Jump to content


The last play of the game vs. Panthers


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 bbb

bbb

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,723 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:58 PM

Didn't see this mentioned this week.  Sorry if I missed it

I don't know how much of this got picked up on TV, and I forgot to DVR the game...........But, on the last play, we had 5 guys, I believe, around the 5 yardline area - including Stevie and Lawson.  The other 5 or 6 guys were on the line of scrimmage.

Then, when the ball was snapped, all their receivers ran out and there was about 30 yards of uncovered space.  I have no idea why Newton didn't just immediately throw it to any of them, instead of getting sacked.

It seemed like a really bad defense to me.  What am I missing?  They had so much room where they wouldn't have even been touched until about the 15 yard line.  A pitchback or two would have been an easy touchdown.

#2 JR in Pittsburgh

JR in Pittsburgh

    No Mercy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,608 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:17 PM

Not having rewatched it, I bet the LBs were back in that open area. When the receivers ran past them, that's probably when they knew it was a Hail Mary and blitzed. Just a guess based on my recollection and how the play ended up.

#3 GG

GG

    Exit 151

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,935 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:19 PM

100% of the game is half mental. The QB is set on throwing the hail mary and when you throw an unorthodox defense at it most QBs will take a split second longer to process that, which is enough time to sack him. Note that most of the OL was also dumbfounded on the play, which helped a lot.

I think this play was analyzed on these pages before.

#4 bbb

bbb

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,723 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:22 PM

View PostJR in Pittsburgh, on 20 September 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Not having rewatched it, I bet the LBs were back in that open area. When the receivers ran past them, that's probably when they knew it was a Hail Mary and blitzed. Just a guess based on my recollection and how the play ended up.

It could be, but I didn't see that.  I just saw 5 receivers running unimpeded with nobody within 20-30 yards of them.

#5 Rubes

Rubes

    The Doctor of Football...is IN

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,113 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:34 PM

The thing I was surprised about is that EJ didn't get flagged for taking off his helmet on the field after the TD. We could have been kicking off from the 20.


#6 Dibs

Dibs

    Myth Buster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,066 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:42 PM

I just rewatched it.

Bills rushed with 5 at the line(not sure who) and sent 6 back very deep.
Panthers sent 4 WRs downfield.

Newton looked like he had just enough time to throw early.....likely connecting with a WR at around the Bills 45.

I would assume that the WRs were not going to be looking back for a pass at that point as they were hell bent on getting to the end zone quickly......and had one been assigned for early release, he would have 40+ yards and 6 defenders between him and the end zone.


I don't know how it is normally played on Defense.  How many does one usually rush?  Considering the result, rushing 5 seemed the correct number lol.

#7 vincec

vincec

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,881 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:42 AM

I think it was a pretty good call.  The offense is not expecting blitz and is trying to throw the ball to the end zone which means that the QB needs 4 or 5 solid seconds for the receivers to get there.  They will not usually plan to throw it short and run in if the QB can reach the end zone in the air.  I think the percentages are much better for a "Hail Mary" than a "Stanford Band" type of play.  No way the QB gets the time he needs with a 5 man rush.

The primary risk, IMO, is that the QB scrambles to get the time he needs and then you only have 6 men in coverage.  Newton did try to do this but couldn't get away.

#8 Kelly the Dog

Kelly the Dog

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,409 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:13 AM

I think it had to do with distance. To me, it was a brilliant call. There arent a lot of QBs who have the arm strength to just wing it easily 60 yards. Newton is one of them. Why let him set and have a three man rush against 5 lineman and then chuck it up and hope for the best. Why not blitz a LB or two and force him to throw faster than he wants. It's not 40 yards where he can just chuck it, or pass short and expect a lateral or two to get a guy free. At 60 yards away, against that QB, it was a great call and one you don't see much but should. Don't let him just wait, and cock and throw. Make him throw early or sack him, which they did. I loved that call by Pettine.

#9 Simon

Simon

    Dirty Player

  • Global Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,656 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:30 AM

If I remember right they flipped Mario after they'd set, and when the OLine slanted at him they slipped Kiko in the back door.
Newton never knew he was coming or he would have done exactly what you suggested. But with only sending one extra rusher the Bills didn't really compromise the integrity of their umbrella and even if Newton does get it out he's throwing it in the middle of the field where that play is just going to die a slow, ugly death.

#10 bbb

bbb

    UDFA

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,723 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:57 AM

View PostSimon, on 21 September 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

If I remember right they flipped Mario after they'd set, and when the OLine slanted at him they slipped Kiko in the back door.
Newton never knew he was coming or he would have done exactly what you suggested. But with only sending one extra rusher the Bills didn't really compromise the integrity of their umbrella and even if Newton does get it out he's throwing it in the middle of the field where that play is just going to die a slow, ugly death.

Next time the Bills are in this position, if they put all 6 of those guys back by the goal line, if I were the other team, I would definitely throw it to one of those guys 20 or so yards downfield.

That just looked scary to me.  5 wide open guys, and knowing Stevie and maybe even some other offensive guys were back there...........I'd take my chances with a full head of steam and a few blockers against those 6 - before trying a Hail Mary.

