 billsfan89

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:32 PM

The team clearly felt it was much easier to find a guard than it is to find a FS (Let alone the cost difference in the tags). And considering Nix's semi-success with finding guys like Pears, Urbik and to a lesser extent Reinhart maybe they thought that the team would find another player and plug him in for cheap and the drop in production wouldn't be too bad.

Also weren't the Bills making offers to a couple of guards in free agency (Vazquez who signed with Denver comes to mind) so they clearly thought they needed someone to replace Andy. I can't blame the Bills for wanting to keep Byrd over Levitre considering the replace-ability of guards compared to FS.

But what I do fault them for is not going out and getting a guard in the 4th or 5th round (We didn't need two safties there esp when you tag a guy at FS) and then signing another veteran.

Edited by billsfan89, 18 September 2013 - 10:34 PM.


#12 matter2003

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:59 PM

View Postjboyst62, on 18 September 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

We really don't need 200 Byrd posts. He will be back in a few weeks, maybe less ans it will be amazing how fast we forget about this.  Remember Mario's wrist injury? Skelton for Mario?  Yeah...same thing.  I would rather have let Levitre walk.  He was vocal he was leaving.


Well, Tennessee disagrees with you...

Chris Johnson still averaging under 4 YPC

#13 QCity

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:59 PM

It's never been about "one or the other."  You also don't sign players simply "because you can afford it." And you don't sign the 10th-15th best guard in the league to a $47M contract.

Why is this so difficult for fans to understand?

#14 bbb

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:04 PM

View PostCarey Bender, on 18 September 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:


Here's the answer.

#15 Dragonborn10

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:28 AM

Perhaps you have heard it is a passing league...just about any stiff can pass block for 2.5 seconds with Wood and Glenn opposite them and a back to chip...the league only runs the ball as a tool to use play action...Minnesota could run for 3000 yards this year and finish last in their division..

#16 zazie

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:28 AM

View PostWebster Guy, on 18 September 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

Go watch Colin Brown's performance in the last two games and tell me Levitre isn't worth having on this team.

I watched every snap he took last game (2nd time around) and he was getting steamrolled consistently.   Specifically watch the 3rd quarter, EJ was getting flushed out or pressured EVERY snap by that Rookie pushing Colin around.

We could have afforded him easily (yes i said it, go look at our cap numbers) and we made a mistake by letting him go.   Especially with a developing rookie QB who needs to feel OK that his blindside isn't being protected by cheap replacements.

Stupid move.  In hindsight, the team would have signed Levitre (no tag), then done a sign and trade with Byrd and grabbed a 2nd round 2014 draft pick and another conditional one.   

Our defense is playing just fine without Byrd but our O line misses Levitre badly right now.

we really had no choice, we had to franchise one or the other.  LEvitre always did say he was going to test the FA market, we chose to frachise Byrd instead.  :Levitre wanted to leave, that simple.  He could have signed a long term deal the prior summer IIRC, and preferred to play and risk injury, through the last year of his contract, to get to FA.

He did play, and never missed a game for the Bills I don't think.  

I do not think the FO did anything wroing in the case of Levitre, he was willing to risk the last year of his contract to get free, and then he was free.

In the case of Byrd I actually also like the FO stance.  If Byrd would man up and suit up (like Levitre did), it would be better, of course.

#17 Buffalo Barbarian

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:19 AM

cuz the FO is stupid

#18 BILLriant

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:56 AM

Byrd gets interceptions...turnovers are much better than a quality blocker, and harder to acquire. The front office didn't know that Byrd was going to pull this.

#19 ganesh

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:30 AM

View Postst pete gogolak, on 18 September 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

I know there have been about a thousand threads on Levitre and about a thousand on Byrd but I don't remember this coming up for discussion.  If it has, I apologze.  The Bills knew that they could tag either Levitre or Byrd and were going to lose one of them.  Why tag Byrd and not Levitre?  I think they are both quality players but continuiity and cohesion are supposed to be critical to offensive line play.  It would have been sweet going into the season with another year of an OLine of Glenn, Levitre, Wood, Urbik and Pears/Hairston.  I assume its easier to plug a free safety into a lineup than it is a guard.  Second, and more important, there was at least hypothetically a legit replacement for Byrd on the roster - A. Williams.  That clearly wasn't true for Levitre.  On top of that, the Bills didn't sign a vet FA guard or draft one but do draft a safety in the fourth round.  This doesn't even mention the Eugene Parker issue.  I'm not trying to look at this with hindsight but seriously, what was the thinking behind tagging Byrd?

One was a Pro-Bowler and one of the best at his position.  The other was a good player, but definitely not one of the best at his position in the league.

#20 KRT88

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:37 AM

View PostCarey Bender, on 18 September 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

even that contract isn't close to tackle money, Clady just got 5 yrs $52.5M compared to Levitre's 6 years $46.8

had the Bills tried to Lock up Levitre before last season started, that figure might have been more like 5 years 28-32 million and that would have been worth the price.

instead we sit on your butts and do nothing and lose a great LG.