#11 Coach Tuesday

Coach Tuesday

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,363 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:39 AM

View Postbbb, on 21 September 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Next time the Bills are in this position, if they put all 6 of those guys back by the goal line, if I were the other team, I would definitely throw it to one of those guys 20 or so yards downfield.

That just looked scary to me.  5 wide open guys, and knowing Stevie and maybe even some other offensive guys were back there...........I'd take my chances with a full head of steam and a few blockers against those 6 - before trying a Hail Mary.

But not too many teams (I would think) practice that kind of play, which would require multiple laterals back and forth among WRs.  They practice it (occasionally) on special teams, but it's not in an offensive playbook.  By contrast, they do practice the hail mary jump ball.  If you're gonna call it, it's gotta be something you've practiced.

Edited by Coach Tuesday, 21 September 2013 - 05:39 AM.


#12 Nanker

Nanker

    Blls Nation Unite!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,869 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:15 AM

It worked. We won.

#13 Woody

Woody

    Probation

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 46 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:32 AM

I heard Panthers Coach Ron Riviera on Sirius leading up to their next game. Pat Kirwan asked him about the 6 sacks in the game...what were the reasons?...the QB, was it on the line, the D, etc.? He started with that one and said the Bills tried to trick them...."well, not trick us...they flat out blitzed." He said it was one of those things coaches always sit around and talk about: "What would happen if someone ever did that?" ...but then no one would ever really try it.  He said after what he saw...maybe more people WOULD try it now, and laughed.  It was - in technical terms - a ballsy call. We've really got some kind of coach on D boys and girls. :thumbsup:

#14 Ozymandius

Ozymandius

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,771 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:49 AM

View Postbbb, on 21 September 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Next time the Bills are in this position, if they put all 6 of those guys back by the goal line, if I were the other team, I would definitely throw it to one of those guys 20 or so yards downfield.

That just looked scary to me.  5 wide open guys, and knowing Stevie and maybe even some other offensive guys were back there...........I'd take my chances with a full head of steam and a few blockers against those 6 - before trying a Hail Mary.

This will probably be the last time we use that defense, at least this season.  If an opponent sees it coming, you're right, it's probably a dangerous play.  But to put it out on the field for the first time, when it's certain to be a surprise for the opponent because nobody else does it that way, was brilliant.

#15 Nanker

Nanker

    Blls Nation Unite!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,869 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:58 AM

Hopefully, we won't be seeing any other teams in the Hail Mary situation for the rest of the year. They'll just be sitting on their benches with sweat soaked towels draped over their hang-dog necks and heads trying to figure out where things went so wrong for them, while EJ or Tuel are out there taking a knee on successive snaps while The Bills are in the Victory Formation!

#16 matter2003

matter2003

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,394 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:08 AM

Why complete a 30 yard pass with 8 defenders between you and the goalline 30 yards away with no chance of getting there? Only shot was to throw to endzone and Bills didn't allow the time for that

#17 Doc

Doc

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,639 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:23 AM

View PostRubes, on 20 September 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

The thing I was surprised about is that EJ didn't get flagged for taking off his helmet on the field after the TD. We could have been kicking off from the 20.
You can remove your helmet on the field between downs.

#18 BillnutinHouston

BillnutinHouston

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,779 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 09:01 AM

View PostWoody, on 21 September 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

I heard Panthers Coach Ron Riviera on Sirius leading up to their next game. Pat Kirwan asked him about the 6 sacks in the game...what were the reasons?...the QB, was it on the line, the D, etc.? He started with that one and said the Bills tried to trick them...."well, not trick us...they flat out blitzed." He said it was one of those things coaches always sit around and talk about: "What would happen if someone ever did that?" ...but then no one would ever really try it.  He said after what he saw...maybe more people WOULD try it now, and laughed.  It was - in technical terms - a ballsy call. We've really got some kind of coach on D boys and girls. :thumbsup:
What Rivera was really saying, without saying the words, is that HE got tricked.   Love it.

#19 microscopes

microscopes

    RFA

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 751 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 09:23 AM

Here you go.

The original poster is right. There was no one on the Carolina receivers at all. That's a bit scary.

Posted Image

I never really looked at this play, but it's actually quite impressive.

Pettine overloaded the right side of the line, and lined up Kiko on a WR.

Posted Image

Then when the ball was snapped, the RB moved to the right side to help block the overload, and Kiko moved off of his WR and into a pass rusher.

Posted Image

And with the RB on the right side covering the overload, and Kiko off of his WR and blitzing, it's just him running full speed past a slow OT.

Posted Image

Game over.

Edited by microscopes, 21 September 2013 - 09:23 AM.


#20 NoSaint

NoSaint

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,416 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 09:23 AM

View Postmatter2003, on 21 September 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

Why complete a 30 yard pass with 8 defenders between you and the goalline 30 yards away with no chance of getting there? Only shot was to throw to endzone and Bills didn't allow the time for that

The ops point is it was only 6 defenders and atleast one was a wide receiver, not a sure tackling safety. Valid concerns, but I disagree with his line that you just lateral for an easy touchdown. Having receivers engage in an option play 40 yards downfield is never an easy or gimme type play.